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Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





Not Online!!! wrote:

Verifyable hard fact is that now there's a chilling effect going on, are you also denying that?


Flick is still making his w40k artwork without a care in the world, so that "chilling effect proof" is clearly not applying to everyone.

Just a handful of people freaking out and making buzz on the internet so far. MilkandcookieTW joined the bandwagon as well.


So yes it is on GW's shoulders to a large part.

Should Alfabusa atleast have tried to contact GW? Probably, at the very least its parody so he would've been quite well protected.


Sure, GW is responsible for Alfabusa profiting of their IP without their permission and refusing even to contact them first.

And don't try to sugarcoat it : Alfabusa totally SHOULD have tried to contact GW first. Even before he started to profit from using their IP, actually, because the old guidelines were still there and didn't give him "tolerance or permission" to do it. He knows it, you know it, we know it.


Otoh, why should he bother with GW? GW has and we know this from the past a tendency to artificially expand court times to just use its financial weight to kill off opposition despite they technically being in the right?


And yet so far, the actual reports we have of GW contacting content creators have been nothing as dire as it seems in some "doom prophecy" videos in youtube asking you to send a letter to complaint service.

It's litterally weaponizing their fanbase against something they don't like in the guidelines, even though they -know- what they have been profiting of for so long before.

The "it's free advertisement !" argument is frankly an excuse, here. Because, let's be honest on Alfabusa's case : his videos don't really push his fanbase into buying GW products, here. More like the video game Stellaris from Paradox...

Same for MilkandcookieTW who put out a video about this asking his community to send a boycott letter to GW : he's rather focused on the video game Total War Warhammer, not the miniatures themselves. Yet he used the exact same arguments seen on this topic (meaning doom prophecy from the guidelines and vague reporting of what "happened" to other content creators like Absolutely Nothing), and most of his fanbase doesn't try to go any further. Why would they ? Their favorite youtuber is saying this is wrong, so he must be right.

The funny part is that most of their community who want to send a letter saying they won't buy GW products until they change their "zero tolerance stance" certainly never bought GW products anyway (aka miniatures and books). One of the comments says the guy canceled its Total War Warhammer 3 pre order to protest. LOL.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2021/08/03 08:04:20


 
   
Made in fi
Ye Lord of The End Times (and a good guy)





Not Online!!! wrote:

Otoh, why should he bother with GW? GW has and we know this from the past a tendency to artificially expand court times to just use its financial weight to kill off opposition despite they technically being in the right?


GW hasn't taken TTS for court for years. Nothing has changed since TTS started so why you even assume they were going to go to court now?

Their policy hasn't changed since TTS started.

2021 painted/bought: 538/575 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

 BaronIveagh wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:


If season 1 of a show is slow but OK I might watch if my friends tell me season 2 is good.

If episode one of low effort fan gak includes homophobia forgive me if I don’t feel the need to continue or revisit it “oh it’s better now it just has the dancing charicatures and they took out that one joke so it’s fine now” nahhhhh “chief” it was just bad and if that was what they saw fit to put out to begin with the rest of it can get in the bin. Just not worth my time. I dipped into other episodes and it’s boring and unfun as well as the homophobic content so there are other things I can occupy my time with YOLO YMMV etc.


So, in a nutshell, you didn't actually watch it, but they had a bad joke once, so its ok to hate them for opposing GW.


Congratulations on not remotely summarising what I said but instead attempting derision and agenda-pushing! I filled my bad faith bingo card!

I don’t spend my time on consuming things that are homophobic. I watched enough to know this wasn’t worth my time, and sacked it off. There, summarised more neatly for you. Almost like my very first post did. The whole stance vs/pro GW is moot, and I didn’t make or mention one.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in ru
Screaming Shining Spear




Russia, Moscow

Sarouan wrote:
Alfabusa totally SHOULD have tried to contact GW first. Even before he started to profit from using their IP, actually, because the old guidelines were still there

Old guidelines:

Please do not contact us asking for specific permissions. We do not give express permissions except in respect of licences (see Licensing below) but as long as you’re celebrating the hobby in accordance with this policy, we are unlikely to object to your use of our intellectual property.

In the world of GW, there were only 1s and 0s; a comedian profitting by making jokes about their IP is beyond their system.

And by the way, a comedian, parody maker, in my view, can make any kind of lowbrow jokes. It doesn't matter how crappy you think they are, if people laugh, they did their work fine - there are way less intelligent movies out there than anything Alfa ever made.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/08/03 13:49:04


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Interesting take on the situation here: https://pluralistic.net/2021/07/30/space-marines/?amp&__twitter_impression=true
   
Made in es
Brutal Black Orc




Barcelona, Spain

Sarouan wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:

Verifyable hard fact is that now there's a chilling effect going on, are you also denying that?


Flick is still making his w40k artwork without a care in the world, so that "chilling effect proof" is clearly not applying to everyone.

Just a handful of people freaking out and making buzz on the internet so far. MilkandcookieTW joined the bandwagon as well.


So yes it is on GW's shoulders to a large part.

Should Alfabusa atleast have tried to contact GW? Probably, at the very least its parody so he would've been quite well protected.


Sure, GW is responsible for Alfabusa profiting of their IP without their permission and refusing even to contact them first.

And don't try to sugarcoat it : Alfabusa totally SHOULD have tried to contact GW first. Even before he started to profit from using their IP, actually, because the old guidelines were still there and didn't give him "tolerance or permission" to do it. He knows it, you know it, we know it.


Otoh, why should he bother with GW? GW has and we know this from the past a tendency to artificially expand court times to just use its financial weight to kill off opposition despite they technically being in the right?


And yet so far, the actual reports we have of GW contacting content creators have been nothing as dire as it seems in some "doom prophecy" videos in youtube asking you to send a letter to complaint service.

It's litterally weaponizing their fanbase against something they don't like in the guidelines, even though they -know- what they have been profiting of for so long before.

The "it's free advertisement !" argument is frankly an excuse, here. Because, let's be honest on Alfabusa's case : his videos don't really push his fanbase into buying GW products, here. More like the video game Stellaris from Paradox...

Same for MilkandcookieTW who put out a video about this asking his community to send a boycott letter to GW : he's rather focused on the video game Total War Warhammer, not the miniatures themselves. Yet he used the exact same arguments seen on this topic (meaning doom prophecy from the guidelines and vague reporting of what "happened" to other content creators like Absolutely Nothing), and most of his fanbase doesn't try to go any further. Why would they ? Their favorite youtuber is saying this is wrong, so he must be right.

The funny part is that most of their community who want to send a letter saying they won't buy GW products until they change their "zero tolerance stance" certainly never bought GW products anyway (aka miniatures and books). One of the comments says the guy canceled its Total War Warhammer 3 pre order to protest. LOL.


Flick is russian. Good luck trying to press copyright there.
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





Lord Kragan wrote:

Flick is russian. Good luck trying to press copyright there.


Exactly. At least he doesn't try to make it look like he's hiding what he's doing or calling to revolution. He knows how GW was from the very beginning, that he doesn't do "free advertisement" for them and what he's using their IP for. And he does it well, I must say.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/03 18:05:49


 
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






Sarouan wrote:
Exactly. At least he doesn't try to make it look like he's hiding what he's doing or calling to revolution. He knows how GW was from the very beginning, that he doesn't do "free advertisement" for them and what he's using their IP for. And he does it well, I must say.

Show me anywhere in Alfa's video where it says to go after GW or its staff. Show me literally anywhere where Alfa is pretending that TTS is going away just to drive up Patreon supporters. All you have is conspiracy nonsense that does more harm than good.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/03 18:14:37


 
   
Made in ru
Screaming Shining Spear




Russia, Moscow

Flick is russian. Good luck trying to press copyright there.

No problems, if you actually are distributing something of a GW. Just not so long ago, all fan translations of GW books on the (barely alive, but still) russian Warhammer forum were nuked by moderation in a holywar due to legal publisher sending mod team a notice. It was salty because, err, the fan translated stuff didn't have actual official versions to buy, and what we have is of dubious quality of translation.
Artel W also removed their DOW3 content when pressed.
Russian social media services hunt/shutdown piracy of books/minis as well. Recasters hide themselves by saying they're "painting services" :3
It is more piracy than somewhere else in the world, but Russia is still part of international IP agreements AFAIK - even when it comes to digital stuff.
It's more like just market is so small that GW doesn't care.

This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2021/08/03 18:31:52


 
   
Made in us
Sneaky Striking Scorpion




North Carolina



I'm glad he really drove home the point of the hypocrisy of GW here. Culture is built from other culture, and GW is just trying to pull up the ladder behind them.
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

Sarouan wrote:

Flick is still making his w40k artwork without a care in the world, so that "chilling effect proof" is clearly not applying to everyone.

Just a handful of people freaking out and making buzz on the internet so far. MilkandcookieTW joined the bandwagon as well.


I hate to point this out, but showing that there's *a* guy still doing it doesn't disprove that there's been a chilling effect going on.

And, as several people have pointed out, he's protected in a country that I wish GW luck suing him in. They can't even stop the recasters there.

And if the band gets any bigger, it's gonna be conducted by the ghost of Glenn Miller.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/03 20:16:46



Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




Sarouan wrote:Sure, GW is responsible for Alfabusa profiting of their IP without their permission and refusing even to contact them first.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malekith_the_Accursed
Malekith the Accursed (/ˈmæləkɪθ/) is a fictional character appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics. He is the ruler of the Dark Elves of Svartalfheim,

https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Malekith
Malekith is the undisputed lord and master of the Dark Elves.

One showed up in the 80s (Marvel) and the other at some point in the 90s (I think). GW has many, many, many, many more examples of appropriating other people's IP in some funny way. One could even say that doing this is how GW/citadel was born (and lived its early years), by partly living in the grey area of copyright for quite a while until it established itself and became an IP bully itself.

They should be able to survive a few people making silly jokes while using bits and pieces of their IP.

   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





Mario wrote:
Sarouan wrote:Sure, GW is responsible for Alfabusa profiting of their IP without their permission and refusing even to contact them first.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malekith_the_Accursed
Malekith the Accursed (/ˈmæləkɪθ/) is a fictional character appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics. He is the ruler of the Dark Elves of Svartalfheim,

https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Malekith
Malekith is the undisputed lord and master of the Dark Elves.

One showed up in the 80s (Marvel) and the other at some point in the 90s (I think). GW has many, many, many, many more examples of appropriating other people's IP in some funny way. One could even say that doing this is how GW/citadel was born (and lived its early years), by partly living in the grey area of copyright for quite a while until it established itself and became an IP bully itself.

They should be able to survive a few people making silly jokes while using bits and pieces of their IP.



ok, and other then both being guys named Malekith who rule dark elves, how are they similer? they're completely differant characters

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





Mario wrote:
Sarouan wrote:Sure, GW is responsible for Alfabusa profiting of their IP without their permission and refusing even to contact them first.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malekith_the_Accursed
Malekith the Accursed (/ˈmæləkɪθ/) is a fictional character appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics. He is the ruler of the Dark Elves of Svartalfheim,

https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Malekith
Malekith is the undisputed lord and master of the Dark Elves.

One showed up in the 80s (Marvel) and the other at some point in the 90s (I think). GW has many, many, many, many more examples of appropriating other people's IP in some funny way. One could even say that doing this is how GW/citadel was born (and lived its early years), by partly living in the grey area of copyright for quite a while until it established itself and became an IP bully itself.

They should be able to survive a few people making silly jokes while using bits and pieces of their IP.



You're comparing taking inspiration from another work (something which in in the first place was also based on something else) in order to create their own IP (and even then, it's basic similarities of a name and the idea of "leader of dark elves"), and a situation of actually using someone else IP and profiting off it all without the permission of the IP owner. They're aren't comparable situations at all.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/03 22:04:36


 
   
Made in gb
Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader






BrianDavion wrote:
Mario wrote:
Sarouan wrote:Sure, GW is responsible for Alfabusa profiting of their IP without their permission and refusing even to contact them first.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malekith_the_Accursed
Malekith the Accursed (/ˈmæləkɪθ/) is a fictional character appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics. He is the ruler of the Dark Elves of Svartalfheim,

https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Malekith
Malekith is the undisputed lord and master of the Dark Elves.

One showed up in the 80s (Marvel) and the other at some point in the 90s (I think). GW has many, many, many, many more examples of appropriating other people's IP in some funny way. One could even say that doing this is how GW/citadel was born (and lived its early years), by partly living in the grey area of copyright for quite a while until it established itself and became an IP bully itself.

They should be able to survive a few people making silly jokes while using bits and pieces of their IP.



ok, and other then both being guys named Malekith who rule dark elves, how are they similer? they're completely differant characters


It’s an exceptional example of GW pretty much copying a character from another IP that’s often held up as ‘proof’ that everything in Warhammer is just a rip off of something else. In reality GW is really no more guilty than any other popular IP of building something new out of a concoction of influences and references. I expect it came about because someone at GW wrongly thought Malekith was a character from Norse Mythology.
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Mario wrote:
Sarouan wrote:Sure, GW is responsible for Alfabusa profiting of their IP without their permission and refusing even to contact them first.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malekith_the_Accursed
Malekith the Accursed (/ˈmæləkɪθ/) is a fictional character appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics. He is the ruler of the Dark Elves of Svartalfheim,

https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Malekith
Malekith is the undisputed lord and master of the Dark Elves.

One showed up in the 80s (Marvel) and the other at some point in the 90s (I think). GW has many, many, many, many more examples of appropriating other people's IP in some funny way. One could even say that doing this is how GW/citadel was born (and lived its early years), by partly living in the grey area of copyright for quite a while until it established itself and became an IP bully itself.

They should be able to survive a few people making silly jokes while using bits and pieces of their IP.



ok, and other then both being guys named Malekith who rule dark elves, how are they similer? they're completely differant characters


It’s an exceptional example of GW pretty much copying a character from another IP that’s often held up as ‘proof’ that everything in Warhammer is just a rip off of something else. In reality GW is really no more guilty than any other popular IP of building something new out of a concoction of influences and references. I expect it came about because someone at GW wrongly thought Malekith was a character from Norse Mythology.


that'd be my guess to. or was simply homage.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




So have you guys buried them in death threats to the point where they want nothing to do with warhammer anymore or was the other guy special?

2500pts
2500
3000


 
   
Made in fi
Dakka Veteran





ERJAK wrote:
So have you guys buried them in death threats to the point where they want nothing to do with warhammer anymore or was the other guy special?


The other guy was harassed because he tried to be reasonable and negotiated with GW.

This TTS guy is a hero. He has been stealing artwork for years and animates it with MS Paint to tell dick jokes. He refuses to negotiate with GW because he might lose his supporters who pay him 10k a month for not doing videos.

Did I get this right?

That place is the harsh dark future far left with only war left. 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





jullevi wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
So have you guys buried them in death threats to the point where they want nothing to do with warhammer anymore or was the other guy special?


The other guy was harassed because he tried to be reasonable and negotiated with GW.

This TTS guy is a hero. He has been stealing artwork for years and animates it with MS Paint to tell dick jokes. He refuses to negotiate with GW because he might lose his supporters who pay him 10k a month for not doing videos.

Did I get this right?


sounds accurate

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Excited Doom Diver






jullevi wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
So have you guys buried them in death threats to the point where they want nothing to do with warhammer anymore or was the other guy special?


The other guy was harassed because he tried to be reasonable and negotiated with GW.

This TTS guy is a hero. He has been stealing artwork for years and animates it with MS Paint to tell dick jokes. He refuses to negotiate with GW because he might lose his supporters who pay him 10k a month for not doing videos.

Did I get this right?


lol.

I know there are worse communities, but it's impressive how toxic ours is.

Space Wolves 4k
Harlequins 2k
Chaos Knights 2k
Spiderfangs 2k
Ossiarch Bonereapers 1k 
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
[
It’s an exceptional example of GW pretty much copying a character from another IP that’s often held up as ‘proof’ that everything in Warhammer is just a rip off of something else. In reality GW is really no more guilty than any other popular IP of building something new out of a concoction of influences and references. I expect it came about because someone at GW wrongly thought Malekith was a character from Norse Mythology.


There's taking inspiration and then there's blatant copying.

Things that GW 'took inspiration' from:

Sharpe
Flashman
Lensmen
Monastic and knightly orders
Vikings
Vampires
A wide, wide selection of Marvel Comics
Chainmail

Things that GW blatantly copied:
Various real world armies
Parts of various BL novels.
Dune
Judge Dread
Elric

I'm fairly certain the following could take place in a GW codex or BL novel somewhere and people would try hard to pretend it's original.

Drill-Abbot Hartman: WHERE ARE YOU FROM TROOPER?

Trooper Mordia: Mordia sir!

Drill-Abbot Hartman: MORDIA?! HOLY THRONE! ONLY TRAITORS AND FREIGHTERS COME FROM MORDIA! AND YOU DON'T LOOK LIKE A BULK TRANSPORT TO ME SO I GUESS THAT KINDA NARROWS IT DOWN. ARE YOU A HERETIC?

Trooper Mordia: Sir no sir!

Drill-Abbot Hartman: I BET YOU'RE THE KINDA GUY WHO'D BETRAY THE IMPERIUM AND NOT HAVE THE COMMON COURTESY TO KILL YOURSELF AFTERWARDS.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/04 00:24:57



Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

I’m on the other side of the issue in terms of “stealing from many is research”. But that also means I support youtube creators’ rights to create parodies by slapping fart jokes on your IP.


In a related note, has anyone read Pride and Prejudice and Zombies or Sense and Sensibility and Sea Monsters? Straight up plagiarism transformed (into parody?) through the addition of copious nonsense. I wonder how GW, or more importantly the fan community, would react to something like Eisenhorn in the Time of Cholera…

   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

In a related note, has anyone read Pride and Prejudice and Zombies or Sense and Sensibility and Sea Monsters? Straight up plagiarism transformed (into parody?) through the addition of copious nonsense. I wonder how GW, or more importantly the fan community, would react to something like Eisenhorn in the Time of Cholera…


Not sure - "Pride and Prejudice" and "Sense and Sensibility" are both in the public domain though, so it's not like there's a rightsholder to sue authors anyway.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 Gene St. Ealer wrote:


I'm glad he really drove home the point of the hypocrisy of GW here. Culture is built from other culture, and GW is just trying to pull up the ladder behind them.


Yup! Just like Disney.

It's also part of why I think the community has had problems with toxicity - it comes down from the top, from GW's example.
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

In a related note, has anyone read Pride and Prejudice and Zombies or Sense and Sensibility and Sea Monsters? Straight up plagiarism transformed (into parody?) through the addition of copious nonsense. I wonder how GW, or more importantly the fan community, would react to something like Eisenhorn in the Time of Cholera…


20,000 Light Years under Segmentum Pacificus. Actually, let's go really old school: The Guillimanid

But, again, you're comparing Public Domain works against works that are still under copyright.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/04 01:27:35



Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

I forgot they were public domain.

   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





Hecaton wrote:
 Gene St. Ealer wrote:


I'm glad he really drove home the point of the hypocrisy of GW here. Culture is built from other culture, and GW is just trying to pull up the ladder behind them.


Yup! Just like Disney.

It's also part of why I think the community has had problems with toxicity - it comes down from the top, from GW's example.


yes it's all GW's fault! they're MAKING the community act like asses, uh uh....

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




BrianDavion wrote:


yes it's all GW's fault! they're MAKING the community act like asses, uh uh....


Certain communities can heighten toxicity because of the environment, yes. If GW was actually positive and chill... things would be better off. I'm probably immersed in the most toxic parts of the Infinity community and it's not nearly as bad.
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






X to doubt.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Animators have had their turn.

Now it's mod-makers for video games. Maker of the Radious mod for Total War Warhammer has something akin to the "Nice mod there, shame if something were to happen to it!" discussion.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
 
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