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Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Animators have had their turn.

Now it's mod-makers for video games. Maker of the Radious mod for Total War Warhammer has something akin to the "Nice mod there, shame if something were to happen to it!" discussion.


perhaps you could post more facts and less hyperbole? what is the mod and what happened?

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Removing patron links, limits on what assets they can use, and general confusion.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

 Gert wrote:
X to doubt.


Are you doubting the Warhammer community is toxic? You? And you haven’t seen how a company taking the lead, or failing to, has reinforced some of the most toxic elements in the fandom?

   
Made in us
Excellent Exalted Champion of Chaos





I mean... if you're profiting off of someone else's IP, chances are you are going to get shut down eventually.

Lately these days it seems more and more people do video channels and mods and animations etc for "their brand" to propel their career, and thats great. Thats what social media and youtube and twitch etc can be used for.

But when you do it off of the back of someone else's IP - you should already know that you're treading thin ice.

This is exactly why I have never gotten deep into doing content for any other companies. Even my fan stuff that I did takes a lot of time and effort and can easily be shut down in a heartbeat.

Thats the IP owner's right.
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






 auticus wrote:
I mean... if you're profiting off of someone else's IP, chances are you are going to get shut down eventually.

Lately these days it seems more and more people do video channels and mods and animations etc for "their brand" to propel their career, and thats great. Thats what social media and youtube and twitch etc can be used for.

But when you do it off of the back of someone else's IP - you should already know that you're treading thin ice.

This is exactly why I have never gotten deep into doing content for any other companies. Even my fan stuff that I did takes a lot of time and effort and can easily be shut down in a heartbeat.

Thats the IP owner's right.

That's the thing, Fan works used to be hidden and you couldn't make money off them.
Now you can, and "fair use" and "parody" are incredibly nebulous terms.

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Removing patron links, limits on what assets they can use, and general confusion.


makes me wonder if maybe GW simply finds people using their IP to power a patreon account the real issue

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

this is the issue, same as with YT

as long as your are advertising the companies products for free, everything is ok
as soon as you make money, there will be problems not only for the one making it, but also for the company owing the IP, as (in some countries) if they never defend their IP in that area, they lose the right to do so

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




BrianDavion wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Removing patron links, limits on what assets they can use, and general confusion.


makes me wonder if maybe GW simply finds people using their IP to power a patreon account the real issue


Nah, that's just the foot in the door. Their "guidelines" don't care about monetization.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 kodos wrote:

as soon as you make money, there will be problems not only for the one making it, but also for the company owing the IP, as (in some countries) if they never defend their IP in that area, they lose the right to do so


Gonna need a citation on that chief.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/04 05:57:30


 
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

I don't know the name of the specific UK law, but this is around in several EU countries

the afford you put into defending your IP is accounted during court, if you never did it, another company has less to no problems taking it over in a specific area that you did not originally cover (eg like animations, if GW does not defend their IP regarding animations for a longer time they will have a very weak position in court)


Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





BrianDavion wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Animators have had their turn.

Now it's mod-makers for video games. Maker of the Radious mod for Total War Warhammer has something akin to the "Nice mod there, shame if something were to happen to it!" discussion.


perhaps you could post more facts and less hyperbole? what is the mod and what happened?


It's from a communication on their Steam workshop's page (see the comments) :


Hello Everyone, Team Radious here.

Today we have important news for you, so please take the time to read the announcement below.

In line with the recent change of Games Workshop policy on their Intellectual Property (IP) rights management, particularly in relation to the monetisation of fan-made content, we have been respectfully asked to remove links to our Patreon Links from the Warhammer and Warhammer II Workshop pages, as well as to make other associated changes to our Patron reward/goal system related to Warhammer IP. In compliance to this request we have now deleted, or will delete very soon, all links and references to our Patreon and PayPal on our Warhammer I and II Workshop mod areas. Those remaining, and leading to our Social Media, will remain unaffected until we are told otherwise. The changes requested in other areas have also either already been made or will also be rendered shortly.

Radious [créateur] Il y a 12 heures
We will continue to deliver highest quality mods to you and operate within these new bounds. These changes currently only affect the Warhammer Trilogy. We remain committed to our mission of making your TW games more interesting and varied. We already have 8 complete Overhauls under our belt since 2011 and the release of Shogun 2, and we shall continue in this manner thanks to great support and feedback from our awesome community. Our work always was and always will be available entirely for free for everyone. We have never paywalled anything and we never will. By supporting our work, you do not buy anything but our gratitude and the easing of some of our real-life burdens. Modding is our passion, not a full-time job, we do this for longer than anyone in Total War history and we are still here because of You, our great fans!

Radious [créateur] Il y a 12 heures
While we are deeply disappointed by such a turn of events, we also recognize the importance of IP in modern society. It is a sad day for mod creators, and others who engage in the creation of fan content for Warhammer, but such a move is well within the remit of the holders of such rights, and we can’t do anything about it. We shall say no more on the matter, there are others who cover the matter in far more depth. We ask you for any discussion in the comments to be civil and respectful.

Yours,
Team Radious


The mod itself is amongst others things about adding custom units that they say "come from the lore and history of WHB battlebooks". You can see a list here : https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0ByZi52jXTp5SUTlnc3NQOW9SVEU?resourcekey=0-x7i2njPL00A8lEJ-CbssxA

To be honest, they take a lot of freedom about that "lore friendly part", but their work is nonetheless very impressive.

Nothing like the "mafia tone" HBMC tried to imply, of course, but he's not about facts, just ideology.

It's not really about the mod itself, but as expected from the guidelines, more about the moneytisation of fan-made content and the links to their patreon pages on their Steam workshop page. Their patreon account isn't removed, though, and the links elsewhere seem to be still valid. It seems they were just asked not to show people can donate for Warhammer IP related patreon rewards.

There is no confusion shown on the communication, though. Quite the opposite.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/08/04 07:24:26


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




kodos wrote:I don't know the name of the specific UK law, but this is around in several EU countries

the afford you put into defending your IP is accounted during court, if you never did it, another company has less to no problems taking it over in a specific area that you did not originally cover (eg like animations, if GW does not defend their IP regarding animations for a longer time they will have a very weak position in court)



What you're referring to is about protection of a trademark, not all IP and specifically not copyright. GW not defending their animations doesn't make it harder to do so later as that would be (mainly) copyright infringement. Failure to defend a trademark can, in some situations, lead to you losing the right to defend it in the future because it becomes a generic term. In the US this has happened the Kleenex and Band-Aid though there aren't as many cases of it happening outside of the US.

Sarouan wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Animators have had their turn.

Now it's mod-makers for video games. Maker of the Radious mod for Total War Warhammer has something akin to the "Nice mod there, shame if something were to happen to it!" discussion.


perhaps you could post more facts and less hyperbole? what is the mod and what happened?


It's from a communication on their Steam workshop's page (see the comments) :

Spoiler:



Hello Everyone, Team Radious here.

Today we have important news for you, so please take the time to read the announcement below.

In line with the recent change of Games Workshop policy on their Intellectual Property (IP) rights management, particularly in relation to the monetisation of fan-made content, we have been respectfully asked to remove links to our Patreon Links from the Warhammer and Warhammer II Workshop pages, as well as to make other associated changes to our Patron reward/goal system related to Warhammer IP. In compliance to this request we have now deleted, or will delete very soon, all links and references to our Patreon and PayPal on our Warhammer I and II Workshop mod areas. Those remaining, and leading to our Social Media, will remain unaffected until we are told otherwise. The changes requested in other areas have also either already been made or will also be rendered shortly.

Radious [créateur] Il y a 12 heures
We will continue to deliver highest quality mods to you and operate within these new bounds. These changes currently only affect the Warhammer Trilogy. We remain committed to our mission of making your TW games more interesting and varied. We already have 8 complete Overhauls under our belt since 2011 and the release of Shogun 2, and we shall continue in this manner thanks to great support and feedback from our awesome community. Our work always was and always will be available entirely for free for everyone. We have never paywalled anything and we never will. By supporting our work, you do not buy anything but our gratitude and the easing of some of our real-life burdens. Modding is our passion, not a full-time job, we do this for longer than anyone in Total War history and we are still here because of You, our great fans!

Radious [créateur] Il y a 12 heures
While we are deeply disappointed by such a turn of events, we also recognize the importance of IP in modern society. It is a sad day for mod creators, and others who engage in the creation of fan content for Warhammer, but such a move is well within the remit of the holders of such rights, and we can’t do anything about it. We shall say no more on the matter, there are others who cover the matter in far more depth. We ask you for any discussion in the comments to be civil and respectful.

Yours,
Team Radious




The mod itself is amongst others things about adding custom units that they say "come from the lore and history of WHB battlebooks". You can see a list here : https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0ByZi52jXTp5SUTlnc3NQOW9SVEU?resourcekey=0-x7i2njPL00A8lEJ-CbssxA

To be honest, they take a lot of freedom about that "lore friendly part", but their work is nonetheless very impressive.

Nothing like the "mafia tone" HBMC tried to imply, of course, but he's not about facts, just ideology.



Yeah, that post is hardly what HBMC makes it out to be. I guess just quoting that doesn't allow you to play the "GW is evil" card quite so easily though.
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran



Bamberg / Erlangen

Wow. This
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Animators have had their turn.

Now it's mod-makers for video games. Maker of the Radious mod for Total War Warhammer has something akin to the "Nice mod there, shame if something were to happen to it!" discussion.


And that

Hello Everyone, Team Radious here.

Today we have important news for you, so please take the time to read the announcement below....


Really does not have the same vibe. Shows how important it is to do your own research and form your own opinion instead of listening to the report / summary of others.

Imperial Guard Space Marines
 
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





a_typical_hero wrote:


Really does not have the same vibe. Shows how important it is to do your own research and form your own opinion instead of listening to the report / summary of others.


Indeed, that's what I try to do in this topic. There are a lot of shortcuts made with this buzz around and I think that's quite dangerous. Obviously, people having patreon accounts for Warhammer IP's related work aren't happy with this. Very understandable as well. What is dangerous is when they misrepresent the facts to weaponize their fanbase - and usually, it's coming from another source, like other Youtubers who'd rather present things better for their side of the story rather than actually showing what really happened.

That's what leads to angry reactions and things like the "spammed complaint letter to GW". It's weaponizing their fanbase and trying to gather a high number enough behind them so that they can have more weight and hope GW change their current stance. Truth isn't really their main motive here. They have clear interests as well in this story.

World has a lot of nuances !
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





Lincolnton, N.C.

Here's the thing though.

So what if a fan made animation is making that person money on Youtube or whatever?

Show me where it is COSTING GW money. Show me how there are in ANY WAY a victim, when they are still getting free advertising, hype for their products and lore, etc.

If you really think fan made videos are hurting GW's IP even with the upcoming Warhammer+ I have ocean front property in Nebraska to sell you.

My beloved 40K armies:
Children of Stirba
Order of Saint Pan Thera


DR:80S+++G+M+B++IPw40K(3)00-D++A+++/cWD233R---T(M)DM+ 
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Here's the thing though.

So what if a fan made animation is making that person money on Youtube or whatever?

Show me where it is COSTING GW money. Show me how there are in ANY WAY a victim, when they are still getting free advertising, hype for their products and lore, etc.

If you really think fan made videos are hurting GW's IP even with the upcoming Warhammer+ I have ocean front property in Nebraska to sell you.


Like said before by others, it's not about costing GW money. It's indeed the fact you can earn money to the point of making a business out of another's IP. It's not just about making fan work, here. Nowadays, you can profit out of it.

If GW does nothing, the message perceived by others will be "hey you can use their IP without their permission to make money, it's fine !". The requests made to Radious look in line with this : they asked to remove patreon related rewards to Warhammer IP, but not the rest since Radious also works on other Total War games that have nothing to do with Warhammer IP. They didn't ask to remove patreon links on the other Total War games mods that have nothing to do with Warhammer.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/04 08:01:28


 
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





Lincolnton, N.C.

But that shouldn't be wrong. Or shut down. There should be nothing wrong with that.

My beloved 40K armies:
Children of Stirba
Order of Saint Pan Thera


DR:80S+++G+M+B++IPw40K(3)00-D++A+++/cWD233R---T(M)DM+ 
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





 KingmanHighborn wrote:
But that shouldn't be wrong. Or shut down. There should be nothing wrong with that.


See Radious's statement. They're not shut down.

And yes, you may believe that, but you also have to understand the consequences of such a stance. Perception is key. See how many people thought it was "fine" to do that with the old guidelines. Trouble is, with patreon like sites, it's becoming increasingly easy to turn a fan-made project into something that brings actual money. And sure, it help the people creating this content, but it's not necessarily encouraging creativity nor excellence...it's easy to be more focused on profits as time goes on.

To me, Alfabusa's patreon having a huge surge in donations can become a real curse for him...I have seen more than one patreon going south because the creator was too successful and became more and more obsessed with the patreon up-and-down amounts following his posted content. Some even were unable to make more content like before because of it, their patreon kept going down and they went into a spiral of despair because of that...It's a perverse effect and it's not something easy to handle.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/08/04 08:14:09


 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Here's the thing though.

So what if a fan made animation is making that person money on Youtube or whatever?

Show me where it is COSTING GW money. Show me how there are in ANY WAY a victim, when they are still getting free advertising, hype for their products and lore, etc.

If you really think fan made videos are hurting GW's IP even with the upcoming Warhammer+ I have ocean front property in Nebraska to sell you.


Does this count for all IP, or just GW.

GW won’t see much loss, but smaller IP can. Stolen work is a rather huge deal if you are not a huge corporation, especially if someone has enough of a brand presence to take something and push out the creator.
   
Made in gb
Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader






 KingmanHighborn wrote:
But that shouldn't be wrong. Or shut down. There should be nothing wrong with that.


Seriously? There should be nothing wrong with profiting from someone else’s IP?

So if, for example, you wrote a novel then a film studio should be able to turn it into a movie and not pay you a penny? That’s what you’re arguing. It’s too easy to see this in terms of the big evil corporation vs the little guy just trying to scratch a living, but those legal protections work both ways.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





 KingmanHighborn wrote:
But that shouldn't be wrong. Or shut down. There should be nothing wrong with that.


You don't think IP holders should have the right to choose who, when and how their property is used and to stop others from profiting off their work without permission? I don't see how that's meant to a good idea at all.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/04 08:25:55


 
   
Made in gb
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler





 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
 KingmanHighborn wrote:
But that shouldn't be wrong. Or shut down. There should be nothing wrong with that.


Seriously? There should be nothing wrong with profiting from someone else’s IP?

So if, for example, you wrote a novel then a film studio should be able to turn it into a movie and not pay you a penny? That’s what you’re arguing. It’s too easy to see this in terms of the big evil corporation vs the little guy just trying to scratch a living, but those legal protections work both ways.


This is a great analogy. Someone asked earlier where the proof was that this fan content was costing GW money. There's no proof that the film studio would be causing the author to lose money, in fact the movie will probably boost sales of the book. But that doesn't make it okay...

   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





To be honest, I believe there's no "good and bad" sides to this story. Both sides have interests to support their respective stance.

Yes, it's a fact GW is protecting their IP and own business gains, and it's also a fact that their soon-to-come Warhammer + channel is suspiciously coming at the time they updated their old guidelines and began recently contacting fan animators.

It's also a fact that the contacted content creator using Warhammer IP had a patreon account / way to moneytise their work, and that the requests to remove stuff usually are linked mainly with it.

And it's a sad fact we have more youtube videos about taking a side against / boycott GW that tend to give a more distorted view of the facts with the content creators being "bullied / forced by GW", or even straightforwardly saying their content was demonetized - knowing that on Youtube, that means a claim without being contacted by the company first and that hasn't happen so far.

Those youtubers are usually having a channel somewhat related with Warhammer IP and gaining money from it and thus have clear interest to take a side against GW here.

So...it's all about taking a side. To be frank...even if I'm a GW fan and I recognize I tend to take their side...here, as time goes on, I don't really want to take any.

I'll just stick to the facts and make my opinion out of them, I believe.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

The thing is a lot of people don't understand copyright/ip/trademarks even at a basic level. They also tend to see "big business" as "evil" and smaller ones as good just because of scale - accepting that many also don't fully realise how big some small businesses can get.

There's also the fact that people like the stuff that content creators make and when they sense that it will stop - the money stops and the animations might well stop because the animator can no longer dedicate all their time to it - they get annoyed. They want an exception to the rules.


In the end wrap that up with some miss information and a fair few people recalling GW's legal actions of half a decade or so ago and you've got a ripe bed to fester way with some unthinking hate.





That said through social activity and GW's actions the community has grown a hotbed of antagonistic haters of GW who whip up a storm of hate very quickly. It's a very strange and odd situation where you've a huge body of people buying and doing stuff within the GW system, who also hate the GW system almost with just as much passion.
It's a very strange and honestly worrying thing that exists mostly online - in person at clubs most people who get disgruntled just move on - online they stay and often find others of a like mind. Which then not only keeps them active, but reinforces, encourages and drives the hate to new levels.

At the worst we have "fans" who attack other fans outright or even staff and individuals.

It's a worrying thing to me though its been there a while (lets not forget GW's first attempt at going online was, if also a bit missmanaged, a crashing and burning forum that had to be scrapped and scrubbed from the minds of its users). But its something that I think is "growing" and something that the community really needs to address at some point.

A Blog in Miniature

The Swarm Arises

Do you ever notice, sometimes, there's an extra post? 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

I live in the UK, GW's "guidelines" literally mean nothing to me as I can parody, pastiche, satire and even outright copy without consent their IP if its for personal use, if its not for personal use then it becomes a grey area depending on how its done, parody and pastiche are easy lines to cross so best make sure things are noticeably different but still fit, for example a personally designed space marine type model that takes some design elements but is clearly not one of their designs.

No laws have been broken, no theft has occurred so morally and ethically I do not care what GW has to say on the matter especially when there is a better case to be made about THIER IP "theft" over the years if we are considering pastiche to be "theft"
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Overread wrote:

It's a worrying thing to me though its been there a while (lets not forget GW's first attempt at going online was, if also a bit missmanaged, a crashing and burning forum that had to be scrapped and scrubbed from the minds of its users). But its something that I think is "growing" and something that the community really needs to address at some point.


I have been pretty agressive in the past, so I'm certainly not blameless about that effect. To be honest, it's not really specific to GW...nowadays, on social networks, it's easy to just follow the content you agree with and to see the "other side" as evil / liars. Everything is polarized so fast.

There are also so many tools playing on our emotions rather than our capacity to think / reason. It's not really surprising we go to his end. Frustrations can quickly build up and focus once you have a clear target to blame. World is always simpler to understand without nuances, I think.
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




A lot of GW hate is boring and mostly comes off as performative and a way to fit in(“GW bad am I right”) everyone knows the memes and most of the reasons to hate the company are just detached from reality at this stage. The IP thing I can understand why they are doing it, it doesn’t make it right. It’s a shame to see some creators go out this way. I wasn’t a fan of TTS and was surprised it was still going, it has a habit of carrying on jokes/memes well passed their death (something a lot of the community is guilty of) but I think that video they put out isn’t helpful. They should let the dust settle and see what happens, see what happens and if GW take it anywhere. There’s a poisonous (and completely tedious) cack storm as a result of it and a lot of GW YouTube commentators jumping on this, and the kicker is…. nothing has actually happened yet!
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Mario wrote:


They should be able to survive a few people making silly jokes while using bits and pieces of their IP.



They probably can and might well never go after this content creator anyway. We'll never know as he's made the choice to stop anyway. Yes GW were "inspired" by a whole lot of other things in their history too. But they never tried to actually license those things. If they had, they'd probably have been told "no" as well. Just like the TTS guy would if he asked GW for a license.

But GW took the risk. They carried on regardless knowing that one of these larger companies that owned the IP they profited from could well have come after them legally. But they kept going, and got to the point that they were bigger than all those companies and so didn't have to worry about that any more. But that was the risk they chose to take. Other content creators may choose not to take that risk with GW.

And we just don't know. GW might believe in the absolute right to parody being sacrosanct and while they don't like what TTS is doing with their IP, they recognise it as parody and hence accept it's not something they can stop. Hell, that would explain why so many of the other big Warhammer animation channels have been contacted by GW in the past months but TTS hasn't been. They might well agree with us that it's parody so has to be left alone. We won't know.
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





deano2099 wrote:
Mario wrote:


They should be able to survive a few people making silly jokes while using bits and pieces of their IP.



They probably can and might well never go after this content creator anyway. We'll never know as he's made the choice to stop anyway. Yes GW were "inspired" by a whole lot of other things in their history too. But they never tried to actually license those things. If they had, they'd probably have been told "no" as well. Just like the TTS guy would if he asked GW for a license.

But GW took the risk. They carried on regardless knowing that one of these larger companies that owned the IP they profited from could well have come after them legally. But they kept going, and got to the point that they were bigger than all those companies and so didn't have to worry about that any more. But that was the risk they chose to take. Other content creators may choose not to take that risk with GW.
.


I think you';re letting these people confuse you, no GW didn't just rip off other IPs. they borrowed ideas from them yes but these ideas went into creating something new.

just for case of point, some people legitimately learn their lore for 40k from TTS (this is aweful but some people think thats how you can learn it)

NO ONE would claim you can learn about Dune through 40k

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





Wonder if they'll go after commission artists next, particularly when a lot of them do freelance work for GW anyway.

If they're taking aim at mod makers now, that doesn't bode well for lore and battle report channels, particularly when few of them are quiet about their Patreons and W+ will have it's own versions of them.

You know it says a lot that in just about any other fandom, if any other company did this, forums and social media would be on fire 24/7. It speaks a lot as to why GW is so successful not so much because of their product but the quasi-religious devotion that a non-insignificant proportion of it's fanbase has towards The Hobby. When people call Warhammer World it's 'Mecca' I wonder if some mean it more literally than you'd think.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/08/04 11:46:24


 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





 Formosa wrote:
I live in the UK, GW's "guidelines" literally mean nothing to me as I can parody, pastiche, satire and even outright copy without consent their IP if its for personal use, if its not for personal use then it becomes a grey area depending on how its done, parody and pastiche are easy lines to cross so best make sure things are noticeably different but still fit, for example a personally designed space marine type model that takes some design elements but is clearly not one of their designs.



This is something that keeps being said but I feel is somewhat misrepresenting the situation, because it is not that simple. Everything here that GW says regarding copyright is what UK copyright law says, their guidelines do not go against that at all. You need a license or permission to use someone else's IP, that is the basis of copyright protection and applies regardless of if they say that or not. They have not said anything that tries to over-ride that, what they state is the same thing as the law does.

I'm sure that'll be attempted to be argued against with "They don't mention the exemptions, so they're trying to trick people and stop those!" and the like, but there are important nuances with the exemptions that that misses. The exemptions to copyright are something placed ontop of the idea of needing a license/permission to let you use a limited amount of copyrighted material in certain specific situations, that still underlines them and is still the case. It is absolutely not a situation of something as simple as "This is a parody, so i can use what I want" with you being able to use their IP in whatever way. Copyright exemptions still have restrictions and conditions attached to them, you can make a parody or review and still be breaking copyright law and infringing. Those copyright exemptions have to fit in with the concept of "Fair Dealing", but that is not something that has a set of defined characteristics to determine in the first place, it's judged on a case by case basis with all sorts of different factors.

They cannot just put "you can make a parody" in there because that's not really how it works. A parody itself is not the exemption, it's a parody that meets "fair dealing". So they'd need to try and explain "Fair Dealing", but that is something that cannot be easily explained because it entirely depends on the situation and what is done with the copyrighted work, and you could only properly try and determine whether it's infringing or not after it's made. It's not quite "You can't use someones IP, unless it's a parody " but rather "You can't use someone else IP, unless you meet "fair dealing" with these specific things, you made a parody so maybe you're not infringing, now to determine if it is or not" where it's still infringement unless the situation can be reasonably deemed to count as exempt.

What they have on there does not in any way go against what copyright law says, because it is what the law says. Not including that there are some exemptions doesn't invalidate that, it's a complicated situation and trying to figure out what exactly would count or not goes beyond what the guidelines are for. The law applies unless exempt, and being exempt or not is determined after.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/04 11:38:39


 
   
 
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