Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/02 07:01:31
Subject: .
|
 |
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch
|
.
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/02/24 23:48:40
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/02 07:25:38
Subject: Wave Serpent or Falcon?
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
New Zealand
|
There is no single answer to this, if I had to pick one I would say the Falcon, but its not an easy choice.
If you plan to be pushing forward with units, like Fire Dragons etc, then the Serpent is a much better choice because the Energy Field keeps it safe from melta and in general they are cheaper. If you plan on hanging back then the Holo-field makes the Falcon one of the hardest vehicle in the game to put down, which make them ideal for backfield scoring units which put out some decent firepower on the move. Probably the biggest factor to consider with Falcons is that they take up a Heavy slot, which puts them in competition with Prisms and War Walkers hence why you don't see them as much.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/02 08:38:05
Subject: Re:Wave Serpent or Falcon?
|
 |
Wicked Warp Spider
A cave, deep in the Misty Mountains
|
As Powerguy said, there is no one answer, but it depends on the rest of your army, your preferred tactics and what you plan on putting in them (please tell me you had a unit for the falcon?)
Personally, I prefer the waveserpent. A full squad of troops with up to two accompanying characters. Twin-linked guns of your choice. Those special shields whose name I can't recall. And they don't take up a heavy support choice, which is better used for War Walkers, WL and Fire prisms / nightspinner.
That being said, I do have and use a falcon quite often, and it also does great. Just not as great as my WS.
|
Craftworld Eleuven 4500
LoneLictor on thread about an ork choking the Emperor:
LoneLictor wrote:I like to imagine the Emperor kills so many Orks that he ends up half buried beneath a pile of corpses, with only his head sticking out. A lone grot stumbles across him, and starts choking him.
Then Horus comes across the lone grot, somehow managing to kill the Emperor, and punts it into space. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 08:01:56
Subject: Re:Wave Serpent or Falcon?
|
 |
Fresh-Faced New User
|
Heh nah this is real simple w/ our lances being wildly expensive you take the Wave Serpent and don't use the vehicles( minus walkers) to take out other vehicles, the energy fields are a bane to alot of armies. They negate soooo many special rules, it's really hard to go against them.
Sure the the holo-fields of the falcon are useful, but at best your not able to shoot those upgraded weapons for a turn whenever you get hit.
With the energy fields you negate extra melta/ las, vindicator, and any other high str based attack and at best they need a 4 to glance ya/ rending/ oh yeah and that damn vindicare assasin that EVERY GK player seems to run can't touch a wave serpent when shooting at its front or sides.
|
Eldar: 12k
BA: 5k
SW: 3k
Tyranids: 200(a trygon lol) |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 08:13:31
Subject: Wave Serpent or Falcon?
|
 |
Mighty Brass Scorpion of Khorne
|
I'd say that the Wave Serpent is the best, by quite a way.
The Falcon may have the Puse Laser + another weapon + Shuriken Catapult/Cannon, but it will rarely get to use them all. The only time I think the Falc is viable is with a unit of 5 Avengers in, camping on a backfield objective.
The Wave Serpent is noticably cheaper and can move and still shoot its twin-linked weapon, as soon as a falcon moves, its payload is quite noticably reduced.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 08:19:01
Subject: Wave Serpent or Falcon?
|
 |
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine
HIDING IN THE METAL BAWKSES!!
|
Wave Serpent, not a heavy support choice, cheaper and gets the job done.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 15:56:21
Subject: Wave Serpent or Falcon?
|
 |
[DCM]
Moustache-twirling Princeps
Gone-to-ground in the craters of Coventry
|
If it's a matter of money, get a Wave Serpent.
For FoC, Wave Serpents are dedicated transports, so leave the Heavy slots open.
But, sticking troops in the back of a Falcon, you can park it on an objective and fire away.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 17:44:45
Subject: Wave Serpent or Falcon?
|
 |
Swift Swooping Hawk
|
Wave serpent is definitely better. The serpent's shield makes my whole army. Its a bitch to destroy and holds 12 models. I couldn't ask more from it.
|
  Craftworlds Eldar: 8500
Dark Eldar: 1000
Harlequins: 1000
Raven Guard: 1500
Tyranids: 1500
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 18:00:29
Subject: Wave Serpent or Falcon?
|
 |
Ichor-Dripping Talos Monstrosity
|
Personally I'd say the wave serpent.
It's pretty much a tank in its own right in regards to armour and firepower, on top of that it's a dedicated transport, and you can ultimately fill every FoC slot with them if memory serves. (if it does I'd love to run a force of 15+ of them I'll figure it out when I get home.).
You can take 2 in HQ, 3 Elites, 6 Troops and 3 HS for a total of 14.  .
If you do it as 12, you can make it for 3000pts too with around 20 Eldar Missile Launchers, 15 Fire Dragons and 9 Dark Reapers. :3
And ultimately, while I intend to get a Falcon, It'll only be for carrying my harlequins and to be painted in 'quin colours. My HS slots will be for warwalkers, wraithlods and hs platforms.
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/10/04 19:15:49
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 20:32:44
Subject: Wave Serpent or Falcon?
|
 |
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
|
Not sure how you can compare a dedicated transport and a heavy choice.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 20:47:20
Subject: Wave Serpent or Falcon?
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
Beaver Dam, WI
|
Godless-Mimicry wrote:Not sure how you can compare a dedicated transport and a heavy choice.
It is kind of like comparing a razorback to a las predator or a landraider. (Except for the AV differences)
The falcon offers more flexible fire due to its 3 weapon systems and it is harder to kill but wave serpents are cheaper and offer the higher carrying capacity and the melta protection. Also - as a comparison - you almost have to look at serpents with TL BL to get the costs about the same and the effects. The Falcon has the 2 built-in S8 AP 2 shots while not lance, this still puts a falcon into an auto anti-tank role. A wave serpent with TL - scatterlasers - while still able to take on light AVs is going to be going at different targets than a falcon.
The deciding point for me is the fact that Falcons take up heavy slots. While I intend on playing them for awhile, I think Falcons are the third or fourth best Heavy choice for eldar. So make sure you have no use for War walkers, fire prisms or night spinners before you invest in falcons.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 21:26:54
Subject: Wave Serpent or Falcon?
|
 |
Ichor-Dripping Talos Monstrosity
|
Godless-Mimicry wrote:Not sure how you can compare a dedicated transport and a heavy choice. Falcon Grav Tank: 115 pts base, average 140-150? Type - Tank, Skimmer, Fast AV - 12 / 12 / 10 BS 3 Transport Cap - 6 Access Hatch - 1, Rear Weapons - 1x Twin Linked Shuriken Catpult, 1x Pulse Laser, 1x Eldar Heavy Weapon Can take standard vehicle upgrades + upgrade TLSC to Shuriken Cannon. Wave Serpent: 90 pts base, average 100-140 Type - Tank, Skimmer, Fast AV - 12 / 12 / 10 BS 3 Special Rules - Energy Field (reduces enemy hits to front / side to S8, removes anything past 1d6 pen) Transport Cap - 12 Access Hatch - 1, Rear Weapons - 1x Twin Linked Shuriken Catpult, 1x Twin-Linked Eldar Heavy Weapon Can take standard vehicle upgrades + upgrade TLSC to Shuriken Cannon. Kinda like that. On paper, they're both tanks, they both have the same base stats and weapons. The Falcon takes a HS slot, has smaller cap and an additional weapon, with a decidedly higher points cost. The Wave Serpent uses no FoC slot, has a twinlinked primary weapon, higher transport cap and the energy field as well as being decidedly cheaper. By the codex entries alone, the Wave Serpent is superior.
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/10/04 21:35:36
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 22:47:50
Subject: Wave Serpent or Falcon?
|
 |
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
|
I'm hoping your reply was a long winded pedantic masterpiece of sarcasm and not a serious reply (rhetoric and all that, so to speak).
My point was that one is limited to your Heavy Choices and can carry any deploy with any unit of 6 in your army whereas the other can be taken in varieties up to the amount of unit you have but it requires you take a unit first and can only deploy with that unit.
It's not like you can always simply just make a decision between taking one or the other.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/04 22:48:41
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/04 22:51:07
Subject: Wave Serpent or Falcon?
|
 |
Ichor-Dripping Talos Monstrosity
|
It was partly sarcasm, partly an actual exercise in comparing the entries.
Also - for the Eldar codex.. it pretty much is a decision of one or the other as you please. Only really the Harlequins don't have a choice, so in the vast majority of cases any unit that can be deployed in the Falcon can be deployed in the Wave Serpent, which is a cheaper more durable tank.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/05 00:30:56
Subject: Wave Serpent or Falcon?
|
 |
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
|
That's not my point as you'll see above; you want a Falcon you better have a Heavy Slot ready, you want a Wave Serpent you better have points left to buy a unit to take one. These choices aren't always going to be open.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/10/05 00:38:23
Subject: Wave Serpent or Falcon?
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Wave Serpent for anything agressive, falcon for anything that can stay back.
Serpents shields are amazing.
Falcons holo fields are amazing against long range.
|
5000+ pts. Eldar 2500pts
"The only thing that match's the Eldar's firepower, is their arrogance".
8th General at Alamo GT 2011.
Tied 2nd General Alamo GT 2012
Top General Lower Bracket Railhead 2011
Top General Railhead 2012
# of Local Tournaments Won: 4
28-9-1 In Tournaments As Eldar.
Maintained a 75% Win Ratio As Eldar in 5th Edition GT's.
|
|
 |
 |
|