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"they're complete badasses without going overboard into stupidity"

What? They take SM who already are the most elite, super-awesome, Mary Sue, bestest fightan mans ever! Then have GK and say they are even better versions of that. It's for that reason that I hate GK more than anything (ok except SW).

If SM are warriors monks, all GK do is add more warrior and more monk.

Plus killing all the guys who helped you win is not cool man.

It is a great pity the GK are showing their age, because they are complete badasses. Though I may disagree with Melissia in terms of general marine fluff, I have to say I agree with the GK being awesome.
Who knows, perhaps the new codex will bring some of that greatness to the tabletop?

EDIT: Okay, that whole ruthlessness thing does kind of annoy me, but I still like them. Still, Anyone who is willing to go toe-to-toe with Daemons on a regular basis is deserving of respect.

asimo77 wrote:Plus killing all the guys who helped you win is not cool man.

While I agree with you, there's something to be said for killing them so that the taint of the Warp can't take hold and damn them forever.

Tough love, as it were.

I think Grey Knight are along wih Black Templars the quintessence of SM; they are closer to their original concept than anyone else. Genetically modified zealots without personality or personal interest apart from die at the orders of the emperor, pretty much like the Sardaukar.

And yes, they deserve way more attention than half of the current marine chapters.

asimo77 wrote:"they're complete badasses without going overboard into stupidity"

What? They take SM who already are the most elite, super-awesome, Mary Sue, bestest fightan mans ever! Then have GK and say they are even better versions of that. It's for that reason that I hate GK more than anything (ok except SW).

If SM are warriors monks, all GK do is add more warrior and more monk.

Plus killing all the guys who helped you win is not cool man.

I really don't agree with Space Marines being mary sues but its true that they are just "genetically engineered Supersoldier warrior monks X2". Like Space Marines......but better.

Little lord Fauntleroy wrote:See, I've never liked the Daemonhunters for the 'super-man' feel the Grey Knights have. I don't know, I guess I just like flaws. You make a lot of good points though.

Same here. Imagine if you made a fan-character who was stronger than any Space Marine, had powerful psychic abilities, was totally incorruptible and pure, only appeared on super secret missions, and was the only one who could ever take down the strongest daemons.

Yeah, the Grey Knights are pretty much the bestest of the best in everything, and I just don't like how extreme that is. Which is a shame, because their models ARE beautiful.

Necroman wrote:Yeah, the Grey Knights are pretty much the bestest of the best in everything, and I just don't like how extreme that is. Which is a shame, because their models ARE beautiful.

They're also completely ruthless and will turn on and exterminate their own allies after fighting the Daemons. That's a pretty serious character flaw.

Monster Rain wrote:They're also completely ruthless and will turn on and exterminate their own allies after fighting the Daemons. That's a pretty serious character flaw.

Depends on the depiction, from what I can tell. Would have been hilarious if they did that in The Killing Ground (Which sucked, btw). Being ruthless isn't exactly a flaw in 40k, but the turning on allies thing does definitely count.

Still, I just find them boring in concept. To be fair, Necrons are also boring in concept, so it's more just weird taste.

Monster Rain wrote:

Necroman wrote:Yeah, the Grey Knights are pretty much the bestest of the best in everything, and I just don't like how extreme that is. Which is a shame, because their models ARE beautiful.

They're also completely ruthless and will turn on and exterminate their own allies after fighting the Daemons. That's a pretty serious character flaw.

That's the caveat that makes them tolerable. The are just weapons, not people. The reach that level of unstoppableness by giving up all vestiges of humanity. That's why I don't really want to read The Grey knights books. I'm sure it humanizes them, which IMO is wrong. A Grey Knight with a personality isn't doing a good job of being a Grey Knight.

Grey Knights and SoB are some of the last grimdark races left.

Space Marines are a bit 12 year old fanwank when it comes to fluff, orks are a JOKE (not serious, never deep)

I love GK just for their fluff.

Wait, now the complaint is that 40k is not grimdark enough anymore?

I thought Melissia's summary was spot on, guess it's just me.

See, and I personally loathe the GK for their fluff.

You have Guardsman, who exist for their numbers. Standard rank-and-file get the job done kind of guys. Then you have Space Marines, the uber-elite. The guys that you drop 100 of 'em down when you REALLY need something dead. And then you have Grey Knights, who just do the job of Space Marines... only you only need 10 of 'em! Well.. if you call in the Space Marines to kill stuff the Guard can't, and you kill in the Grey Knights to kill stuff the Space Marines can't, why have the goddamn Space Marines?

Maybe it's just my view of 40K, that the Guard is really what wins wars, and you might see some Space Marines going after vital targets, and that's about it, then the Grey Knights serve no purpose other than to make super-soldier super-soldiers. Which is just, in my opinion, ridiculous.

That being said, I do love their models, but I don't think they need their own codex.

The GKs are the elite Space Marines. They can't be everywhere because the fact that you have to be so much more badass than a Space Marine, pass the screening and be a psykers to boot makes the pool of prospective GKs pretty small.

Grey Knight exist to fight a VERY specific enemy. Daemons.
Normal marines can fight them sure but they will take heavy losses, Grey Knights however are made just to fight against daemons.
Grey Knights are also the armed part of the Ordo Malleus the inquisitors find the daemons and the Grey Knights crush them and anyone who had heard of them.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

asimo77 wrote:"they're complete badasses without going overboard into stupidity"

What? They take SM who already are the most elite, super-awesome, Mary Sue, bestest fightan mans ever! Then have GK and say they are even better versions of that. It's for that reason that I hate GK more than anything (ok except SW).

If SM are warriors monks, all GK do is add more warrior and more monk.

Plus killing all the guys who helped you win is not cool man.

I really don't agree with Space Marines being mary sues

BWAHAHAHA

Retribution wrote:BWAHAHAHA

Considering how vague and nonsensical the term has become due to overusage, it's hard to label anything as "Mary sue."

The weakness with space marines is that they can only beat what they can hit and shoot. Daemons, they can not, at least not without difficulty; and that is where grey knights. They have weapons specifically made for fighting daemons, and an all around last resort weapon.

Necroman wrote:

Retribution wrote:BWAHAHAHA

Considering how vague and nonsensical the term has become due to overusage, it's hard to label anything as "Mary sue."

When you have Marines showing up in other codices just to show off how OMFG-MAHREENS-R-AWESOME, they're mary friggin sues, and GKs are the Mary Sues of the Mary Sues

Jaon wrote:orks are a JOKE (not serious, never deep)

No.

How are Orks deep?

No seriously, I really want to know. I remember asking this question earlier, but I didn't see any response.

I will get to them whenever I cover the faction. Look beyond the so-called "comic relief".

Melissa I so far agree with everything you have said.

...Except for liking orks. They are not even stupid funny. The only thing I even LIKE about them is the ragtag of the equipment and vehicles.

Except I think Chaos is overrated rather then uninteresting. But Chaos in fantasy is one of the most badass thing's I have ever seen.

Melissia wrote:I will get to them whenever I cover the faction. Look beyond the so-called "comic relief".

Kay, I'll take your word for it.

@Necroman: Just because Ork's aren't sitting around discussing Kierkegaard doesn't mean they aren't capable of complex motives and retrospection. For one thing, Ork identity seems to vacillate easily between the individual and the species. I guess the question to you is what do you mean by deep?

Orks have a lot of depth! Just look at their deities, for example. One is kunnin' but brutal, and the other is brutal but kunnin'.

Literally makes the cover of the current CSM dex look like gak in comparison.

I like the first Codex: Chaos cover.

Even if it is ridiculously old-looking.

Manchu wrote:@Necroman: Just because Ork's aren't sitting around discussing Kierkegaard doesn't mean they aren't capable of complex motives and retrospection. For one thing, Ork identity seems to vacillate easily between the individual and the species. I guess the question to you is what do you mean by deep?

Actually dealing with the self identity and emotions that one feels, and how one Ork might differ from another in its goals or dreams or whatnot.

Eh, I'll just wait for Melissa's entry for Orks, to see what she means.

Shadowbrand wrote:

Literally makes the cover of the current CSM dex look like gak in comparison.

I have to admit, that I cowered a bit when I saw that just suddenly pop out from loading....

THAT IS BADASS!

And exactly why after I make a Dark Eldar army. I will remake my Chaos Warrior's army.

Probably going to be mono Nurgle or Khorne.