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As far as Marine Chapters go, I prefer BTs, but I have to say that I do not share in the (from what I've heard) fairly common negative feelings towards the Ultramarines.

Some might say they're bland, but on the other hand their strict adherence to the Codex Astartes could very well be seen as a defining feature. They serve as paragons, both hindered as well as bolstered by their dogmatic positions.

Others might say they are Mary-Sues, but as has been pointed out, this goes for many other Chapters as well - and there are quite a few who are worse. I may not have read everything the UM did in hard GW canon, but regardless of what it was, it could not have been as astonishing as killing millions upon millions of Guardsmen with an undermanned garrison that withstood months of orbital bombardment, and beating back the entire Segmentum Pacifica Battlefleet with a flotilla of Battle Barges. Given such remarkable victories it seems to be clear why not even the Inquisition dares to pick a fight with the Wolves, though it begs the question why they didn't conquer the Eye of Terror yet.

But seriously, there's much worse out there than the Ultras. I reckon it just takes time until the attention of the masses changes. Ultramarines have been the focal point of stories telling of their awesomeness for decades, I think, so it's reasonable that the old cliché doesn't switch as fast as it maybe should.

As stated before, the UM are the butt of many jokes because GW has declared them the scions of perfection, backed it up with their fluff (even though if you dig a little deeper, they come off as incompetents or slothful responders to galaxy-wide problems.)

I have fun poking fun at the UM (GW for their lame carrying out of setting them as the ultimate icon) but gamewise, as I have said before, the UM ability to elect to run away (somehow apropo) is a very powerful ability probably only second to SW counterattack.

Besides the fact that I am a Dark Angel fan. I have always liked a "perfect" chapter to the outside with a not-so-admirable secret. Kind of like Michael Vick ( rated 20th of all active players and talked about as being the league MVP. Certainly admirable but then we have the personal mistake. He is not trying to say he is perfect but admits a dumb criminal mistake and he is trying to move on.) I can handle the space vikings or the space vampires as again they have their weaknesses (impetuousness/blood drinkers).

Personnally the GK are on the verge of being laughed at UM-like with the fluff but we will wait and see. They have a decade plus of sickening GW propaganda to catch up to before they can equal the UM.

DAaddict wrote:As stated before, the UM are the butt of many jokes because GW has declared them the scions of perfection, backed it up with their fluff (even though if you dig a little deeper, they come off as incompetents or slothful responders to galaxy-wide problems.)

Yes, if by "dig a little deeper" you mean referencing 4chan. And yes, I realize the irony of being the one that copy and pasted that very article earlier in this thread.

But it's true enough that the ratio of fluff saying Ultramarines are super awesome vs. fluff showing Ultramarines are super awesome is pretty big.

Omegus wrote:But it's true enough that the ratio of fluff saying Ultramarines are super awesome vs. fluff showing Ultramarines are super awesome is pretty big.

Which is pretty ironic, given that other Chapters have a similar ratio, only inversed.

Omegus wrote:

DAaddict wrote:As stated before, the UM are the butt of many jokes because GW has declared them the scions of perfection, backed it up with their fluff (even though if you dig a little deeper, they come off as incompetents or slothful responders to galaxy-wide problems.)

Yes, if by "dig a little deeper" you mean referencing 4chan. And yes, I realize the irony of being the one that copy and pasted that very article earlier in this thread.

But it's true enough that the ratio of fluff saying Ultramarines are super awesome vs. fluff showing Ultramarines are super awesome is pretty big.

Yes, I agree, but IMO it does not constitute hatred of the so-called "smurfs".

forruner_mercy wrote:

Omegus wrote:

DAaddict wrote:As stated before, the UM are the butt of many jokes because GW has declared them the scions of perfection, backed it up with their fluff (even though if you dig a little deeper, they come off as incompetents or slothful responders to galaxy-wide problems.)

Yes, if by "dig a little deeper" you mean referencing 4chan. And yes, I realize the irony of being the one that copy and pasted that very article earlier in this thread.

But it's true enough that the ratio of fluff saying Ultramarines are super awesome vs. fluff showing Ultramarines are super awesome is pretty big.

Yes, I agree, but IMO it does not constitute hatred of the so-called "smurfs".

One mans derision is perceived as hatred. So I don't buy the GW propaganda of "perfection=ultramarines." Doesn't mean I hate them just that I am not a drone buying everything that is told.

Well, that "propaganda" makes sense if you only consider the Primogenitor chapters and their progeny. All successor chapters venerate their parent chapter, so given that more than half of the Astartes currently active in the Imperium were derived from the Ultramarines, it's only logical for them to venerate the rulers of Ultramar.

What was galling is that Matt Ward included all the non-Ultra chapters in the number of those who "aspire to be like the Ultramarines". I'm sure they all respect them to varying degrees, but somehow I doubt a chapter like Space Wolves or Black Templar want to be like the Ultras (although arguments could be made for Blood/Dark Angels).

i agree, doubt the SW want to be like UM, lol

Omegus wrote:Well, that "propaganda" makes sense if you only consider the Primogenitor chapters and their progeny. All successor chapters venerate their parent chapter, so given that more than half of the Astartes currently active in the Imperium were derived from the Ultramarines, it's only logical for them to venerate the rulers of Ultramar.

What was galling is that Matt Ward included all the non-Ultra chapters in the number of those who "aspire to be like the Ultramarines". I'm sure they all respect them to varying degrees, but somehow I doubt a chapter like Space Wolves or Black Templar want to be like the Ultras (although arguments could be made for Blood/Dark Angels).

I think you completely nailed it on the head, though its arguable if even the IF want to be like the boys in blue, they were more of forced to join in the whole Codex thing

They are Smurf's

My word, this thread yet lives?

Hugs-for-the-Hug-God wrote:They are Smurf's

Smurf's what? No wait, don't answer that.

Blue and white lol

Damn, walked into that one.

Lead by papa smurf (ie Marneaus calgar)

papa smurf can smash many foes, and can have his smurfs in space shoot some smurf lasers at you, so be careful when insulting the smurfs...

They tried to kill me... I was rightly offended at this breach in protocol.

Well, ya smurf's will be boiled in my sorcerer's soup (ie dark apostels ie word bearers)




Automatically Appended Next Post:
An' me boyz crushed some smurf's at dat battle, what da ya 'umies call it? oh yeah armageddon
in fact me battlewagon 'aves a smurf attached to da front Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh!

:

purplefood wrote:They tried to kill me... I was rightly offended at this breach in protocol.

lolol, that took me a second to figure out, but then i was like "oooooooooh, i get it "

I hate them because I play Angry Marines

Jon Touchdown wrote:I hate them because I play Angry Marines

Sometimes, it is just fun to play as one of those guys. Just GAAAAAAAAH I WANT TO KILL YOU ALL BJASDKLJASKLFJSLKJFKLJSKLJKLSAJKLF.
Except x1000. And more grimdark.

Jon Touchdown wrote:I hate them because I play Angry Marines

Don't all tratior marines hate all loyalist marines?

Angry Marines are extremely loyal. Suggesting otherwise makes them very very angry.

Its because they are too widely known and that they are used for everything for example the new space marine game and the box for assault on black reach

Also, they never actually do anything besides say "We're the best Space Marines anywhere."

Durza wrote:Also, they never actually do anything besides say "We're the best Space Marines anywhere."

Where at exactly?

where do people keep getting the "fact" that Ultramarines do nothing, half the stories in novels, codex and other mediums are about the ultramarines fighting. sooooo...

dajobe wrote:where do people keep getting the "fact" that Ultramarines do nothing, half the stories in novels, codex and other mediums are about the ultramarines fighting. sooooo...

Most of the really big fights didn't involve Ultramarines and the ones that did kinda turned into a pyrrhic victory rather than a total success.

dajobe wrote:where do people keep getting the "fact" that Ultramarines do nothing, half the stories in novels, codex and other mediums are about the ultramarines fighting. sooooo...

From their bottomless wells of futile nerd-rage. Personally, I find cherry picking the fluff you like and simply ignoring that which you don't makes for a much more enjoyable hobby, with 65% less groundless hatred!

Pretend Toy-Soldier Universes: Being better when adjusted to taste since 1997!

purplefood wrote:Most of the really big fights didn't involve Ultramarines and the ones that did kinda turned into a pyrrhic victory rather than a total success.

Yeah, I still have to see anything similar to the Plague of Unbelief from the Ultras.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Plague_of_Unbelief

I mean, come on.

htj wrote:

dajobe wrote:where do people keep getting the "fact" that Ultramarines do nothing, half the stories in novels, codex and other mediums are about the ultramarines fighting. sooooo...

From their bottomless wells of futile nerd-rage. Personally, I find cherry picking the fluff you like and simply ignoring that which you don't makes for a much more enjoyable hobby, with 65% less groundless hatred!

Pretend Toy-Soldier Universes: Being better when adjusted to taste since 1997!

lol, i think everyone is guilty of picking the fluff they like, im guilty of it, i ignore every SW an Eldar achievement ever, because i hate them, even though i am sure they have done some reputable things