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Just adding to my post above, I was looking at the Varanguard today and stats wise they are comparable to Dracothian Guard.

So I compared their profiles and while I think overall that Concussors are better than the Varanguard with Ensorcelled Weapon (their most expensive build) I do not believe that they are 40 points worth better...

Now I can't say if the Varanguard is fairly prized to begin with but when comparing the two units a 40 points difference is pretty big.

Just some questions.

When casting a summoning spell does it give the opponent an extra unbind attempt or does it only let him ignore the range on the unbind attempt?

A Slann can only attempt to summon a unit once per turn right?

Overhamsteren wrote:
When casting a summoning spell does it give the opponent an extra unbind attempt or does it only let him ignore the range on the unbind attempt?

You just ignore the range, which is no small thing in my opinion and gives much balance to summoning...

Overhamsteren wrote:
A Slann can only attempt to summon a unit once per turn right?

Summoning can only be done once per turn per wizard, since there is only one summon spell (this assumes you purchased it). The exception is undead, who have a mini-raise zombie spell that can also be purchased.

What is the reasoning for making skink handlers a 10+ model unit?

Some kind of 5 razordon unit + 3 handlers abuse or something?

Seems 10 handlers are not worth it unless you bring a lot of salamanders/razordons in your army?

Overhamsteren wrote:
What is the reasoning for making skink handlers a 10+ model unit?

Some kind of 5 razordon unit + 3 handlers abuse or something?

Seems 10 handlers are not worth it unless you bring a lot of salamanders/razordons in your army?

If I had to guess I'd say the skink entry was copy-pasted and he forgot to change the number.

Though at any rate I feel like handlers should be a unit that costs more for the first one then less to add, because the relevant abilities trigger off any number of handlers. As it stands there is no reason (beyond finishing deployment first) not to take handlers at the minimum size possible. Especially if it is changed to match the warscroll, in which case it would be far more advantageous to take 10 units of 1 rather than the reverse.

Yeah the unit is a bit more complicated to prize than most I suppose, right now I just miss the aesthetic of 1 beast+3 handlers and 2 beasts+6 handlers.

Units of 1 handler each look stupid too of course.

Rules wise I guess the beasts work just fine without handlers.

And I guess the handlers are not useless either besides buffing beasts(and kroxies) they do have 8 move and 10 bravery for scenario jamming stuff?

The next round of battalion point costs has been chosen! Everchosen, that is.

[Slaanesh] Pleasurebound Warband - 150 pts. Previously costed, but placed here again for convenience.

[Khorne] Bloodmarked Warband - 300 pts. Unlike the Slaanesh option, the other gods' battalions here have their main benefits outside the multiples-of-X requirement.

[Tzeentch] Fatesworn Warband - 400 pts.

[Nurgle] Plaguetouched Warband - 400 pts.

[Undivided] Overlords of Chaos - 350 pts, or 75 if using set turns.

[Undivided] Archaeon's Grand Host - 250 pts. The Daemonic Pacts ability can only summon up to 100 points at a time. Sidenote: if someone plays this send me a picture of it!

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

Overhamsteren wrote:
What is the reasoning for making skink handlers a 10+ model unit?

Some kind of 5 razordon unit + 3 handlers abuse or something?

Seems 10 handlers are not worth it unless you bring a lot of salamanders/razordons in your army?

If I had to guess I'd say the skink entry was copy-pasted and he forgot to change the number.

Though at any rate I feel like handlers should be a unit that costs more for the first one then less to add, because the relevant abilities trigger off any number of handlers. As it stands there is no reason (beyond finishing deployment first) not to take handlers at the minimum size possible. Especially if it is changed to match the warscroll, in which case it would be far more advantageous to take 10 units of 1 rather than the reverse.

Actually not a copy-paste error. In the early days we thought that purchasing 1 of them was abuseable, but since then we've made every battleplan score VP:s for wiping out units which means having just one of the handlers is a sure way of giving away VP:s I've not bothered to change it because no-one have commented on it, but I have no objections to change it for next update. Also, could be a good thing to make the first cost alitte bit more...but with their stats I'm not sure it's even worth bothering about that.

Also, thanks for all the new Battalions, Ninth! I'm overly busy at work these weeks so my work on the PPC is not quite as high as it used to be, but I aim to have all new ones integrated soon!

Attilla wrote:
Also, thanks for all the new Battalions, Ninth!

Thanks! Though perhaps you could tell me, do you know if anyone has been using them? I am getting the sense that no one actually cares...

At any rate, behold battalions for the Balanced Quest of Ghal Maraz Power!

[Stormcast] Devastation Brotherhood - 200 pts

[Stormcast] Annihilation Brotherhood - 75 pts

[Stormcast] Grymn's Brotherhood - 400 pts

[Stormcast] Ecelsior Vengeful Storm - 100 pts

[Fyreslayers] Arngard's Berzerker Fyrd - 100 pts

[Sylvaneth] Alarielle's Heartwood Guard - 275 pts

[Khorne] Vengeful Skullhunt - 100 pts

[Nurgle] Blighted Warband - 325 pts

[Nurgle] Nurgle's Deluge - 200 pts

[Nurgle] Torglug's Foulblessed - 125 pts

[Tzeentch] Watcher King's Horde - 250 pts

[Slaanesh] Lascilion's Horde - 150 pts. Note that this battalion still allows one roll on the triumph table for games that are not using the major victory rules (which I suspect is all of them).

[Skaven] Skulker's of Runestruck Pass - 300 pts

[Death] Neferata's Blood-Court - 175 pts


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ohhhh Attilla!

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/PDF/fw_warscrolls/aos-monstrous-arcanum.pdf

We, the community, will be expecting this to be fully calculated and the point costs posted within the next three hours.

[/sarcasm]

Alas, Easter holidays got the best of me - so Arcanum had to suffer from it Will be done tomorrow when I get back home though.

So far I haven't received much feedback on the battalion points (but I have had some!), but that could be because people either find them fine as is, or because I haven't updated the files with more than your original batch of battalions yet. When I add more of them, which should be this week, maybe people will begin to use them more and offer input on them.

Well I have tried Skyborne Slayers with my Stormcast Eternals army and the cost seems fine more or less.

G'day everyone!

The Monstrous Arcanum from Forge World has now had their units pointified! We have yet to decide if we should put this up as a seperate list on the PPC page, or if we should put each entry with their corresponding Grand Alliance (destruction, death etc.). What do you guys (and gals!) think?

Here are the goodies (any abilities that need a certain realm is always active):



Basilisk
125 pts

Bonegrinder Giant
310 pts

Carmine Dragon
560 pts

Colossal Squig
290 pts

Curs'd Ettin
210 pts

Dread Maw
470 pts

3 Fimir Warriors for 140 pts
- Additional Fimir Warriors cost +46 pts / model.
- Must have either Hand Weapons for free, or Mauls for +5 pts / model.
- Upgrade to
-- Banner Bearer for +15 pts
-- Fimraich Noble (max. 1) for +10 pts
-- Hunting Horns for +10 pts..

Incarnate Elemental of Beasts
355 pts

Incarnate Elemental of Fire
340 pts

Magma Dragon
900 pts

Merwyrm
280 pts

Mourngul
385 pts

Squig Gobba
25 pts
(Did they forget something when they made this one - seems like rubbish!)

Preyton
200 pts

Rogue Idol of Gork (or Possibly Mork)
450 pts

Brood Horror
125 pts

Skaven Warlord on Brood Horror
265 pts

3 Skin Wolves for 210 pts
Additional Skin Wolves cost +70 pts / model.

5 Wolf Rats for 90 pts
Additional Wolf Rats cost +18 pts / model.

Troll Hag
380 pts

Warpfire Dragon
220 pts

First off, looks pretty good overall except for the basilisk, am I missing something because 125 pts is dirt cheap for its mortal wound potential... It has an average of 1.1 mortal wounds per gaze attack, and it starts off with 5. It really isn't meant for melee, rather park it in cover and just use it's gaze. That alone is worth more than 125 points. On a separate note, ditto on the squg gobba, it's absolutely terrible! Better to use it as a stone thrower, unfortunately.

As for alliance, while it might be a bit subjecticlve I think it would be best to split them between alliances and the mercenary section based on what they are. Squigs, rogue idol, and hag in destruction. Order, death, and chaos keep the ones categorized to them, and the rest go to the mercenary section since they aren't explicitly tied to destruction beyond the keyword.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
First off, looks pretty good overall except for the basilisk, am I missing something because 125 pts is dirt cheap for its mortal wound potential... It has an average of 1.1 mortal wounds per gaze attack, and it starts off with 5. It really isn't meant for melee, rather park it in cover and just use it's gaze. That alone is worth more than 125 points. On a separate note, ditto on the squg gobba, it's absolutely terrible! Better to use it as a stone thrower, unfortunately.

As for alliance, while it might be a bit subjecticlve I think it would be best to split them between alliances and the mercenary section based on what they are. Squigs, rogue idol, and hag in destruction. Order, death, and chaos keep the ones categorized to them, and the rest go to the mercenary section since they aren't explicitly tied to destruction beyond the keyword.

You are certainly not missing anything, and thanks to your keen eyes and comment I realized I messed my mathematical skill up when calculating the amount of mortal wounds the basilisk does! After the change it went up to 175 pts, which I think is a better starting value for it before feedback from gameplay. So cheers Ninth!

I think I agree on where to place the warscrolls - since the alliance keyword itself isn't neccessarily the defining one. Things like Brood Horrors clearly belong to one of them, others do not.

FWIW I'd be very interested in seeing the battalion costs updated to the docs - my group are just getting started with AoS but I already see several battalions I would like to take and right now it's hard to figure out what the costs should be - some of them have some pretty nice bonuses

Thanks all for the great work on this comp system, btw! I'm really liking what I'm seeing; still very flexible to take fluffy lists but at least with something to hang a degree of equivalency off.

Only just seen this and it helps to no end, so great work guys


Only thing that has me thinking though:

Night goblin squig herders are in units of 10 for 30 points.
Is the unit of herders intentionally large?

Just curious as even before, most people would run 4-6 in a unit at the most.
And considering the herd pack is £15 for 2 herders and 3 squigs, you'd need to buy 5 packs alone for the herders.

 Jackal wrote:
Only thing that has me thinking though:

Night goblin squig herders are in units of 10 for 30 points.
Is the unit of herders intentionally large?

Just curious as even before, most people would run 4-6 in a unit at the most.
And considering the herd pack is £15 for 2 herders and 3 squigs, you'd need to buy 5 packs alone for the herders.

This was brought up in regards to skink handlers as well, Atilla is going to change it with the next update. In the meantime I'm sure no one will have a problem with you bringing 5 for half the points.

Thanks
Just found it a bit odd, that was all.


Nice to be able to build an army list with points again!

Hey!

Managed to check the new heroes for Khorne Bloodbound today, and here's the result:

Added the Aspiring Deathbringer w. Goreaxe and Skullhammer as a new option due to ability variation from the original A. Deathbringer.
110 pts

The Impaling Spear has been added as a free option to the Exalted Deathbringer.

The Slaughterpriest has been updated with the Hackblade and Wrath-hammer as a free upgrade option. Its base cost has been reduced to 95 pts, with the Bloodbathed Axe as a +10 pts upgrade.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Jackal wrote:
Only thing that has me thinking though:

Night goblin squig herders are in units of 10 for 30 points.
Is the unit of herders intentionally large?

Just curious as even before, most people would run 4-6 in a unit at the most.
And considering the herd pack is £15 for 2 herders and 3 squigs, you'd need to buy 5 packs alone for the herders.

This was brought up in regards to skink handlers as well, Atilla is going to change it with the next update. In the meantime I'm sure no one will have a problem with you bringing 5 for half the points.

Yup, just confirming it will be changed for the next major update.

Hy gyes, thy nyxt battalyons ayre fyr Fireslayers!

[Fyreslayers] Lords of the Lodge - 200 pts, or 125 if not rolling for initiative.

[Fyreslayers] Warrior Kinband - 150 pts

[Fyreslayers] Forge Brethren - 225 pts. Note the wording is a bit vague here, but I am pointing it with the interpretation that only one unit may create a bulwark per turn.

[Fyreslayers] Grand Fyrd - 50 pts. The Oaths of Battle rule is ignored.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also a few of the Start Collecting box battalions I've been able to track down:

[Seraphon] Gul'Rok's Starhost - 125 pts

[Skaven] The Virulent Horde - 100 pts. I am pointing this with the interpretation that the mortal wound is in addition to any normal damage of the attack (and that saves will be rolled normally for that damage).

[Nurgle] Glugurous' Plagueband - 175 pts.

[Khorne] Skall'Uk's Slaughterband - 175 pts.

In response to the recent blog post requesting stormcast extremis feedback; the tempestors (crossbow guys) need to have a "unit tax" in that the initial one costs more while additional models cost less to add. And this should probably be a big unit tax, since their ability is so powerful. It is literally pick a unit within 12" and that unit gets -1 to hit until your next hero phase, the unit does not have to score any wounds (or even hits) with their crossbows for the penalty to apply.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
In response to the recent blog post requesting stormcast extremis feedback; the tempestors (crossbow guys) need to have a "unit tax" in that the initial one costs more while additional models cost less to add. And this should probably be a big unit tax, since their ability is so powerful. It is literally pick a unit within 12" and that unit gets -1 to hit until your next hero phase, the unit does not have to score any wounds (or even hits) with their crossbows for the penalty to apply.

True, would be a good idea.

Also, the blog post Ninth is referring to is this:

Hi all!

In about two or three weeks time, we will make the update to PPC v2016.05.

This means it's time to let us know about any and all concerns you have about units - does something cost too much? Too little? Let us know now please, so we can evaluate better for the update. Also let us know why you think the cost is too high/low.


We are especially looking for more input on things like the Stardrake and Dracoth Guards. As it stands, we have people thinking they cost too much, but also people who think they should cost the same (even more in a rare few cases). So if you have used them - don't hesitate to let us know how you feel about them. As it stands now, their cost will be lowered, but by how much?..

You can either write directly here on the blog, or at our Dakkadakka thread, or by mailing me:
attillaq3 (at) gmail.com.

Cheers and thanks for all the feedback and support!!

So keep the good ideas and suggestions coming, please

In time for the next update, Grand Alliance Order battalions!

[Stormcast] Warrior Brotherhood - 150 pts

[Seraphon] Bloodclaw Starhost - 200 pts

[Seraphon] Heavanswrath Starhost - 325 pts. The potential of Bastiladons which heal one wound a round drove the price way up.

[Sylvaneth] Forest Spirit Wargrove - 100 pts

[Human] Pilgrimage of Wrath - 100 pts

[Human] Freeguild Regiment - 75 pts

[Human] War Council - Free

[Human/Dwarf] Artillery Detachment - 75 pts

[Duradin] Grudgebound War Throng - 200 pts

[Aelf] Spyreheart Warhost - 75 pts, +25 per Phoenix included.

[Aelf] Dragonlord Host - 125 pts

[Aelf] Realm Reavers - 175 pts

[Aelf] Bloodwrack Sisterhood - 75 pts

[Aelf] Thrall Warhost - 175 pts

[Aelf] Ebondrake Warhost - 100 pts

[Aelf] Waystone Pathfinders - 300 pts

Others things I've found:

Find a way to raise the cost for the Flame canon and engineer interaction . This guy is a real wrecker with the possibility to do 2D6 mortal wound each turn. His basic capacity to do D3 Wound is ok and not to OP but raising it to D6 is clearly badass. Maybe you could integrate a tax to the engineer regarding which machine he could cover up. Grunge expertise = X points, powder expertise = X+10 points, flame expertise = X+20 points. Each level of expertise include the precedent level. An engineer cannot cover up for a machine which he doesn't have the expertise for. So a Grunge expertise level engineer can cover up for balista and rockthrower but not for any type of canon.

Watch out the points for some units:
-Some Fyreslayer ''basic'' units cost seems to be too cheap. Giving mortal wounds on a hit + 3+ is truly great and the interaction to have a 4+ rerollable armor save + 4+ Feel no pain like save is great.
-Irondrakes. They have a great potential like stormcast judicators skybow but cost only 10 points less?
-Stormcast heraldor. That guy is a true bitch. He really provide great opportunity in a Stormcast army. Run/charge, Retreat/charge and soundwave blasting is really good.

Raise the cost of certain upgrades when they are used by champions. Clearly, when I use Stormcast judicator or protector, I will put the weapon upgrade on the prime. Having a +1 to hit or two attack is too damn good to pass up. There should be something factoring this fact.

Warscrolls Bataillons... Well, while I really appreciate the idea of putting cost to them I find it silly. Let say I decide to play a 1000 pts game with my buddy. We will both take unit and leave bataillon behind since they can easily take 10-20% of my list. But if we play another match at 3000 pts, then it will be much easier! And since almost every bataillon do not offer fixed choice (no hard number for units, it's one unit of unlimited models) you can't really factor it appropriately. I would suggest to use a percentage (%) for each and every Bataillon. That way, when building an 3000+ pts army, you would still feel you should invest points and it would be possible to use them at 700 pts if you want.

That being said, I also think that some bataillons can be overcosted. The Tzeentch cohort one, at 750 pts, is truly a joke. Nobody can play this and expect to win, specially since summoning have been somewhat corrected in the PPC.

And if we've already started adjusting Bataillons cost, I'm sorry. I can't really keep up with all the upgrades.

This is my 2 cents.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
In time for the next update, Grand Alliance Order battalions!

[Stormcast] Warrior Brotherhood - 150 pts

[Seraphon] Bloodclaw Starhost - 200 pts

[Seraphon] Heavanswrath Starhost - 325 pts. The potential of Bastiladons which heal one wound a round drove the price way up.

[Sylvaneth] Forest Spirit Wargrove - 100 pts

[Human] Pilgrimage of Wrath - 100 pts

[Human] Freeguild Regiment - 75 pts

[Human] War Council - Free

[Human/Dwarf] Artillery Detachment - 75 pts

[Duradin] Grudgebound War Throng - 200 pts

[Aelf] Spyreheart Warhost - 75 pts, +25 per Phoenix included.

[Aelf] Dragonlord Host - 125 pts

[Aelf] Realm Reavers - 175 pts

[Aelf] Bloodwrack Sisterhood - 75 pts

[Aelf] Thrall Warhost - 175 pts

[Aelf] Ebondrake Warhost - 100 pts

[Aelf] Waystone Pathfinders - 300 pts

Always a pleasure Ninth! These go up on the blog today and into the lists on May update
Thank you!!

babyberg31 wrote:
Others things I've found:

This is my 2 cents.

And very good cents it is - lots of fine feedback there!
Some things I think you are right on, but don't think we will do because it interfere or adds to the game rules (the engineer part - we don't want to increase the amount of rules if we can help it).
Others will probably be done - the X weapon upgrade on champions could definately cost more than on a grunt!
We'll definately take a closer look at the unit costs you've provided.

As for battalions, I'll gather some input on them and pass them along here first so we can discuss it. Then make changes for the update

Battalions are costed assuming 1500-2500 (or in some cases a bit larger) point games. It is indeed difficult to factor in how they are more or less potent at certain points levels, but in the end 3000+ point games are already going to be seeing balance break down anyways and are also more likely to be casual games than competitive ones. I considered doing a % cost but then the issue becomes that no one will want to factor in that math. As for the costs themselves, I leaned on the high side so it's likely many of them will need to go down. Though in defense of the Tzeentch battalion, I have played it and won; the thing gives you 5 extra spells a turn!

Just noticed the Cogsmith still has weapon options despite his warscroll coming with everything by default now.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Just noticed the Cogsmith still has weapon options despite his warscroll coming with everything by default now.

Thanks, will fix for May update!

Point Costs for the Ironjawz Orruks from the leaked images here on the blog