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Now I see what you mean. Yes, in that case I can see how AOS makes the mighty into the mundane. I don’t believe most fantasy games go that crazy, though. ASOIAF, KOW, ASOBAH, etc., all seem about as “high fantasy” as the Old World to me. Conquest and Runewars might be, but I don’t know. AOS seems to be more of an exception than a rule.

I do agree that AoS has created some lore problems for itself.

It's not just the whole aspect of the superhuman being common, but also that many of the realms are very hard to work out. Ghur, land of the beasts, is pretty easy to work out how it all fits together - its a huge world teaming with life.

The Realms that confuse are places like the Realm of Metal - where storms of rust; land of metal and pools of molten silver - it all comes together to be almost impossible to imagine in terms of how races live there. What do they eat and drink; how do they farm; plus how do you trade when minerals are typically the basis of most trade systems - when you've a realm where gold, iron, copper etc... are as common as mud?


With the Old World and most standard "fantasy" you can easily impose over it the "faux medieval era" of tropes. Even if the setting never outlines it you can imagine farmers in fields tending crops; buildings; streets; bridges. It gives you a visual base to work from. The AoS realms that doesn't exist and it throws up a lot of questions as to how things work at a most basic level.

It doesn't help that some factions aren't as they are in the stories - Cities of Sigmar in the stories are much closer to steam punk era faction with mechanised machines and walkers. However on the tabletop the most advanced they have is a steamtank, which honestly is pretty much aimed at being top end high medieval tech and quite backward by steampunk tech designs and appearances. I think when GW re-do the Cities of Sigmar range there's going to be some BIG changes coming out for that faction to match them up to the lore.




I also agree that Godbeasts and such can take some of the fun out of a setting when youv'e got to bend over backward to work out how the regular troops and infantry and peoples can survive. Though I think the lore and stories are getting better at this. Plus we've the RPG game coming some time this year and RPG lore books are often far more detailed than wargame ones.

I really like the overall idea and look of the Lumineth Realm Lords.

 Overread wrote:
I do agree that AoS has created some lore problems for itself.

It's not just the whole aspect of the superhuman being common, but also that many of the realms are very hard to work out. Ghur, land of the beasts, is pretty easy to work out how it all fits together - its a huge world teaming with life.

The Realms that confuse are places like the Realm of Metal - where storms of rust; land of metal and pools of molten silver - it all comes together to be almost impossible to imagine in terms of how races live there. What do they eat and drink; how do they farm; plus how do you trade when minerals are typically the basis of most trade systems - when you've a realm where gold, iron, copper etc... are as common as mud?


With the Old World and most standard "fantasy" you can easily impose over it the "faux medieval era" of tropes. Even if the setting never outlines it you can imagine farmers in fields tending crops; buildings; streets; bridges. It gives you a visual base to work from. The AoS realms that doesn't exist and it throws up a lot of questions as to how things work at a most basic level.

It doesn't help that some factions aren't as they are in the stories - Cities of Sigmar in the stories are much closer to steam punk era faction with mechanised machines and walkers. However on the tabletop the most advanced they have is a steamtank, which honestly is pretty much aimed at being top end high medieval tech and quite backward by steampunk tech designs and appearances. I think when GW re-do the Cities of Sigmar range there's going to be some BIG changes coming out for that faction to match them up to the lore.




I also agree that Godbeasts and such can take some of the fun out of a setting when youv'e got to bend over backward to work out how the regular troops and infantry and peoples can survive. Though I think the lore and stories are getting better at this. Plus we've the RPG game coming some time this year and RPG lore books are often far more detailed than wargame ones.

This says a lot about fantasy as a genre on tabletop and fiction, and not in a good way.

 Ghaz wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
I still think the Seraphon are going to get a remake of some sort down the line. Hopefully soon.

A good portion of the Old World models need an update. Seraphon, Skaven, heck a good portion of the Slaves to Darkness are still in need of it (marauders anyone?). It's going to be a steady process of new armies and updated armies for quite a few years yet I'd wager. AoS isn't alone either- armies like Eldar are still running around with a lot of finecast and some really old plastics too.

With Seraphon being between the Lumineth and the Sons of Behemat it's pretty clear to me that all the Seraphon will receive at this time is their ziggurat and maybe some endless spells.

Yeah, unfortunately, its pretty evident that they wont get any new kit

My dream would be for GW to release a Cities of Sigmar like faction of "Normal humans" with the style of the Vinci faction of the game Rise of Legends.

For reference:



Thats how I imagine many of AoS human civilizations. Ok, you can tone them down a little to not be too similar to Kharadron overlords, but you get the idea.

These are a really excellent update for High Elves! Now a lot of people don't seem to like Teclis, and I agree that the pose is not the best. I'm sure he can be improved by some reposing, though given how the pieces are so intricate and connected, that would be tricky. The Sphinx is pure wing though, I with there are rules for using a lone Sphinx without Teclis.

Overread wrote:I do agree that AoS has created some lore problems for itself.

It's not just the whole aspect of the superhuman being common, but also that many of the realms are very hard to work out. Ghur, land of the beasts, is pretty easy to work out how it all fits together - its a huge world teaming with life.

The Realms that confuse are places like the Realm of Metal - where storms of rust; land of metal and pools of molten silver - it all comes together to be almost impossible to imagine in terms of how races live there. What do they eat and drink; how do they farm; plus how do you trade when minerals are typically the basis of most trade systems - when you've a realm where gold, iron, copper etc... are as common as mud?


With the Old World and most standard "fantasy" you can easily impose over it the "faux medieval era" of tropes. Even if the setting never outlines it you can imagine farmers in fields tending crops; buildings; streets; bridges. It gives you a visual base to work from. The AoS realms that doesn't exist and it throws up a lot of questions as to how things work at a most basic level.

It doesn't help that some factions aren't as they are in the stories - Cities of Sigmar in the stories are much closer to steam punk era faction with mechanised machines and walkers. However on the tabletop the most advanced they have is a steamtank, which honestly is pretty much aimed at being top end high medieval tech and quite backward by steampunk tech designs and appearances. I think when GW re-do the Cities of Sigmar range there's going to be some BIG changes coming out for that faction to match them up to the lore.


I also agree that Godbeasts and such can take some of the fun out of a setting when youv'e got to bend over backward to work out how the regular troops and infantry and peoples can survive. Though I think the lore and stories are getting better at this. Plus we've the RPG game coming some time this year and RPG lore books are often far more detailed than wargame ones.

It's those lame arguments from five years ago, they're back! The basic formulation is "x is y so how does z happen?" and basically x is never y. The realm of metal isn't all metal, not everything in the realm of death is dead etc. Malign portents had a short story about a farmer and his corn (wtf!!?) turning into teeth. Farmers exist and they farm stuff much like every other medieval fantasy farmer.

Crimson wrote:These are a really excellent update for High Elves! Now a lot of people don't seem to like Teclis, and I agree that the pose is not the best. I'm sure he can be improved by some reposing, though given how the pieces are so intricate and connected, that would be tricky. The Sphinx is pure wing though, I with there are rules for using a lone Sphinx without Teclis.

The problem is that they've put Teclis floating next to his faithful monstrous friend instead of on it. This slight deviation confuses and angers the grog.

The realm of metal isn't all metal

Which is true, but only been revealed so good two or three years after the launch of AoS. Those abysmal Realmgate Wars campaign books were all about ALL METAL REALM or LIFE LIFE LIFE EVEN MOUNTAINS HAVE CHRISTIAN ROCK BANDS.

JSG, those are very legitimate questions for someone to have.

Overread, there are some things to consider. One is that the closer to the centre of a realm the more normal it is. Two is that citizens are almost always portrayed as 'fighting fire with fire' where they have found means to survive what initially seems unsurvivable. This is actually very realistic in a sense; many real-world climates seem impossible to live in at first glance. They may not have storms of rust or ravenous plant life, but they also don't have transmutational alloys or 15-ft domesticated beetle mounts. It also underscores how important realmgates are; metals common as mud in the associated realm can be traded to the realm of life for a month's worth of food they grow in a day.

There is a subtle genius to AoS where the setting has an immense amount of creative space for people to write their own stories.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyways, in regards to high fantasy, there are tier lists for this sort of thing!

Mythic Fantasy
Epic Fantasy
High Fantasy
Mid Fantasy
Low Fantasy
Nil Fantasy

Boring to say what everyone else is saying.
Teclis looks... weird. In the flesh he may look more 3-d, but in pictures he looks like almost like a crumped 2 dimensional banner weirdly standing on odd-face griffin.

But new-spears and Silverhelms are almost tear inducingly good. 10/10 must own. Waiting on archers and co.

Cronch wrote:

The realm of metal isn't all metal

Which is true, but only been revealed so good two or three years after the launch of AoS. Those abysmal Realmgate Wars campaign books were all about ALL METAL REALM or LIFE LIFE LIFE EVEN MOUNTAINS HAVE CHRISTIAN ROCK BANDS.

They weren't though.

Tyel wrote:
Boring to say what everyone else is saying.
Teclis looks... weird. In the flesh he may look more 3-d, but in pictures he looks like almost like a crumped 2 dimensional banner weirdly standing on odd-face griffin.

But new-spears and Silverhelms are almost tear inducingly good. 10/10 must own. Waiting on archers and co.

I'm not even forming an opinion until we get a full look at everything. Learned from past experiences that the preview images can be give quite a different perception, at least for me personally.

New pointy Spartan a elves are great sculpts even if the overall aesthetic isn’t quite my cup of tea, the sphinx is cool and the Light of Eltharion makes me want to buy it just to light it up with LEDs and fluorescent paint.

Teclis, on the other hand is just… there. Like why is his expression so… flat? Even the undead bone statue guy is more expressive. Also the most boring pose possible is not being helped by the baggy pants making him look like his legs got too warm one day and slumped in the heat.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/01/26/pre-order-preview-new-beastgrave-warbands-and-the-wrath-of-the-everchosen/

Hey, this new book squashes the daemons back together as an army. Also sieges and monsters and stuff. Whatever.

I really hoped for lizardbois to be announced for preorder, not this low-tier booklet.

Cool, have been intrigued by this book. Would have liked murder cat, the Formoroid and the other Sisters too however.

I wouldn't expect to see the Fomoroid and the Sphiranx until the rest of the warband cards drop, nor would I be surprised if each model and half of the remaining cards are in two separate waves.

Considering how low key this is (especially with all of 8 models) I suspect its the result of needing to pad out the schedule for production times. They've got a lot of big projects on the docket, and only so many machines. Running a set of 5 models and a set of 3 models gives room* to churn more sisters and elves out (and soon AdMech) on the rest of the machines to get the numbers up.

*technically gave room, but I don't know how far ahead they crank out models for worldwide distribution.

Extremely excited for united daemon rules! I just hope they aren't overpowered so I can use them for casual/narrative. Also extremely excited for the fluff, I want Nagash to get knocked down a peg but also stick it to Order by actually capturing his side of the eightpoints gate.

Curious to see how the story progresses, but I do hope that it isn't a stalemate. Either have Archeon beat them back or have the Ossiarchs become a real threat to the Mortal Realms in their own right by controlling portions of the Allpoints.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/01/27/the-lumineth-lowdown-part-1gw-homepage-post-2/

Look like the other infantry unit they have is a mage unit.

Chopstick wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/01/27/the-lumineth-lowdown-part-1gw-homepage-post-2/

Look like the other infantry unit they have is a mage unit.

Since 'The Lumineth Lowdown' is going to be a fortnightly series (e.g., like the Battle Sisters Bulletin) it seems that they won't be released for at least a few months yet

 Ghaz wrote:

Chopstick wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/01/27/the-lumineth-lowdown-part-1gw-homepage-post-2/

Look like the other infantry unit they have is a mage unit.

Since 'The Lumineth Lowdown' is going to be a fortnightly series (e.g., like the Battle Sisters Bulletin) it seems that they won't be released for at least a few months yet

We know they're coming in Spring, so worst case is May? But they usually preview things at events that come out within 3 months, so that would be April.

June is also a Spring month, too, so they could release as late as June 20th and still be a Spring release.

Man, it seems Eldar were doing so poorly in 40k they straight up transplanted them into AoS.

Chopstick wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/01/27/the-lumineth-lowdown-part-1gw-homepage-post-2/

Look like the other infantry unit they have is a mage unit.

I'm missing the reference to a mage unit. There's mention of 'mages of incredible power,' but those can just be characters like any other army.

The four factions are somewhat interesting, though the elemental theme is a little weird that its specifically mountains and rivers rather than earth and water, and I'm not quite sure how to take wind and sky as separate elements.

The 'emotional drain' aspect is a bit... eh. That can of thing can undercut motivations and goals, and lead to characters with less agency (something that's a problem with several Order factions already). It can also lead to psycho-killers of the 'curious vivisectionist who doesn't realize what he does is bad' archetype, which isn't particularly interesting.

This though:

Yet before unchecked hubris and jealousy tore them apart, the Lumineth found salvation by returning to Teclis’ path of wisdom, knowledge and self-betterment, which ultimately brought their civilisation back from the brink of self-destruction.

So, it sounds like there is a lot of infighting and possibly petty, warring kingdoms. That has some potential.

ImAGeek wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

Chopstick wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/01/27/the-lumineth-lowdown-part-1gw-homepage-post-2/

Look like the other infantry unit they have is a mage unit.

Since 'The Lumineth Lowdown' is going to be a fortnightly series (e.g., like the Battle Sisters Bulletin) it seems that they won't be released for at least a few months yet

We know they're coming in Spring, so worst case is May? But they usually preview things at events that come out within 3 months, so that would be April.

EnTyme wrote:June is also a Spring month, too, so they could release as late as June 20th and still be a Spring release.

The question is which sounds more realistic. We'll see a minimum of four to a maximum of nine 'Lumineth Lowdown' reports. How many 'sneak peeks' that GW can show us before they run out of material?

EDIT: First sneak peek from Wrath of the Everchosen on Facebook...

I see too many similarities with the Eldar. Fearing its own emotions is also... childish, I am not sure which word is quite fitting.

 Knight wrote:
I see too many similarities with the Eldar. Fearing its own emotions is also... childish, I am not sure which word is quite fitting.

It's from the Old World setting too - if anything the Eldar are based off the High Elves in that respect. It's also a very Vulcan thing. Basically old Warhammer, Startrek etc its all of the same generation and shares a good few themes and concepts as a result. Even in stories where he's a side character (he's in one of the Gotrek and Felix stories) you can see the emotional issues that the elves have and the aggressive outbursts that they can suffer from. I can well see that an elf with godlike powers can see the potential vast harm he could do if he gave into an emotional outburst. Heck we can see it with the Everqueen and her somewhat erratic nature - though that's also because she's mind-linked with the woods which are also heavily infected with Chaos.


So in a sense this army is simply living up to its history, if perhaps exaggerating some aspects more so than in the past.

 Knight wrote:
I see too many similarities with the Eldar.

You know that this was a thing that existed for the High Elves before, right? Right up until End Times and AoS launching, it was still part of their lore.