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I don't know what you two think that I think.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Knight wrote:
I see too many similarities with the Eldar.

You know that this was a thing that existed for the High Elves before, right? Right up until End Times and AoS launching, it was still part of their lore.

Indeed! Elven passions and obsessions tended to run very hot and to extremes. Like Teclis and Tyrion’s father bankrupting his family several times over to repair Aenerion’s armor becoming almost ghoulish in his obsession with it.

Honestly its also a good way to show that the aelves are not quite as humans are. Much the same way that many dwarven nations show an almost insane level of steadfast and fixed thinking that rarely changes from "tradition" despite the fact that they live many generations longer than men. Social and mental setups like the holding of Grudges over even really tiny things.

Again it shows a way of thinking that sort of seems daft or insane to humans; yet at the same time it also lets those other races have non human element to them. It also leaves them in an ideal position to point out the insane traits of humans too

I always found the elves and dwarves as just other ways to explore the extremes that humans can experience, but perhaps exaggerated. I am glad they kept the steadfast dwarves and haughty (but often correct in a stone cold sense) elves. They are insights to what humanity can fleetingly become in reality, just brought to society level in the lore and on tabletop for some fiction. There is a bit of ridiculousness thrown in, of course. Can't have a good fiction if it's too dry.

 CaptainWaffle wrote:
I always found the elves and dwarves as just other ways to explore the extremes that humans can experience, but perhaps exaggerated. I am glad they kept the steadfast dwarves and haughty (but often correct in a stone cold sense) elves. They are insights to what humanity can fleetingly become in reality, just brought to society level in the lore and on tabletop for some fiction. There is a bit of ridiculousness thrown in, of course. Can't have a good fiction if it's too dry.

I agree, and well said.

Also, people who deal with mental illness can tell you that being able to take even a temporary a break from emotions would be a godsend. To someone with a level of soul-scarring PTSD that we cannot even comprehend I can only imagine how attractive losing one's emotions would be. That dynamic has real-world parallels and adds an element of tragedy to the backstory while also serving as a narrative platform to push the 'aloof elf' stereotype into extremes. We will see how well they execute it, but personally I have found AoS fluff from 2nd edition onward to be quite good overall; miles ahead of what was around at launch.

 Overread wrote:


It's from the Old World setting too - if anything the Eldar are based off the High Elves in that respect. It's also a very Vulcan thing. Basically old Warhammer, Startrek etc its all of the same generation and shares a good few themes and concepts as a result.(...)

Not exactly the same generation, ToS is from the 60's and Warhammer is from the 80's

 Overread wrote:
Honestly its also a good way to show that the aelves are not quite as humans are.

I mean, it's a good way if you're a talentless hack incapable of actually writing emotions, but then we are talking about GW lore writers

Cronch wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Honestly its also a good way to show that the aelves are not quite as humans are.

I mean, it's a good way if you're a talentless hack incapable of actually writing emotions, but then we are talking about GW lore writers

To be fair, they aren’t without emotions. They just slowly lose it over time as they use the crystals and they’re cool with it because they see it as a weakness. Not sure why that’s an odd concept, I like it personally.

When you write fantasy races you'll realize very soon that the only way to write them is to narrow the human emotions they can feel, making some much less prevalent and others much more exaggerated.

Thats a reality because as humans we only know human emotions. Theres no other race on our reality that we can take as a benchmark. So if every fantasy race you write has the whole range of emotions like humans, you end up with humans in a different skin.

I hope they release archers with pants. Most sought after bits ever!

Wrath of the Everchosen: What's in the Book on Warhammer Community.

100 some odd pages.

I wonder how many of those Subfaction names are for just Maggotkin, and how many might be for other faction's.

Siege warfare comes with special Allegiance Abilities? Odd.

 Galas wrote:
When you write fantasy races you'll realize very soon that the only way to write them is to narrow the human emotions they can feel, making some much less prevalent and others much more exaggerated.

Thats a reality because as humans we only know human emotions. Theres no other race on our reality that we can take as a benchmark. So if every fantasy race you write has the whole range of emotions like humans, you end up with humans in a different skin.

That's nonsense. There are a whole range of things that can be used- cultures, senses, social order, etc. Anyone who's spent any time around animals can describe differences between cats, dogs and cattle, and if the only thing you can seize upon for other sapients is limiting emotions, you're just a crap writer.

On the other side of it, its equally baffling if you're spending time going through the full range of human emotions for each human character. There just isn't time or space for that.


-----------------

Table of contents: 4 whole pages on sieges, and another 2 (minus however much space for pictures) on allegiance abilities. Going for the depth of psychic awakening rules here.

Really not much here. If you want to run the combined daemon army, you're going to need a lot of other sources.

Cronch wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Honestly its also a good way to show that the aelves are not quite as humans are.

I mean, it's a good way if you're a talentless hack incapable of actually writing emotions, but then we are talking about GW lore writers

Writing characters without emotion is actually much more difficult than writing them with emotion, because so much of how we as humans perceive and interact with the world is filtered through the lens of emotion.

 Carnikang wrote:
I wonder how many of those Subfaction names are for just Maggotkin, and how many might be for other faction's.

Going through the names I'd say that they look pretty evenly divided between the four Chaos Gods. It looks like there may even be one for Undivided (if 'The Legion of the First Prince' isn't a reference to Be'lakor I will be very surprised).

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

Cronch wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Honestly its also a good way to show that the aelves are not quite as humans are.

I mean, it's a good way if you're a talentless hack incapable of actually writing emotions, but then we are talking about GW lore writers

Writing characters without emotion is actually much more difficult than writing them with emotion, because so much of how we as humans perceive and interact with the world is filtered through the lens of emotion.

If you want to have realistic, or relatable characters, sure. Something that GW writers (not BL writers, just the people who churn out the battletomes and codices) usually don't bother with.

That hollow looking warrior guy is really top notch - very tempted to proxy him as a 40k Asurmen.
Teclis and his weird faced cat thingy - definitely not so much.

Voss wrote:

 Galas wrote:
When you write fantasy races you'll realize very soon that the only way to write them is to narrow the human emotions they can feel, making some much less prevalent and others much more exaggerated.

Thats a reality because as humans we only know human emotions. Theres no other race on our reality that we can take as a benchmark. So if every fantasy race you write has the whole range of emotions like humans, you end up with humans in a different skin.

That's nonsense. There are a whole range of things that can be used- cultures, senses, social order, etc. Anyone who's spent any time around animals can describe differences between cats, dogs and cattle, and if the only thing you can seize upon for other sapients is limiting emotions, you're just a crap writer.

On the other side of it, its equally baffling if you're spending time going through the full range of human emotions for each human character. There just isn't time or space for that.

Yeah, thats something obvious I should have mentioned. But at the same time, if non-human races feel like humans and behave like humans (Instead of being truly alien, specially if they are not mamals), and the only difference is culture, their history, etc... (Things that of course are important) they are less other fantasy races and just humans with another context, like medieval japanese vs pharaonic egyptians. And TBH thats the easy path most fantasy writters follow: "This guys will be native americans but they'll also be Minotaurs!" "This ones will be japanese samurai but also raven-men!"
Warhammer actually was better than most in that regard but even if Lizardmen were just Aztecs and Ogres were just Mongolians their range of emotions and way of thinking was completely alien.

Cronch wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

Cronch wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Honestly its also a good way to show that the aelves are not quite as humans are.

I mean, it's a good way if you're a talentless hack incapable of actually writing emotions, but then we are talking about GW lore writers

Writing characters without emotion is actually much more difficult than writing them with emotion, because so much of how we as humans perceive and interact with the world is filtered through the lens of emotion.

If you want to have realistic, or relatable characters, sure. Something that GW writers (not BL writers, just the people who churn out the battletomes and codices) usually don't bother with.

The AoS battletome fluff has been reasonably good for some time now, some of it really good. The short story of a daemon prince killing her sister, a stormcast, sticks out in my mind as one of the best I've read in the past few months.

I think the Realmwars books soured many on the setting and have a bit of a legacy to them. It's a shame, but honestly whilst they were campaign books and thus not really lore or stories, they were also made by a company that had a whole department set aside purely for lore and 30 years of writing it. I think many did honestly expect GW to do better.

I think it's just another symptom of both GW's heavily secret planning and launch of AoS within their own company; but also a reflection of the disconnection of the management to the customers which caused them to devalue the story writing aspect at that time; most likely because they were viewing the product as a whole being more a boutique model line rather than a story, setting and army building game.



Edit : I actually think AoS chaos is being REALLY interesting because we are seeing so many of these characters that we can relate too and are emotional and are honestly "normal". We can identify with them even though we can also see chaos corrupting and using them. In Old World we more got used to Chaos being the "Boogymen" (along with orks and a few others); which meant that we often didn't relate to the chaos corrupted. They in turn were often at the warrior or lord level so were fully "I'm evil and chaos because I'm evil and chaos".

Now we get stories like War Queen where we see a tribe of people who are honestly what we'd consider a wild tribe to be like. They care for things; have dreams and aspirations and their magic is chaos; but they aren't twisted and absorbed by it. Many don't even have any mutations on them or such - heck the Warqueen model itself isn't even corrupted physically. It creates a far deeper Chaos concept and a far darker one I think because we can see the good in those people as they are led down the path of darkness. It also makes it much easier to relate to how people can become corrupted; how they can end up worshipping demons and monsters and those who ultimately seek the destruction of the world.

I agree wholeheartedly.

So elves are Vulcans?

Smellingsalts wrote:
So elves are Vulcans?

Well no, because the dynamic is different. Vulcans train to reduce emotion as a means of improvement, Lumineth have their emotions sucked out by crystals they use as magical steroids and are cool with it because they have PTSD anyways.

 Carnikang wrote:


I wonder how many of those Subfaction names are for just Maggotkin, and how many might be for other faction's.

2 are for mortal maggotkin - Drowned Men and Blessed Sons. 2 others, Munificent Wanderers and Droning guard, are daemonic legions. all 4 are detailed briefly in the maggotkin battletome. Flayed and Baleful Lords are Khorne, detailed in the 1e battletome. Flux and Thousand Eyes are detailed in the DoT battletome. I'm assuming the last 4 listed are Slaanesh, though my pdf isnt searchable and I don't feel like reading the whole thing.

From Facebook:

Wait does that mean a Petrifax Ossiarch Bonereaper army gets an effective 1 save across the whole army?

 Overread wrote:
Wait does that mean a Petrifax Ossiarch Bonereaper army gets an effective 1 save across the whole army?

Just in this Siege Warfare game mode when they're in the attacker role..

And just for the first round?

Yeah which to be fair for Ossiarchs that first round is them just getting half way to the walls probably

 kestral wrote:
I hope they release archers with pants. Most sought after bits ever!

Grundy want pants too!