Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So my CSM army was focused on close combat (what i enjoy) with two wartime wings DP's and khorne berzerkers with power fist + combi meltas termies that deep struck. I had fun, i enjoyed it, but the game-breaking moments for my army really came when my daemon princes would wipe out terminators that were threatening me or MC's or ICs and now i just dont know if ill be able to do as well against the armies i play (mostly elite armies where my DPs have good lots of targets they can kill with relative ease and not get bogged down by hordes)

Im thinking of running a Nurgle army with Typhus, plague marines, and nurgle bikers (gogo toughness 6!)

But really, im thinking mostly of trading the entire lot (2 DP's, chaos lord, 8 zerkers, 15 marines, 5 terminators, rhinos, vindicators, landraider...) for a new Tyranid or IG army

Outside of the Nurgle theme, i can't really see any useful HQs or themes to my army. I could go for a total gimmicky army i guess with fabius bile and enhance + mark up a bunch of chaos marines, move em forward shooting (supported by vindicators and defilers maybe) and enjoy the benefits of bile and their mark once in close combat (mark of slaanesh maybe)

Anyway, i dont want to come off as someone running from a sinking ship because of one FAQ, but CSM was my first army and i dont have much money invested (got deals on stuff) so im not too sttached and am enjoying my space wolves more

So, how will you play CSM now?

Unfortunately, both of the lynchpins to our army have been nerfed. Lash was less relevant these days because of mech, but Warptime was our ace in the whole. Now, with our synergistic powers or mini death stars gone, it may be time to shelve or sell/trade our chaos marines until the new codex. I for one am either switching to necrons, or possibly Blood Angels. Since GW hates anything thats not a loyalist army, maybe it's time to play some Loyalistmarinehammer 40k!

This is ridiculous. I played a Tzeentch themed list, already extremely underpowered and now I'm to understand that Warptime is worse and summoned daemons scatter?

Well this is great, like two weeks before a tournament my army suddenly became dramatically worse and it wasn't good to start with.

They nerfed my spartan prince

But they cleared up dreadnought FF issues. So more dreads should be fielded

Also, the CSM codex specifically says under the summoned daemon entry that they do not scatter- page 61 So no nerf there thankfully.

Actually, reading the entry for icons, I really don't know why they needed that FAQ'd, as the Icon entry on page 81 specifically says only for terminators, oblits and LSD's

I think it might be trying to differentiate between summoning and deepstriking... idgi

SLD took a hit. Lesser deamons are not used by many players, even less so now.

Warptime is crap now. May as well take gift of chaos instead.

Lash sorcerers took a huge hit.

Lash princes took a minor hit. Lash is 1/6th less effective now when used by a prince.

That being said the sky is not falling, so there is no need to rage quit. Our next codex is less than a year away.....

Hey Space Puppy, have you considered using your Chaos Marines as a Blood Angels force? Sure you'd have to lose the DPs, but everything else has a counterpart in the BA codex you could use. Just a suggestion until a new C:SM codex comes out.

More likely than not, we'll all be playing wildly different armies when the new codex hits. I for one am either going T-sons or World Eaters, not death guard, which is really what WAS most competitive these days.

So, I'm liquidating 4,500 points of Chaos, and playing a codex that GW doesn't hate.

I'll probably keep playing them the same way I have for a while now - when I get bored of my Guard and want a change of pace

I'm glad they fixed warptime. People who were using the rule the other way were just being cheaty, and, in the very least missing RAI. I mean, you could give your DP +1 attack, or for only 5 points more you could give him both preferred enemy AND lightning claw rules? Yeah, right. Why they didn't clamp down on this earlier is beyond me. Likewise, that it took so long to resolve dreads is kind of sad...

The rest of it is kind of strange though. I agree with the ponderings of why they needed to make SLDs and lash worse. Whatevs.

As for the OP, now is a crazy time to abandon CSM if you're going to want to field them at any point in the next few years. You don't get OUT right before your models all get better stuff, and all of the minis get a 25% price hike. If anything, you double down.

One CSM army I am really enjoying now (not quite conventional), but fun, is a shooty style CSM. Now, I need to say up front first, for shooty, we can't match IG. But, its still a fun army to play with and it has options. And this army doesn't even have Daemon Princes or summoned daemons, so no issue there.

Chaos Sorceror Lord w Winds of change - 130

4 sqauds of 10 CSM w 1 lascannon in Rhino - 205 x 4 = 820

1 sqaud of 3 terminators (heavy flamer, combi flamer) = 100

1 Landraider = 220

2 tri-lascannon Predators = 330

1 Defiler = 150

Total = exactly 1750 points

It has 4 twin linked lascannons and 8 seperate lascannon shots and 1 battle cannon shot per turn. That's a fair amount of long range shooting, most of which is at strength 9.

The interesting thing about this army is that it doesn't quite fold just because people get into close range. When people come close, 40 marines unload from their Rhinos and rapid fire close to 76 bolter shots at 12 inches.

The termi sqaud and sorceror lord also form the counter charge squad, except they don't charge. When the opponent gets close enough, the landraider suddenyl charges forward 12 inches, they disembark, and you get a winds of change, plus 1 heavy flamer and a standard flamer template all stacked onto one squad. Will be quite painful for most, even termis (because winds of change does not allow for armor saves).

The Defiler is also there to provide counter charge capability. After suviving all those lascannon shots and bolter rapid fire shots, they will still have to face 40 CSM, 1 defiler, and 1 squad of terminators with a sorceror in it.

Finally, if I meet an even more shooty army than this, then the army automatically transforms into a horde army. I then charge the Landraider, and the 4 Rhinos, and even the Defiler, blow smoke, and hope enough units will survive to meet them, while the 2 Las Preds will try and take out whatever they still can.

I am having quite a lot of fun with this army, and it looks good on tabletop because I can put so many things down on the table. I have another version where I trade 1 Las Pred for 1 more Defiler. That one is really fun too. Makes it slightly less shooty, but with more CC capability. And being able to put down 2 Defilers always draws people because you rarely see 1 much less 2!

I'm currently attempting to build my first army, a CSM army. If they are being neutered in some way in your opinion as players of this army how much have they suffered in playability?

Ailaros wrote:I'm glad they fixed warptime. People who were using the rule the other way were just being cheaty, and, in the very least missing RAI. I mean, you could give your DP +1 attack, or for only 5 points more you could give him both preferred enemy AND lightning claw rules? Yeah, right. Why they didn't clamp down on this earlier is beyond me. Likewise, that it took so long to resolve dreads is kind of sad...

What? Warptime is 15 points more than Mark of Khorne and requires a psychic test, potentially wounding you and there's often psychic hoods or eldar runes in play.

Let's not get too depressed. :( We can take daemon princes without any warptime at all. It will be cheaper, and the psycological effect will still be there. lol

I mean, players by now really fear Daemon Princes. So, let them be the fire magnets that they are. A flying Daemon Prince with no powers can still wreck vehicles well, and lash princes are still lash princes, you are going to roll a one to hit quite rarely.

But really, im thinking mostly of trading the entire lot (2 DP's, chaos lord, 8 zerkers, 15 marines, 5 terminators, rhinos, vindicators, landraider...) for a new Tyranid or IG army

This wouldn't be a bad move. Tyranids and IG seem to get a boost in the new edition (if the floating document is not a hoax). On the other hand, CSM will get a new codex soon.

Im going to continue building my Emperor's Children themed army with two LoS DPs and lots of template goodies.

y0disisray wrote:Im going to continue building my Emperor's Children themed army with two LoS DPs and lots of template goodies.

I have such an army played during 3rd ed. I have shelfed it since then waiting for better times. They seem to be in sight with the 6th ed where templates (and flamers) got a boost.

schadenfreude wrote:SLD took a hit. Lesser deamons are not used by many players, even less so now.

This was just because 'units must contain entirely Obliterators or models in Terminator armor' right? Nothing specifically mentioning SLDs, right? Otherwise they still won't scatter. I'm genuinely asking, since SLDs are a lynch pin of my army.

At least, come 6th we'll get a new codex for most players and the current renegade rules will be better if the leak holds true. My army will love having 2 vindis and oblits rapid firing plasma guns at 18".

I will play the same way as before. Without Lash princes or warptime.

It isn't the only way to play, there are other viable lists.

I had almost finished my army when this happened. I was literally 4 oblits and a defi away. I guess I won't be ordering that Nurgle DP from Forge World.

I could see changing to Kharn with a Khorne Berzerker based army. Otherwise, I'll probably just have fun for a little while till the new codex hits.

Like I've always have, chaos lords and troops. Metagame be dammed.

Ailaros wrote:I'm glad they fixed warptime. People who were using the rule the other way were just being cheaty, and, in the very least missing RAI. I mean, you could give your DP +1 attack, or for only 5 points more you could give him both preferred enemy AND lightning claw rules? Yeah, right. Why they didn't clamp down on this earlier is beyond me. Likewise, that it took so long to resolve dreads is kind of sad...

The rest of it is kind of strange though. I agree with the ponderings of why they needed to make SLDs and lash worse. Whatevs.

As for the OP, now is a crazy time to abandon CSM if you're going to want to field them at any point in the next few years. You don't get OUT right before your models all get better stuff, and all of the minis get a 25% price hike. If anything, you double down.

I agree except my logan wing sports a lot of wolfguard termies with wolf claws (reroll to hit OR miss) and I have a wolf priest (reroll to hit) so when combined, guess what I am rerolling to hits and to wound rolls... I disagree it was a psychic power that affects one model. (Not like DOOM or GUIDE) As a psychic power it is nerfed by a psychic hood or runes of warding or shadow of the warp. So nerf it to the point of uselessness while JOTW is allowed to exist????

Castiel wrote:I will play the same way as before. Without Lash princes or warptime.

It isn't the only way to play, there are other viable lists.

So you don't win very much?

There are other lists that are ok. Kharn and Abaddon are still strong, but our really hardcore lists are basically dead. Remember that anything that modifies ballistic skill screws lash, and Warptime is pretty damn worthless. Other armies got better with the FAQ, streamlining their rules and clarifying questions. We got kicked to the point that we can't hope to beat a decent 5th edition list piloted by anything other than a blathering idiot.

th3maninblak wrote:

Castiel wrote:I will play the same way as before. Without Lash princes or warptime.

It isn't the only way to play, there are other viable lists.

So you don't win very much?

Actually, I win my fair share. I'm relatively new to proper gaming, but I can win some games, and its usually a fairly tight loss or draw otherwise. I get beaten badly occasionaly, but then everyone does.

I apologize. What I said was out of line.

SpacePuppy wrote:So, how will you play CSM now?

Put them on the shelf and wait for a new codex. My Thousand Sons were already pretty hurt by the latest codex, but this seems to be the final nail in the coffin. Besides, there's plenty of Warmachine and WHFB in my local area. And if I ever get my green tide list painted, there's Orks.

Although I do like Eldenfirefly's shooty CSM list. It might be worth trying out.

th3maninblak wrote: We got kicked to the point that we can't hope to beat a decent 5th edition list piloted by anything other than a blathering idiot.

So, you're saying you would still have a chance when playing against me?

Wait..... what?

Where are you guys getting the info for SLDs sucking? The codex says that they do not scatter-what the FAQ is fixing is INDEPENDENT CHARACTERS in units of Obliterators and Terminators don't benefit from the Icon unless they are in termi or oblit armor. SLDs are unaffected by the FAQ. SLDs are the same as they ever were. It means a lord with wings can't use an icon to fly into if he is in a unit of terminators-that's all. No other change than that.

timetowaste85 wrote:Where are you guys getting the info for SLDs sucking? The codex says that they do not scatter-what the FAQ is fixing is INDEPENDENT CHARACTERS in units of Obliterators and Terminators don't benefit from the Icon unless they are in termi or oblit armor. SLDs are unaffected by the FAQ. SLDs are the same as they ever were. It means a lord with wings can't use an icon to fly into if he is in a unit of terminators-that's all. No other change than that.

This.

schadenfreude wrote:SLD took a hit. Lesser deamons are not used by many players, even less so now.

No, they didn't. Did you read my post? where I point out the pages where you can confirm SLD's did not take a hit? Or even the wording in the FAQ?

th3maninblak wrote:

Castiel wrote:I will play the same way as before. Without Lash princes or warptime.

It isn't the only way to play, there are other viable lists.

So you don't win very much?

HE DOESN'T TAKE LASH, WARPTIME, PLAGUE MARINES OR OBLITS! HERETIC! PURGE THE HERETIC!

Unless your playing in tournaments and competitions, there are plenty of viable CSM lists. As long as your not a chump when it comes to tactics

DarkHound wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:SLD took a hit. Lesser deamons are not used by many players, even less so now.

This was just because 'units must contain entirely Obliterators or models in Terminator armor' right? Nothing specifically mentioning SLDs, right? Otherwise they still won't scatter. I'm genuinely asking, since SLDs are a lynch pin of my army.

>< Page 81/61! CSM codex! Has the information you need!
In Short- No, SLD's have not been nerfed.

Ailaros wrote:I'm glad they fixed warptime. People who were using the rule the other way were just being cheaty, and, in the very least missing RAI. I mean, you could give your DP +1 attack, or for only 5 points more you could give him both preferred enemy AND lightning claw rules? Yeah, right. Why they didn't clamp down on this earlier is beyond me. Likewise, that it took so long to resolve dreads is kind of sad...

It's really quite sad about the dreads. But I don't think they fixed warptime (actually considering how good it was, I think 25p is only adequate for the sorc. I think the DP should have been 30p at least), they nerfed it into the ground. 25p for a mulligan. It's really not worth the points.

timetowaste85 wrote:Where are you guys getting the info for SLDs sucking? The codex says that they do not scatter-what the FAQ is fixing is INDEPENDENT CHARACTERS in units of Obliterators and Terminators don't benefit from the Icon unless they are in termi or oblit armor. SLDs are unaffected by the FAQ. SLDs are the same as they ever were. It means a lord with wings can't use an icon to fly into if he is in a unit of terminators-that's all. No other change than that.

!!! A fellow reader