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I was wondering if there are any weaknesses the grey knights have that a vanilla CSM army can exploit on the board?
Conversely, how can I protect my precious expensive chaos marines from the strengths of the grey knights?

I'd say it's an uphill battle vs. Grey Knights; they excel in close range and are all equipped with power weapons, whilst Psycannons and Psyflemen are adept at taking apart your all-important rhinos.
Similarly, Chaos Space Marines excel in either close range or close combat most of the time, where you'll likely find yourself outdone by the GK's...

Battle Cannons/Defilers and Plasma Cannons/Obliterators should find themselves a lot of worthy targets in a GK army, whilst termicide or chosen units can pounce upon psyflemen or even paladins.

I'm grasping at straws to an extent though; it'll be tricky. Good luck!

plasma plasma plasma. If there is one thing our dex can dish out well its plasma. And if there is one thing the grey knights dont like, as super expensive marines, its plasma.

So as a nurgle player, I have tons of plasma in my lists.
I typically will have 6 plasma rifles, and two two to three man squads of obliterators.

Also, try and ensure you get the charge. Grey Knights biggest advantages (init ten and grenades) mostly only happen in their assault phases. Ergo, get the charge on them, they tend to hurt less, and are FAR more susceptible to your own beat sticks (Just try to keep your HQs away from halberds if possible, if not, wait to counter charge with your HQs so they are safe )

Grey Knights don't really have a weakness in standard games. Their "weakness" is that they don't have many options for shooting beyond 24". However, they can basically spam 48" S8 fire like Space Wolves anyway. All of their infantry are actually superior to yours in every regard at the same time. Seriously.

What you can do is to simply take more stuff than them. Just bury them under 6+ squads of CSM. In a 2k point game, I think a modern competitive CSM should have about 100 models. A GK can have only half that, max.

As the above poster said, play horde. You can't out elite GK as they are the elite of the elite. So, you out horde them. Pack tons and tons of normal CSM.

If you out number him 3 to 1, or 4 to 1, then even if he has more elite forces, he won't necessarily win.

The problem I see with the 'horde' approach is that a basic CSM squad isn't that cheap or going to greatly outnumber GK at those points IMHO.
With the near-mandatory upgrades of an IoCG and Rhino, a 10-man squad is 195pts. Add in the 2 meltas and it's 215pts. 5 of these for 50 CSM's is 1075pts, which doesn't leave much room for other goodies on top of the HQ and is over half your pts spent on troop units.
Correct me if I'm looking at it the wrong way...

I think they mean that using 4 squads of 20 CSM without rhino - numbers permitting target saturation - with IoCG and champ
= 1300 pts

that would give 80 straight off against far fewer grey knights, but would it be enough of a numbers advantage.
Other than bringing more marines and putting plasma guns wherever I can take them;

Are there any other ways to even the odds?

If that's the case, then I still don't believe it to be a really viable option IMHO due to the manoeuvrability of such units, compared to the scoot-and-shoot ability of Grey Knights who should be quite capable of staying out of rapid fire range for a fair while.
I think a real disadvantage the Grey Knights have is they have no real AP3 shooting...

Eldenfirefly wrote:As the above poster said, play horde. You can't out elite GK as they are the elite of the elite. So, you out horde them. Pack tons and tons of normal CSM.

If you out number him 3 to 1, or 4 to 1, then even if he has more elite forces, he won't necessarily win.

horde is still risky, I remember once charging 40 Orks boyz into a unit of paladins and the paladins butchered them.

My advice is have 2 defilers on the filed, that way even though they are gonna be BIG targets the punishment (as I have experienced) they do to GK is delicious...

Also (I feel I may get heat from this but oh well it is advice) 5-man units of Thousand sons (when not fighting paladin spam) within rapid fire range feels good as well (AP 3 bolters are better than most people think), I know they are expensive but as it runs through my mind they get the job done (also Dont take a sorcerer instead take a rhino for each squad with daemon possession, A) because it cheaper, B) slow and purposeful wont effect you that much since all you are going to do is get in and out of a tank).

Lastly my final piece of advice is Abbadon, mainly because he can kill draigo even if draigo charges him (and any advantage like that you MUST have).

Just my two cents, but I hope this helps .

Use obliterators, deep striking or landraider rolling terminators with combi plasma, abbadon is a good HQ, then again so is a plain sorcerer with winds of chaos (or god forbid, 2 of them in the land raider)

Plague marines with plasma guns are your best bet as troops, though chaos glory guys with plasma also tend to work well.

When trying to stop GK in melee, don't. Assume a shooting stance. Let them charge you if they all have halberds. if not, and your foe is running mostly non-GK termies, charge them. If he's running termies than keep shooting.

happygolucky wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:As the above poster said, play horde. You can't out elite GK as they are the elite of the elite. So, you out horde them. Pack tons and tons of normal CSM.

If you out number him 3 to 1, or 4 to 1, then even if he has more elite forces, he won't necessarily win.

horde is still risky, I remember once charging 40 Orks boyz into a unit of paladins and the paladins butchered them.

My advice is have 2 defilers on the filed, that way even though they are gonna be BIG targets the punishment (as I have experienced) they do to GK is delicious...

Also (I feel I may get heat from this but oh well it is advice) 5-man units of Thousand sons (when not fighting paladin spam) within rapid fire range feels good as well (AP 3 bolters are better than most people think), I know they are expensive but as it runs through my mind they get the job done (also Dont take a sorcerer instead take a rhino for each squad with daemon possession, A) because it cheaper, B) slow and purposeful wont effect you that much since all you are going to do is get in and out of a tank).

Lastly my final piece of advice is Abbadon, mainly because he can kill draigo even if draigo charges him (and any advantage like that you MUST have).

Just my two cents, but I hope this helps .

The Sorceror isn't optional. If you take Thousand Sons, you MUST take a Sorceror with them. That's one of the reasons that they're so bad, actually; the Sorceror isn't all that useful, and he costs a minimum of 70 points. So you're looking at 197 points for 4 Thousand Sons, one Sorceror with Doombolt, and a Rhino with no options. . . and that unit sucks massively. 200 points for 4 AP3 bolters, an AP3 bolt pistol, and a Force Weapon that you really, really hope you never have to use? No thanks. Not even against Grey Knights.

Play against them just like you'd play against anything else, I'd say; MSU of Plague Marines with double plasma and a fist. Pound them with plasma from the Rhino, then when they kill the Rhino pound them with plasma on foot. 1-wound Plague Marines don't care about the difference between NFWs and normal power weapons, and they're less effective than normal because they're wounding on 5+ (unless they use Hammerhand). And they still get no bonus attack for charging, so at the least, your Plague Marines will tie them up for a couple of turns and take out one or two with their power fist.

Strike Squads are just Marines. They die just as easily as Marines do; play against them exactly as you would against any other MEQ, just keeping in mind that they have power weapons. Same with Purifiers. Terminators are just normal TEQ; Paladins are tougher because they have two wounds, but the same tactics still basically work on them. My recommendation is, don't change your list much. However you fight MEQ will still work against Grey Knights, with only minor tweaks.

I agree with darkhound's horde idea.

happygolucky wrote:horde is still risky, I remember once charging 40 Orks boyz into a unit of paladins and the paladins butchered them.

Yes, but CSM has more options. Slugga boyz against paladins basically have no choice but to charge in anyways and hope for a waaugh.

80 CSM have the ability to move forward 6" and then unload with bolters. CSM still have lots of 4's, and paladins still have only a 2+, and they're as expensive as an obliterator when you give them a psycannon.

Sure, bolters aren't going to go through them all that quickly, but with a couple of plasma guns, you're going to start to whittle, and that's against an army where every model counts.

CSM dreads LOS issues have been FAQ'd. Grab 3 of them with plasma cannons

Don't deep strike - ever against GK's. Warp quake will simply make you cry. Against RAW nutters, warp quake will also remove your icon completely! (have GW actually cleared that one up yet in any faq?!)

Your squad upgrades should be plasma, plasma, plasma. More plasma, back-up by yet more plasma and finally finished off with even more plasma! Just forget about the pistols since you never want the GK's to be within 12" of you.
Melta for this reason is less usefull because if you're zapping him with it, he's in charge range of you next turn.

For combat, avoid his halberd wielding models like the plague because they have a better MoS for some silly reason.
'Zerkers can take care of non-halberd strikes, interceptors, purgations and smaller units of basic termies thanks to their furious charge combined with boatloads of WS5 attacks. Unless there's absolutely no other option, don't assault purifyers or pallys - just shoot the piss out of them!
The only henchmen units to avoid combat with would be the deathcult assassin + crusader mobs. Warrior henchmen are only S3 with limited access to power toys and crap human stats. Just be carefull of trying to tie-down a DCA/crusader group with a dread or defiler because it's becoming more and more popular to include a banisher w/eviscerator in those units!

Avoid vehicle spam because his psyflemen will eat your armour. A few rhinos as mobile bunkers to help funnel him down into well prepared firezones is still usefull however. If you take any dreads or defilers, keep them in cover to gain that obscured roll!
If he's only got 1 psyfleman dread, then rejoice! Either way, his psyflemen need to die or you're going to be forced to sit back and castle your forces. Perhaps a pred w/autocannon + lascannon sponsons hiding in terrain for the obscured save to deal with those?

Ignore anything daemonic in your list obviously because GK's are broken against daemons. (I play daemons and it sucks facing any kind of GK force!)
For this reason, oblits need to be kept well away from them, because as far as GK's are concerned, your oblits IIRC are counted as daemonic in their faq.



It's going to be a painfull game any way you slice it. He's got all the advantages, so you have to play smarter than him. Chaos can beat GK's sure, (I've had the odd win or two with Daemons against non-optimised lists!) but just know that you're going to have an uphill battle against him no matter what he brings.

Typhon the Storm Giant wrote:I was wondering if there are any weaknesses the grey knights have that a vanilla CSM army can exploit on the board?
Conversely, how can I protect my precious expensive chaos marines from the strengths of the grey knights?

I have played them about 10 times now with my CSM, and I win about 50% of the time.

If the Grey Knight player is taking lot's of Paladins, Melta Guns are your best friend. 5 man strong Plague Marines with 2x Melta Guns each, in a Rhino with a combi melta.
Lash of Submission and Obliterators also give them fits, even with Aegis. You still pass your test on a 9 or less, unless they are within 12" of a Dread.

In addition, I normally always run a possessed Vindicator with my Obliterators. I can't tell you how many times it has wiped a squad of Paladins. Think Lash + Demolisher
Cannon = Dead Paladins. I wiped Mordrak and a full squad of Ghost Knights using this method as well.

If your group is cool with Forge World Rules, pick yourself up 3x Blight Drones as well. They destroy PAGK with 36" ST8 AP3 Pie Plates, and don't eat up heavy slots (they are fast attack).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Experiment 626 wrote:Don't deep strike - ever against GK's. Warp quake will simply make you cry. Against RAW nutters, warp quake will also remove your icon completely! (have GW actually cleared that one up yet in any faq?!)

Your squad upgrades should be plasma, plasma, plasma. More plasma, back-up by yet more plasma and finally finished off with even more plasma! Just forget about the pistols since you never want the GK's to be within 12" of you.
Melta for this reason is less usefull because if you're zapping him with it, he's in charge range of you next turn.

For combat, avoid his halberd wielding models like the plague because they have a better MoS for some silly reason.
'Zerkers can take care of non-halberd strikes, interceptors, purgations and smaller units of basic termies thanks to their furious charge combined with boatloads of WS5 attacks. Unless there's absolutely no other option, don't assault purifyers or pallys - just shoot the piss out of them!
The only henchmen units to avoid combat with would be the deathcult assassin + crusader mobs. Warrior henchmen are only S3 with limited access to power toys and crap human stats. Just be carefull of trying to tie-down a DCA/crusader group with a dread or defiler because it's becoming more and more popular to include a banisher w/eviscerator in those units!

Avoid vehicle spam because his psyflemen will eat your armour. A few rhinos as mobile bunkers to help funnel him down into well prepared firezones is still usefull however. If you take any dreads or defilers, keep them in cover to gain that obscured roll!
If he's only got 1 psyfleman dread, then rejoice! Either way, his psyflemen need to die or you're going to be forced to sit back and castle your forces. Perhaps a pred w/autocannon + lascannon sponsons hiding in terrain for the obscured save to deal with those?

Ignore anything daemonic in your list obviously because GK's are broken against daemons. (I play daemons and it sucks facing any kind of GK force!)
For this reason, oblits need to be kept well away from them, because as far as GK's are concerned, your oblits IIRC are counted as daemonic in their faq.



It's going to be a painfull game any way you slice it. He's got all the advantages, so you have to play smarter than him. Chaos can beat GK's sure, (I've had the odd win or two with Daemons against non-optimised lists!) but just know that you're going to have an uphill battle against him no matter what he brings.

"(I've had the odd win or two with Daemons against non-optimised lists!)"

I have beaten several tournament champion players using Draigo Wing and Purifer Spam with my Daemons. About half of the games ended in me completely tabling the Grey Knight player.

If you know how to play\build Daemons correctly, GK are kind of a joke, unless they tailor specifically against Daemons.

NoArmorSave wrote:I have beaten several tournament champion players using Draigo Wing and Purifer Spam with my Daemons. About half of the games ended in me completely tabling the Grey Knight player.

If you know how to play\build Daemons correctly, GK are kind of a joke, unless they tailor specifically against Daemons.

wat

DarkHound wrote:

NoArmorSave wrote:I have beaten several tournament champion players using Draigo Wing and Purifer Spam with my Daemons. About half of the games ended in me completely tabling the Grey Knight player.

If you know how to play\build Daemons correctly, GK are kind of a joke, unless they tailor specifically against Daemons.

wat

The ironic thing is, it's true.

Says you. This being the internet, talk is cheap. Tell me exactly how you did this deed. Tell us all.

DarkHound wrote:Says you. This being the internet, talk is cheap. Tell me exactly how you did this deed. Tell us all.

You can look under my profile. I have posted several threads about Daemon tactics and optimal lists. I included a 2,000 point
Daemon list I recently used to place 3rd in a 2000 point tournament that was qualifier for Feast of Blades. There were 3 Grey
Knight players at the tournament, and 24 players in total.

If the GK aren't fielding Strike Squads or Interceptors, they don't have Warp Quake, which is the #1 screw for daemons. Many of the common builds for GK use Purifiers, henchmen, or Paladins instead of Strike squads.

Mannahnin wrote:If the GK aren't fielding Strike Squads or Interceptors, they don't have Warp Quake, which is the #1 screw for daemons. Many of the common builds for GK use Purifiers, henchmen, or Paladins instead of Strike squads.

No dude. Warp Quake isn't the huge Daemon killer that people make it out to be. If I am playing Grey Knights, and he is using heavy Strike Squads and Interceptors, he better pray that he gets to go first.
If he goes first and shunts all over the board, yes it could be a gimped game. However, he better make sure the entire board is locked down, if there is any open space I will get in.

If I go first, he is simply done. His PAGK stand no chance against my Daemons once they land. Also, most folks don't field Interceptors or Strike Squads. And if they do, they don't spam them. People usually field Purifiers and Paladins.

I just agreed with you, aside from on how nasty Warp Quake is.

Mannahnin wrote:I just agreed with you, aside from on how nasty Warp Quake is.

What's the deal with warp quake here? Daemons are fearless and do not fear warp quake either.

Warp Quake is the power where if they cast it, if a unit deep strikes within 12" (initial placement OR scattering into 12") of a model in the casting unit, the DSing unit automatically Mishaps. It also cancels out the benefits of any wargear used to guide DS-ers, like teleport homers or icons, if they're within 12".

It's not an auto-win unless the GK army is just all Interceptors & Strikes and spreads across the entire table, but it's pretty darn nasty. It very much limits the utility/safety of using Crushers, for example. Daemon builds focusing more on Fiends or shooty Tzeentch units tend to become more important when Warp Quake is a factor.

Mannahnin wrote:Warp Quake is the power where if they cast it, if a unit deep strikes within 12" (initial placement OR scattering into 12") of a model in the casting unit, the DSing unit automatically Mishaps. It also cancels out the benefits of any wargear used to guide DS-ers, like teleport homers or icons, if they're within 12".

It's not an auto-win unless the GK army is just all Interceptors & Strikes and spreads across the entire table, but it's pretty darn nasty. It very much limits the utility/safety of using Crushers, for example. Daemon builds focusing more on Fiends or shooty Tzeentch units tend to become more important when Warp Quake is a factor.

As said, a GK army based on many Strike and Interceptor units are not very common - at least if its an all-comers list. All other GK lists will give Daemons a possibility to land more or less safely.

NoArmorSave wrote:

DarkHound wrote:Says you. This being the internet, talk is cheap. Tell me exactly how you did this deed. Tell us all.

You can look under my profile. I have posted several threads about Daemon tactics and optimal lists. I included a 2,000 point
Daemon list I recently used to place 3rd in a 2000 point tournament that was qualifier for Feast of Blades. There were 3 Grey
Knight players at the tournament, and 24 players in total.

Just because you're successful with a maxed-out fatecrusher list doesn't make it 'uber godly and capable of wrecking face everywhere else.

I know that list would absolutely suck at my local store for example;
- We are limited to 6'x4' tables while our games still range from 1750-2000pts
- We have lots of large area terrain AND each table will always have at least one, typically two decent sized 'impassible' terrain pieces. Our tables are typically 33-50% terrain, not the nicest prospects for deep striking armies! Sure as daemons we don't fear those dangerous terrain tests, but at the very least it can easily slow down an already slow army.

On top of that, my local meta favours MSU mech spam. A list with 3x 8 bloodcrusher squads would almost certainly have to pray for 1st turn, because otherwise those transports will help spread the squads out and thus make it almost impossible for those huge footprints to land safely. (hope you can roll a 'hit' on every scatter, or else you don't deviate more than 3".)
Horde orks would really laugh if they go first - even average rolls for running could seriously limit deployment options with proper use of the 2" rules.
About the only deployment you can hope for is Dawn of War!

We also have a few rather unique GK builds that have made fatecrusher cry, for example the GK player who runs 3x 9-man strike squads + techmarine w/silly grenades in rhinos. I don't care how dead killy any deathstar is, assaulting those units is almost an assured 66% chance to auto-lose due to how broken the psycho grenades are. Back this up with a Draigo deathstar and the mandetory psyflemen. Those main squads will strike at S5 due to hammerhand, gimp your toughness and then you have to pray for the psychos to not cripple you!
I have yet to beat this army myself and it destroys the DOA's BA lists as well. Combat is a crap idea against this army, so I run shooty Tzeentch with my 'counts as' plaguebearers to hold objectives. The problem is I've never been able to do enough shooting damage and being able to warp quake every turn means I'm forced back and thus unable to alpha-strike with breath attacks.



It's nice to see that some Daemon players can make GK's cry - they deserve it considering how smug and condecending I find alot of GK's players to be towards Daemon players! But you can't assume that just because you can make a maxed-out fatecrusher list work, means it'll work everywhere and that Daemon players should all run it!

How funny would it be though if daemons finally found their place in the tournament metagame as a counter to GK.

wuestenfux wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:Warp Quake is the power where if they cast it, if a unit deep strikes within 12" (initial placement OR scattering into 12") of a model in the casting unit, the DSing unit automatically Mishaps. It also cancels out the benefits of any wargear used to guide DS-ers, like teleport homers or icons, if they're within 12".

It's not an auto-win unless the GK army is just all Interceptors & Strikes and spreads across the entire table, but it's pretty darn nasty. It very much limits the utility/safety of using Crushers, for example. Daemon builds focusing more on Fiends or shooty Tzeentch units tend to become more important when Warp Quake is a factor.

As said, a GK army based on many Strike and Interceptor units are not very common - at least if its an all-comers list. All other GK lists will give Daemons a possibility to land more or less safely.

Are you reading my posts? I pointed out, in explaining why NoArmorSave's claim was not unbelievable, that many GK players don't field Strike Squads at all. Yes, obviously I know this. I said it before you did.

That being said, you don't need to field "many Strike and Interceptor units" to put the Daemons player at a disadvantage. Even a single 5-model unit, spread out at max coherency in front of your army, can make a "shield" 25" deep and 37" wide in which daemons and other DSing units cannot arrive. Further, the shield is functionally larger because it makes placing NEAR the 12" zone of exclusion more dangerous, as if the initial model scatters into it, the Mishap occurs. With no WQ in the equation you can place your DSing assault unit ~8" away from the enemy and feel confident of avoiding any Mishap and of being able to Run on arrival to close the distance, and more or less ensure being able to move + charge on your next turn if you're still alive, assuming the enemy didn't flee at top speed. With WQ to have the same odds of avoiding mishap, you've now got to place 20" away from the enemy models with WQ. That's a huge added distance.

Experiment 626 wrote:

NoArmorSave wrote:

DarkHound wrote:Says you. This being the internet, talk is cheap. Tell me exactly how you did this deed. Tell us all.

You can look under my profile. I have posted several threads about Daemon tactics and optimal lists. I included a 2,000 point
Daemon list I recently used to place 3rd in a 2000 point tournament that was qualifier for Feast of Blades. There were 3 Grey
Knight players at the tournament, and 24 players in total.

Just because you're successful with a maxed-out fatecrusher list doesn't make it 'uber godly and capable of wrecking face everywhere else.

I know that list would absolutely suck at my local store for example;
- We are limited to 6'x4' tables while our games still range from 1750-2000pts
- We have lots of large area terrain AND each table will always have at least one, typically two decent sized 'impassible' terrain pieces. Our tables are typically 33-50% terrain, not the nicest prospects for deep striking armies! Sure as daemons we don't fear those dangerous terrain tests, but at the very least it can easily slow down an already slow army.

On top of that, my local meta favours MSU mech spam. A list with 3x 8 bloodcrusher squads would almost certainly have to pray for 1st turn, because otherwise those transports will help spread the squads out and thus make it almost impossible for those huge footprints to land safely. (hope you can roll a 'hit' on every scatter, or else you don't deviate more than 3".)
Horde orks would really laugh if they go first - even average rolls for running could seriously limit deployment options with proper use of the 2" rules.
About the only deployment you can hope for is Dawn of War!

We also have a few rather unique GK builds that have made fatecrusher cry, for example the GK player who runs 3x 9-man strike squads + techmarine w/silly grenades in rhinos. I don't care how dead killy any deathstar is, assaulting those units is almost an assured 66% chance to auto-lose due to how broken the psycho grenades are. Back this up with a Draigo deathstar and the mandetory psyflemen. Those main squads will strike at S5 due to hammerhand, gimp your toughness and then you have to pray for the psychos to not cripple you!
I have yet to beat this army myself and it destroys the DOA's BA lists as well. Combat is a crap idea against this army, so I run shooty Tzeentch with my 'counts as' plaguebearers to hold objectives. The problem is I've never been able to do enough shooting damage and being able to warp quake every turn means I'm forced back and thus unable to alpha-strike with breath attacks.



It's nice to see that some Daemon players can make GK's cry - they deserve it considering how smug and condecending I find alot of GK's players to be towards Daemon players! But you can't assume that just because you can make a maxed-out fatecrusher list work, means it'll work everywhere and that Daemon players should all run it!

Keep believing what you want. Your Psychotroke grenades are a mickey mouse solution if you think it will let you overcome Fatecrusher. You may gimp one of the Blood Crusher squads (for a turn), but you are unlikely to significantly impact them all.
Bloodcrushers in Fateweavers bubble overpower Draigo\Librarian\Techmarine + Paladins in close combat. I have done it time and time again. And my Bloodthirster has a 2++ invulnverable save against Draigo and all of his cronies.

And Horde Orks & MSU armies giving Fatecrusher a tough time? Dude....... We really need to play some 40K so that I can straighten some things out.

As far as terrain goes; you can declare the entire table difficult terrain, you will still likely loose. I normally deep strike all of my Daemons directly into difficult terrain (counts as dangerous) when I can. The extra cover is often worth it, and the odd model
that rolls a 1, will usually get to reroll invulnerable saves for the dangerous test. A few odd wounds on a crusher squad is a nuisance, nothing else.

NoArmorSave wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
It's nice to see that some Daemon players can make GK's cry - they deserve it considering how smug and condecending I find alot of GK's players to be towards Daemon players! But you can't assume that just because you can make a maxed-out fatecrusher list work, means it'll work everywhere and that Daemon players should all run it!

Keep believing what you want. Your Psychotroke grenades are a mickey mouse solution if you think it will let you overcome Fatecrusher. You may gimp one of the Blood Crusher squads, but you are unlikely to significantly impact them all.
Bloodcrushers in Fateweavers bubble overpower Draigo\Librarian\Techmarine + Paladins in close combat. I have done it time and time again. And my Bloodthirster has a 2++ invulnverable save against Draigo and all of his cronies.

As far as terrain goes; you can declare the entire table difficult terrain, you will still likely use. I normally deep strike all of my Daemons directly into difficult terrain (counts as dangerous) when I can. The extra cover is often worth it, and the odd model
that rolls a 1, will usually get to reroll invulnerable saves for the dangerous test. A few odd wounds on a crusher squad is a nuisance, nothing else.

I was going to respond to him, but I figured we were all going to just ignore him and hope he gets the idea instead of telling him his local area ain't nothing special And a good point on terrain. I'd also mention that I find the amount/type of terrain mentioned to be a boon with assault based armies, especially armies like daemons. Makes it much easier to isolate units/chunks of the opponents army. Isolated in tight area vs daemons=not cool!