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Made in gb
Grumpy Longbeard





Also, the Imperial Guard doesn’t have rules for general officers because they do not enter the field of combat, not because they don’t exist.
Conceptually, if it has a stat line it can fight. Coming up with a scenario where this makes sense is typically up to the players.
Or have you never considered how absurd it is to always fight a roughly equal force, with no greater force behind each side, able to add reinforcements as needed?

"Three months? I'm going to go crazy …and I'm taking you with me!"
— Vala Mal Doran
 
   
Made in gb
Wondering Why the Emperor Left





Kent; United Kingdom; Terra

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Legiocustodes wrote:
22 SAS is commanded by a Lieutenant Colonel who has undertaken the same selection process as his SF Troopers, he will also have undertaken officers week and have served previous tours within the Regiment as a Captain or a Major. However he will not deploy on missions with individual sections or fire teams as he is busy commanding the regiment, which is what senior officers do y’know ... even in highly specialist formations.
Said SAS guy isn't a super-human wearing tank armour.

Your comparison is meaningless. All Marines fight.


I didn’t say he didn’t fight... he just would be involved in larger battles than five man kill team operations. So it’s not meaningless, it’s fairly accurate. I’m sure the Watch Master would fight, but not on such low level deployments. Alexander the Great led his armies in the field and fought with his troops, he didn’t however lead groups of five soldiers to recce enemy camps or set fire to siege engines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Insurgency Walker wrote:
 Legiocustodes wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Legiocustodes wrote:
I hope Roboute Guilliman, Magnus and Mortarion are in the next Commanders expansion. After all if Watch Masters are on these covert ops; why not Primarchs.*
This criticism makes no sense.

Watch Commanders, of the Deathwatch, y'know, the group that specifically organises itself into Kill Teams, the very thing the game is named after, who are all based around small covert operations. Why wouldn't they be involved?


22 SAS is commanded by a Lieutenant Colonel who has undertaken the same selection process as his SF Troopers, he will also have undertaken officers week and have served previous tours within the Regiment as a Captain or a Major. However he will not deploy on missions with individual sections or fire teams as he is busy commanding the regiment, which is what senior officers do y’know ... even in highly specialist formations.

Now if a really large operation was undertaken it might require the deployment of say the Officer Commanding of a Sabre Squadron (a Major) to deploy in order to command and orchestrate the activity of multiple troops, but still not the Regiment’s Colonel.

Transposing that forward to 40k Watch Commanders are essentially the souped up, genetically enhanced equivalent. Now I know nobody likes to think of any sort of realism or logistical support behind 40k but the Deathwatch are a Military Organisation who were originally answerable to the High Lords (Beast arises novels) but are now most likely answerable to the newly returned Guilliman. I’m not sure these Individuals would be happy when they contacted a Watch Fortress to ask Watch Master X help them coordinate a strategic response to a massive Xenos incursion to find out he’s on planet Y crawling through Grox gak with a five man Kill Team trying to stop eight Eldar from leaving the board. It’s not his role and does not fit with tasks comensutate to his rank, responsibilities or position. He may want to do these missions, because all soldiers still want to do the fun stuff, but part of being a disciplined operator is realising that what you want and what duty demands are two quite different things. His job is to lead a Watch Fortress and develop strategy and lead his forces... sometimes directly but only in larger battles. He should be able to implicitly trust his Watch Captains and Watch Sergeants to undertake their missions and achieve their objectives without the need for him to micro-manage their operational activities... afterall they are all still veteran space marines. Killing 8 Eldar should be an achieavable goal!


Still, some like to lead from the front.
Erwin Rommel sends his regards. Rommel used to lead his security detachment like a kill team. Tip on the spear vanguard kind of crazy.


This is true.... but then he lost the Desert War in Africa. Perhaps more time spent in leading and less time being a hero would have been beneficial and prevented Field Marshal Montgomery handing him his ass.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/19 14:21:00


Check out my blog for all things 30k, 40k, Oldhammer and tutorials:
http://classicastartes.blogspot.co.uk
 
   
Made in us
Veteran Inquisitor with Xenos Alliances






 Scott-S6 wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
While we're being silly:

Kill Zone: Plastic Thunderhawk

A crashed thunderhawk would be a better kill zone that the zone of martyrs one.
I'm a bit disappointed that FW hasn't had any contribution to Kill Team. Whether is the crashed Thunderhawk, Zone Mortalis, or any of their other terrain boards I think it'd have been great for Kill Team.

While we're on FW, I'm surprised they haven't really pushed any of their different kits or add-on for Kill Team. Bundle up Hector Rex or Solomon Lok with some IG... Or the Ork Mek Boss with those Kommandos add-ons...
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





Ya, this is a game that FW would be cool to do stuff like in Necromunda, but look at how long stuff is taking for that game.

But while we are dreaming...I'd love to see some FW HVT (no stats or very low).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Legiocustodes wrote:

Transposing that forward to 40k Watch Commanders are essentially the souped up, genetically enhanced equivalent. Now I know nobody likes to think of any sort of realism or logistical support behind 40k but...


Watch next week as Legiocustodes destroys the whole premise of Star Trek--a fictional TV show, because realism.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/19 15:05:00


 
   
Made in gb
Wondering Why the Emperor Left





Kent; United Kingdom; Terra

 Chairman Aeon wrote:
Ya, this is a game that FW would be cool to do stuff like in Necromunda, but look at how long stuff is taking for that game.

But while we are dreaming...I'd love to see some FW HVT (no stats or very low).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Legiocustodes wrote:

Transposing that forward to 40k Watch Commanders are essentially the souped up, genetically enhanced equivalent. Now I know nobody likes to think of any sort of realism or logistical support behind 40k but...


Watch next week as Legiocustodes destroys the whole premise of Star Trek--a fictional TV show, because realism.


Don’t get me started on Star Trek..... someone tell me how the Klingons keep changing their appearance from ENTERPRISE through to the ORIGINAL SERIES and again by the NEXT GENERATION. Also Worf; that guys career progression matrix is seriously out of control!

Check out my blog for all things 30k, 40k, Oldhammer and tutorials:
http://classicastartes.blogspot.co.uk
 
   
Made in gb
Hard-Wired Sentinel Pilot





 Legiocustodes wrote:


This is true.... but then he lost the Desert War in Africa. Perhaps more time spent in leading and less time being a hero would have been beneficial and prevented Field Marshal Montgomery handing him his ass.


I agree on your main point, but as far as Montgomery in particular is concerned, his legend is rather inflated. If you read his campaigns and battles, I don't think anyone could seriously claim his tactical or strategic superiority in these battles were what won the day.

/Edit - quick skim, El Alemain 2 for example. I think that his doubling of Rommel's troops, tanks and field guns go a long way to explaining his victory here, and not that Rommel was an inferior commander https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_El_Alamein

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/19 16:24:52


 
   
Made in gb
Wondering Why the Emperor Left





Kent; United Kingdom; Terra

JWBS wrote:
 Legiocustodes wrote:


This is true.... but then he lost the Desert War in Africa. Perhaps more time spent in leading and less time being a hero would have been beneficial and prevented Field Marshal Montgomery handing him his ass.


I agree on your main point, but as far as Montgomery in particular is concerned, his legend is rather inflated. If you read his campaigns and battles, I don't think anyone could seriously claim his tactical or strategic superiority in these battles were what won the day.

/Edit - quick skim, El Alemain 2 for example. I think that his doubling of Rommel's troops, tanks and field guns go a long way to explaining his victory here, and not that Rommel was an inferior commander https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_El_Alamein


Arguably if you turn up to battle with twice as many troops as your enemy then that’s great leadership and planning from the start! But I do have my own reservations about Monty. Nonetheless he was a highly charismatic leader who managed to shape the desert forces into an effective fighting force.... “Before Alamein the British had never had a victory, afterwards they never suffered a defear’

Check out my blog for all things 30k, 40k, Oldhammer and tutorials:
http://classicastartes.blogspot.co.uk
 
   
Made in us
Ruthless Interrogator





Maine

JWBS wrote:
 Legiocustodes wrote:


This is true.... but then he lost the Desert War in Africa. Perhaps more time spent in leading and less time being a hero would have been beneficial and prevented Field Marshal Montgomery handing him his ass.


I agree on your main point, but as far as Montgomery in particular is concerned, his legend is rather inflated. If you read his campaigns and battles, I don't think anyone could seriously claim his tactical or strategic superiority in these battles were what won the day.

/Edit - quick skim, El Alemain 2 for example. I think that his doubling of Rommel's troops, tanks and field guns go a long way to explaining his victory here, and not that Rommel was an inferior commander https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_El_Alamein


Yeah, twice the weight of battle plus the German battle plans and he still almost lost.
Still 40k has that strong, call it backwards, theme where tomorrow's soldiers fights the futures battles with tactics and strategies taken from the complete history of mans conflicts.

Also, There are many ways to end up in a kill team conflict. Just ask the ghost of Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto.

Voxed from Salamander 84-24020
 
   
Made in nl
Hardened Veteran Guardsman





Segmentum Solar

Could we switch back to actual rumors? You guys are getting my hopes up with all these new posts. Star Trek and WWII seem rather irrelevant here.
   
Made in us
Ruthless Interrogator





Maine

Where do you think the scale of Kill team is going? At first I thought the Starstriders were of a slightly smaller scale than say Necromunda or some of the newer plastic humans but they seem slightly larger but less heroic in scale.

Voxed from Salamander 84-24020
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






 Legiocustodes wrote:
This is true.... but then he lost the Desert War in Africa. Perhaps more time spent in leading and less time being a hero would have been beneficial and prevented Field Marshal Montgomery handing him his ass.


An entirely appropriate comparison for a setting known for irrational stupidity and blind faith in space-Jesus. I find it 100% in the theme of the setting for the Imperium to lose a war because its senior officers were obsessed with the glory of honorable combat and hitting things with swords.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in pl
Dakka Veteran





 Peregrine wrote:
An entirely appropriate comparison for a setting known for irrational stupidity and blind faith in space-Jesus. I find it 100% in the theme of the setting for the Imperium to lose a war because its senior officers were obsessed with the glory of honorable combat and hitting things with swords.



Name one 40K faction that doesn't do that, please.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Tau.

   
Made in ca
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel







Farsight and Aun'shi.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/20 00:31:17


My milkshakes bring all the boys to the yard and they're like, hurr darry darr.


My suggestion to you is to get married, if you have a good wife you'll be happy, if you have a bad wife you'll become a philosopher. 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob






 Legiocustodes wrote:
JWBS wrote:
 Legiocustodes wrote:


This is true.... but then he lost the Desert War in Africa. Perhaps more time spent in leading and less time being a hero would have been beneficial and prevented Field Marshal Montgomery handing him his ass.


I agree on your main point, but as far as Montgomery in particular is concerned, his legend is rather inflated. If you read his campaigns and battles, I don't think anyone could seriously claim his tactical or strategic superiority in these battles were what won the day.

/Edit - quick skim, El Alemain 2 for example. I think that his doubling of Rommel's troops, tanks and field guns go a long way to explaining his victory here, and not that Rommel was an inferior commander https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_El_Alamein


Arguably if you turn up to battle with twice as many troops as your enemy then that’s great leadership and planning from the start! But I do have my own reservations about Monty. Nonetheless he was a highly charismatic leader who managed to shape the desert forces into an effective fighting force.... “Before Alamein the British had never had a victory, afterwards they never suffered a defear’


If you're not aware, the Germans experienced significant deficiencies in manpower and materiel throughout most of the war. Even the French had significantly better tanks on the ouset of the war. The Sherman tank severely outclassed it's German counterparts until the introduction or limited numbers of Tiger tanks, and the Germans always experienced materiel and manpower shortages on the Eastern front, where the Russian tanks outclassed their German counterparts from the beginning until Kursk, where their massive numerical advantages severely curtailed the impact of new German war wagons.

Also, Rommel ended up committing suicide before his time on command by Hitler after being implicated in a plot against him.

So I would say it's quite unfair to tar Rommel with that broad of a brush, especially considering how well respected he was by his counterparts.

Any more than it's fair to blame Friedrich Paulus for the defeat at Stalingrad or Mannstein at Kursk. Their materiel shortages were the result of inferior strategy, inferior production and inferior design, a lot of which was simply due to prohibitions imposed by the Treaty of Versailles on military production, a lot of which was caused by Germany fighting a multi front war involving the two greatest powers in the world at the time, and a lot of which was caused by overwhelming allied air superiority later on in the war.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/20 01:08:30


Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak. 
   
Made in gb
Wondering Why the Emperor Left





Kent; United Kingdom; Terra

Whilst I would love to continue this debate (I genuinely would, I’m not being flippant) I feel the earlier poster was correct when he said that in depth analysis of the logistical and combat efficacy of opposing World War II Forces is slightly off topic from Warhammer 40,000 Kill Team... and is probably annoying many people who are reading this thread.

Check out my blog for all things 30k, 40k, Oldhammer and tutorials:
http://classicastartes.blogspot.co.uk
 
   
Made in nl
[MOD]
Jolly Morale Officer






Dakka's very own Christmas village

Quite so, back on topic now please. Please take any further discussion to a thread of its own in the proper sub forum, thanks.

Be ash and cinder forevermore!

V - 11 | T - 3 | 敗 - 40

DakkaDakka | Where you thank the mods for baning you! 
   
Made in au
Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws






So me and my friends played a few commander matches today and it’s actually really fun. Played one with the Rogue Traders vs a Brood Lord which was an awesomely close and scary game (Elucia managed to put a couple of really lucky rapier stabs), and my friend and bro played one as Gellerpox vs Death Watch and the Gellerpox managed to pull a win.
I was fairly skeptical about it but it seems like a sweet expansion now that I’ve played it. Some fun missions and I really like that it’s a seperate add on so you don’t have to use it if you want to do normal games.
   
Made in us
Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader




The overwhelming consensus of reviews seem to be;
"Was super skeptical, but played it and it's really fun."
   
Made in gb
Imperial Admiral





Glasgow

The pile of missions is starting to get a bit unweildy so I've made a spreadsheet for mission selection with all 69 missions so far.

You can enter the killzone in use and the factions of the two players (remember to also tick none for both of those) and it'll show you all applicable missions and which book they're in (or if they're cards).

You can also select which campaign mission they can replace and whether or not you want commanders as well.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/fb4hu0kqddsfdj1/Kill_Team_Missions.xlsx/file

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/10/20 21:43:59


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut



UK

 Scott-S6 wrote:
The pile of missions is starting to get a bit unweildy so I've made a spreadsheet for mission selection with all 69 missions so far.

You can enter the killzone in use and the factions of the two players (remember to also tick none for both of those) and it'll show you all applicable missions and which book they're in (or if they're cards).

You can also select which campaign mission they can replace and whether or not you want commanders as well.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/fb4hu0kqddsfdj1/Kill_Team_Missions.xlsx/file


This is really good work.

Do you want to share it on some of the Kill Team Facebook Groups?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2185532231692101/?fref=nf

Check out my youtube channel at www.youtube.com/channel/UCc8CECcBOeCO-srhlUwf_lQ 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




And here's a Google Sheet with a full expanded Missions table to roll on: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Iasbj7RC1cXuMPYUqUR_sVMbj3J8fyZx6yXZA8cv0L4/edit?usp=sharing

I swapped the table so the die result reads across the top, with sources in rows. You can filter column A to get just the applicable sources.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut



UK

 Scott-S6 wrote:
The pile of missions is starting to get a bit unweildy so I've made a spreadsheet for mission selection with all 69 missions so far.

You can enter the killzone in use and the factions of the two players (remember to also tick none for both of those) and it'll show you all applicable missions and which book they're in (or if they're cards).

You can also select which campaign mission they can replace and whether or not you want commanders as well.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/fb4hu0kqddsfdj1/Kill_Team_Missions.xlsx/file


Duplicate caused by computer error.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/10/21 07:23:59


Check out my youtube channel at www.youtube.com/channel/UCc8CECcBOeCO-srhlUwf_lQ 
   
Made in nl
Hardened Veteran Guardsman





Segmentum Solar

Marbo sees preorder for general release next week: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/10/21/next-week-the-codex-youve-been-waiting-for/

They don’t mention it, but surely he needs Kill Team rules as well!
   
Made in de
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot




York (Uni) or Shrewsbury (home), England

 Insane Ivan wrote:
Marbo sees preorder for general release next week: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/10/21/next-week-the-codex-youve-been-waiting-for/

They don’t mention it, but surely he needs Kill Team rules as well!

I really hope so! Maybe as some kind of special commander, who doesn't actually command, but just goes off on a rampage whilst the remainder of the squad mops up.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is.
 Bruticus wrote:
I really just wanted to make this exact model and I don't know what I would do if he turned out to be a smelly, one-legged frog with a shotgun p*nis.
I still don't understand the context of this phrase... but Slaanesh! 
   
Made in nl
[MOD]
Jolly Morale Officer






Dakka's very own Christmas village

Just make him a special level 5 commander at 200 pts.

Be ash and cinder forevermore!

V - 11 | T - 3 | 敗 - 40

DakkaDakka | Where you thank the mods for baning you! 
   
Made in de
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot




York (Uni) or Shrewsbury (home), England

 BrookM wrote:
Just make him a special level 5 commander at 200 pts.

Good point. I am sure they can give him enough explosives to make him worth 200pts...

 ChargerIIC wrote:
If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is.
 Bruticus wrote:
I really just wanted to make this exact model and I don't know what I would do if he turned out to be a smelly, one-legged frog with a shotgun p*nis.
I still don't understand the context of this phrase... but Slaanesh! 
   
Made in es
Dakka Veteran





Does anyone have the digital version of the rulebook?

I saw a pic that poxwalkers now automatically pases Nerve test.


Other changes?
   
Made in gb
Raging Ravener





London

Yeah, for the digital version to have different rules to the Faq'ed paper book is not ideal.
   
Made in au
Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws






Have they FAQed the Rogue Trader expansion yet? xC
   
 
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