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Hey there Dakkites,

I've been looking at buying the Rts version of 40k hammer and I'm clueless about what games there are and what's the best one.

Let me hear your voices Dakka!!!! What's your fav rts hammer game ?

There are only 2 40k RTS (not counting expansions.)

Dawn of War

Dawn of War 2

...well, there are others, but they are very old. It will take a lot of tweaking to get them functional, and even then they'll barely work

Chaos Gate

Final Liberation

....

Personally, I prefer Dawn of War 1. I am not sure if the Dark Crusade expansion is standalone (haven't played it in ages), but if it is, then it is worth just getting that.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Personally, I prefer Dawn of War 1. I am not sure if the Dark Crusade expansion is standalone (haven't played it in ages), but if it is, then it is worth just getting that.

Think it is standalone but you have to unlock the other races with codes from the other games to actually use them.

And I also prefer DoW1, just seemed like a bit more like War than DoW2, but then again both are great imo

Dark Crusade is standalone, but to play multiplayer (which is dead as the game's very old) you need to get the other versions to play as anything but Tau and Necrons.

Dawn of War 1 is a great game if you want to build a whole bunch of spacemen and throw them at the enemy. There isn't entirely that much strategy involved, since units come and go so quickly you can just mass whatever you want and generally do okay. It's cool to zoom in close and watch the action, and there's a number of tweaks and mods out there if you want to make the game look better or play differently. There are a metric ton of mods for this game, and some are quite good. The original and Winter Assault have linear but enjoyable campaigns, and Dark Crusade has a cool Risk-style campaign with persistent units and such. Soulstorm is awful and was farmed out to a third party developer.

Dawn of War 2 is less about the spectacle, more about the nitty gritty tactics and combat. There are a lot more hard counters to units, individual models and squads are more expensive and dangerous, and terrain is significantly more important. Terrain is also destructable, which makes for some dynamic action when your dreadnought flanks a heavy bolter team that has your men pinned down. There is still a multiplayer community that is fairly active, but not huge. This is fortunate, as the skirmish AI is absolutely godawful. The original and Chaos Rising have linear campaigns where your characters carry over from mission to mission and game to game that are much more RPG like. Very cool. Retribution has a campaign that's kinda fun once, and a Last Stand mode which is pretty fun.

They're very different and very enjoyable games. If you can pick them all up on a Steam sale I'd recommend it.

Brother SRM wrote:Dark Crusade is standalone, but to play multiplayer (which is dead as the game's very old) you need to get the other versions to play as anything but Tau and Necrons.

See, that is why I don't trust games that have no content outside of multiplayer (like Call of Duty, Battlefield 3 and so on)

Personally, I recommend Dawn of War 1.

DoW2 may have better graphics, but also a much more narrow focus with smaller armies giving it a very different "look and feel". Also, DoW2 has fewer armies than its predecessor and much fewer mods as well as fewer features when it comes to customization. I don't see THQ releasing any more expansions for it either.

I also have to add that I greatly enjoyed Soulstorm, but this may simply be due to faction bias. I would make the exact choice depend on what armies you wish to play. You couldn't be wrong about simply buying DoW1 with all its expansions, too, as you can already buy the Complete Collection in a single pack for only $15-20 these days.

Also, Dawn of War 1 has a load of sick mods downloadable for free, greatly expanding its gameplay value:



And in no way would DoW2 allow you to have crazy massive battles like this:



That's from the "Dawn of Steel" mod which lets you play the Steel Legion, by the way. Had lots of fun with it. Armoured columns to the max!
Imho, it's even more fun than the "official" IG in the Winter Assault expansion. Aside from offering loads of more vehicles and a more WW2-like construction style, it also has more detail, such as the heavy bolter teams having their gun on a set of wheels, slowly rolling it over the battlefield - compared to the "official" single trooper with a backpack who runs as fast as the normal squads and transforms into a pillbox on a mouseclick. I know what looks cooler.

Lynata wrote:Personally, I recommend Dawn of War 1.

DoW2 may have better graphics, but also a much more narrow focus with smaller armies giving it a very different "look and feel". Also, DoW2 has fewer armies than its predecessor and much fewer mods as well as fewer features when it comes to customization. I don't see THQ releasing any more expansions for it either.

I also have to add that I greatly enjoyed Soulstorm, but this may simply be due to faction bias. I would make the exact choice depend on what armies you wish to play. You couldn't be wrong about simply buying DoW1 with all its expansions, too, as you can already buy the Complete Collection in a single pack for only $15-20 these days.

Oh really, there's a complete set of it now? That's convenient.

Chaos Gate is a fun game, but good luck getting it to run with any sort of stability.

DOW1 has the best unit quotes I think. Especially the sisters of battle.

If you're looking for squad based tactics and more of a 'in it with the troops' feel go for DoW 2. The campaigns are pretty fun, if completely unbelievable and the graphics are fantastic.

As for straight RTS, definitely go for DoW 1. Every aspect of the game is geared towards giant army combat. The expansions are great and if I remember correctly, you can get all of the games on Steam for like 50 bucks.

Also, the mod community for DoW 1 has produced some AMAZING items. Firestorm over Kronus...Inquisition mods...the Tyranid mods. There are literally thousands you can choose from.

DOW2 sucks ass, get Dark Crusade standalone.

Joey wrote:DOW2 sucks ass, get Dark Crusade standalone.

Oh man what a valid and well researched and explained point, I've just been wrong for the 200 hours I've spent playing and enjoying DoW2 and it's expansions. Thanks!

Brother SRM wrote:

Joey wrote:DOW2 sucks ass, get Dark Crusade standalone.

Oh man what a valid and well researched and explained point, I've just been wrong for the 200 hours I've spent playing and enjoying DoW2 and it's expansions. Thanks!

This is dawn of war 1:

This is dawn of war 2:

But ohhh shiny graphics ohhh.

I actually preferred Soulstorm over any of the others. I love the Risk-esque gameplay (though some variation would have been nice), and the game definitely improved on a number of things from Dark Crusade. The biggest one was the AI - in Dark Crusade, it would outright cheat late in the game. The Orks' honor guard was, at one point, completely full with units, despite the Ork AI controlling a whopping 3 territories. Plus, because bases disappeared at the end of every level, assaulting territories wasn't utterly impossible late-game (in Soulstorm).

I really liked DOW2's storyline, and the Orks campaign in Retribution had a lot of humor to it. But it just doesn't feel like Dawn of War without massive armies of guys, with dozens of men on the battlefield.

I would get the original DoW1 and/or Winter Assault. The problem with Dark Crusade is your persistent elite units build up extremely quickly, and even on the highest difficulty (which just buffs his units and nerfs yours) missions can be completed with just the elite units. No building an army, no strategy. Just over run his pre-built base with your elite units before he can produce defenders. After the first 4 or 5 campaigns the game boils down to an exercise in patience; the campaigns aren't a story, just a different starting location on the board.

There's also something to be said for Dark Crusade's game design. It restricted units to extremely specific roles, turning the game into rock-paper scissors. I went back to DoW1 for the campaign after playing Dark Crusade and the change was tremendously refreshing. In the original game, I had options to modify a squad's role. Haven't finished your Wraithlord tech and he just rolled out with a Predator? Add a few Brightlance Platforms to your Guardians. (Brightlances later became unable to join squads, which made using them effectively near impossible.) Even simple stuff like taking Missile Launchers on CSM got removed.

Joey wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:

Joey wrote:DOW2 sucks ass, get Dark Crusade standalone.

Oh man what a valid and well researched and explained point, I've just been wrong for the 200 hours I've spent playing and enjoying DoW2 and it's expansions. Thanks!

This is dawn of war 2:

But ohhh shiny graphics ohhh.

Hey! Knights of Blood!

I prefer DOW 2.

DoW 2 is a much better RTS. Strategy and tactics are very keen and you have to be on your toes. DoW 1 is a great spectacle but feels like a sledge hammer when it comes to tactics and strategy. I recommend getting both and their expacs as they both play so differently.

DoW1 and 2 are both good, and Joey you come off as a troll from the posts of yours that I keep reading. Either you're a troll, or just very rude to anyone that doesn't agree with you.

IMO, DoW II's MP sucked real hard(Skirmish and regular Multiplayer) but Campaign and Last Stand were AMAZING.

as for the originals, Dark Crusade tried something new and failed(unlike DC, DoWII made it feel like every piece of land was important)

Dawn of War had an amazing campaign also, Winter Assault's was good MP but eh on the SP, and SoulStorm, didn't try for a story it basically said:"Alright, here's a couple worlds, have fun"

Joey wrote:
This is dawn of war 1:

This is dawn of war 2:

But ohhh shiny graphics ohhh.

How about instead of "shiny graphics" it's "actual tactics and strategy, requiring positioning, keeping your units alive, terrain and suppression fire" vs. "build a lot of gak and throw it at the other guy" gameplay? I'm sure you were disappointed that you couldn't absentmindedly build a million dudes and run them into each other and that you, god forbid, had to think about what you were actually doing in the game. I love both games but they require almost completely different mindsets to play effectively.

Being able to have the computer automatically reinforce your units anywhere on the field, while in combat, did kill any sense of strategy.

I have DoW2, and in fact I was highly ranked in the beta's ladder. DoW2 wants to be this game about proper positioning and strategy, but in reality it just makes combat inefficient. Head-on conflicts are almost always bad for the attacker, so each player ignores each other and goes for the objectives. The game turns into a ring-around-the-Rosie, each player on the opposite side of the map, capturing the other's objective marker.

That being said, DoW2's Campaign was fun. Persistent characters with wargear options made new tactical choices possible. I've played through the game twice now, each one completely differently. I could think of 2 more totally different builds to try.

DarkHound wrote:Being able to have the computer automatically reinforce your units anywhere on the field, while in combat, did kill any sense of strategy.

I have DoW2, and in fact I was highly ranked in the beta's ladder. DoW2 wants to be this game about proper positioning and strategy, but in reality it just makes combat inefficient. Head-on conflicts are almost always bad for the attacker, so each player ignores each other and goes for the objectives. The game turns into a ring-around-the-Rosie, each player on the opposite side of the map, capturing the other's objective marker.

Were you playing a lot of 1v1? Most 1v1 games are just that, while 3v3 (the mode the game's balanced around) tends to have more of the big battles. Playing the guerrilla war when you're undermanned is pretty cool too.

Okay so far I've heard many opinions about what game is the best. Let's list all the games so far.

Dow1 Dow2 soul storm and what else ?

Dawn of War 1 and Winter Assault had the best stories to their campaigns. Dawn of War 2 and Chaos Rising had the best gameplay to their campaigns.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h67JpMyrOVE

That is all.

No, there is more.

DarkHound wrote:Being able to have the computer automatically reinforce your units anywhere on the field, while in combat, did kill any sense of strategy.

I have DoW2, and in fact I was highly ranked in the beta's ladder. DoW2 wants to be this game about proper positioning and strategy, but in reality it just makes combat inefficient. Head-on conflicts are almost always bad for the attacker, so each player ignores each other and goes for the objectives. The game turns into a ring-around-the-Rosie, each player on the opposite side of the map, capturing the other's objective marker.

That being said, DoW2's Campaign was fun. Persistent characters with wargear options made new tactical choices possible. I've played through the game twice now, each one completely differently. I could think of 2 more totally different builds to try.

lol not always the case

tactical squad with missile launcher, apoc and razerback can easily take out a base

Dawn of War 1 is great fun, then when you've played through it - there's various fun mods (extra races, closer to tabletop units, rebalances etc) then wonderfully insane mods if your hardware can take it (superheavies everywhere, 1000 unit limit etc.)

I can tell you that DOW1 (get the whole box set its totally worth it) is still a fantastic game, and the expansions you can download just make it 50x cooler. BUT Ive yet to play DOW2 as my current PC is literally 10 years old this year. But I am buying a brand spanking new quad core PC in about a month, soooooothen I can try DOW2 out.

Brother SRM wrote:
How about instead of "shiny graphics" it's "actual tactics and strategy, requiring positioning, keeping your units alive, terrain and suppression fire" vs. "build a lot of gak and throw it at the other guy" gameplay? I'm sure you were disappointed that you couldn't absentmindedly build a million dudes and run them into each other and that you, god forbid, had to think about what you were actually doing in the game. I love both games but they require almost completely different mindsets to play effectively.

Yeah that's why I didn't start a thread in the Video Games board about Europa Universalis III, I have no tactical ability whatsoever.
Orrrrrrrr I'm not an adolescent console gamer who has an over-simplistic view of what strategy is. Right-clicking to put your troops in cover is not "tactics" it is just part of the game.

Joey wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:
How about instead of "shiny graphics" it's "actual tactics and strategy, requiring positioning, keeping your units alive, terrain and suppression fire" vs. "build a lot of gak and throw it at the other guy" gameplay? I'm sure you were disappointed that you couldn't absentmindedly build a million dudes and run them into each other and that you, god forbid, had to think about what you were actually doing in the game. I love both games but they require almost completely different mindsets to play effectively.

Yeah that's why I didn't start a thread in the Video Games board about Europa Universalis III, I have no tactical ability whatsoever.
Orrrrrrrr I'm not an adolescent console gamer who has an over-simplistic view of what strategy is. Right-clicking to put your troops in cover is not "tactics" it is just part of the game.

So using terrain to your advantage isn't strategy? Riiiight. Still yet to see any opinion from you on why this game isn't good, considering your enlightening post on the matter.

xSoulgrinderx wrote:Okay so far I've heard many opinions about what game is the best. Let's list all the games so far.

Dow1 Dow2 soul storm and what else ?

Dawn of War 1
Winter Assault expansion
Dark Crusade standalone expansion
Soulstorm standalone expansion (this was actually outsourced to a separate developer, who added in really, really hokey air units, a broken at launch Sisters of Battle army, and just a generally unnecessary rehash of the game)

Dawn of War 2
Chaos Rising
Retribution

Pick them all up, aside from Soulstorm they're all very good. Soulstorm is the game with the terrible voice acting that spawned my Dawn of Awesome cartoons.