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So I return from a tornament a loser. First two rounds were against GK armies and I got creamed. The first was a drago wing army. The second was a henchmen army overflowing with dreadnaughts. So what is a nids player to do? I asked around some of the other nid players there and got the response that there is nothing to do. I admitidly am stumped. Nids are lacking in ap 1&2 weapons. And the GKs have a spell that makes me move through difficult and dangerous terrain when assalting. This means my genes swing last in combat and I die a little inside.

My experience has shown me that Hive guard are not the answer to the Dreadnaught problem. I guess venerable ones have a rule where you must reroll certain results. Sorry if this has been talked about already? Any advise would be apreciated.

Put up the two gk lists you lost to and I'll try to help you out.

And please put up your Nids list.

As for Paladins, tyranid warriors/shrikes with lashwhip+bonesword with toxin sacks worked for me, if they pull out charge all the FnP and 2+ won't help them, nor their I6 halberds. their psi buffs are less likely to work.
Tyrant's paraxism helps immensely to soften powerful units up before charge also, probably making stealer suicide charge plausible, but i dint try.
gargoyle screen helps if terrain is scarce in your game area.
hiveguards and trigons should do for dreadies, thou trigons do are vulnerable to all the forceweapons running around...

The trick is to protect your MCs with Shadow in the Warp. Paladins stand no chance against the Swarm Lord. If he casts Paroxysm, they'll only hit him on 5's. Even without it, they have less than a 50% chance to activate their force weapons. He'll kill 5 Paladins in 2 rounds of combat pretty easily.

Trygon Primes also have Shadow in the Warp. With the Swarm Lord improving your reserves, they'll rip his Dreadnoughts to bits easily.

Also, like Ratliker said, Shrikes and Tyranid Warriors with Boneswords can be a back-up plan.

I was going to say that the bone sword+lash whip combination is very effective versus Grey Knights in general. I pack a lot of them in my Tyranid list and it's very effective versus GK. Basically anything that doesn't require a psychic check and is powerful such as the above is good. Paroxysm is good too but often you'll have to roll a six or less on 2d6 when a dreadnaught is closeby so it's not very reliable for those cases. I like to run a lot of units with SitW to help shut down GK psychic powers. The Deathleaper is an obvious choice since it nerfs the GK Libby - even if you only reduce his Ld to 9 it is still effective when combined with SitW... You start shutting down their psychic powers and great things can happen for the Nidz.

Shadow in the Warp creatures, the Hive Tyrants Paraxism power is amazing too and Lashwhips. In my list I'm running a Swarmlord with 2 Tyrant Guard who have Lash Whips. That will do some nasty things to the GK.

Paladins can take this item called the Brotherhood Banner which lets them automatically pass their Force Weapon tests. Since a Librarian isn't an auto-include in Draigo lists, I feel safe knocking down their WS for some mathhammer. A WS4 S4 Paladin inflicts .028 per attack against the Swarmlord. However, the Swarm Lord will only kill 2 and a half Paladins on the charge, so the Daemon Hammers would still instant-gib him. He'll need support.

See above if you think Shadows in the Warp will protect you from Paladins (it will help you a lot against Purifiers).

Warriors with Lash Whips might attack after Paladins with Halberds. The reason why is that if they have a Librarian, and they can get off a Sanctuary when you charge are are going through cover, or just be in cover. Since Lash Whips knock down there opponents to I1 just like moving through cover, and halberds add +2 Int, they get to strike first at I3.

I wonder if Draigo can beat the Swarmlord 1 on 1. It will be a close fight.

nids have an issue with GK in general i think. they can strike first in CC, and average or beat your avg strength, have better armor, and power weapons. in the shooting game, your again out matched, as once inside that 24" range that nids can really be effective the GK can unload a rather withering hail of fire. the only real strength the nids can employ in this kind of game is the numbers game, backed up with some "tricks" to negate the GK advantage.

- for numbers you need something you can spam alot of for little cost. devil gaunts work well for this, and gargoyles as well. obviously tervigons work well in support role to provide buffs and spawn more gaunts. you need something that can throw a punch working with them though, and while hive gaurd are kind of the mandatory AT units something that can shoot and still deal a kicking in CC is kind of required.

-for the "tricks" area...i would suggest something that negates or removes the GK ability to lay down that gunline. so something that can get into thier ranks fast, and cause some damage in the process. trygon primes i think fill this role pretty well. 3 of them popping up in the midst of a GK group will cause some damage, and certainly attract alot of return fire, thus providing cover for your gaunts and tyrant etc to move in and mop up. bring in something like raveners or bonesword/whip /devourer warriors through the trygon holes to add more power. of course, the force weapons and high init will be a concern, but hopefully you inflict some shooting damage prior to charge so limit the reprisal. ymgarl stealers also work pretty well in this kind of thing.

otherwise, you could always do a myceptic spore assault... put everything in pods and attempt to get everything down in the middle of the GK. this game will probally be short bloody and descisive...for which side i imagine depends on the dice. youll have numbers... but yea.

its tough playing the side with the short stack... but with luck and some balls you can win

Blackmoor wrote:See above if you think Shadows in the Warp will protect you from Paladins (it will help you a lot against Purifiers).

Warriors with Lash Whips might attack after Paladins with Halberds. The reason why is that if they have a Librarian, and they can get off a Sanctuary when you charge are are going through cover, or just be in cover. Since Lash Whips knock down there opponents to I1 just like moving through cover, and halberds add +2 Int, they get to strike first at I3.

I wonder if Draigo can beat the Swarmlord 1 on 1. It will be a close fight.

I think Draigo can win.
Swarmlord is a psyker and doesn't have enternal warrior rule, if it takes a unsaved wound from Draigo's S10 sword, Draigo has 50% chance to activate the force weapon and end this combat.

Tar pitting that Draigo Paladin unit can help to slow it down and allow you to kill off the rest of the army before dealing with the Death Star. Tervigons and their free gants are perfect for this. Fearless with synapse and so won't ever run ... The Paladin's are also slow.

How to eventually deal with them? Getting them in SITW bubble is a must. Lashwhips on tyrant guard can let the swarmlord or a tyrant to do their stuff - boneswords, OA and paroxysm are all levellers, but remember that Swarmlord + guard is only about 400 points where the mass Paladain, Draigo, Libby unit could be double that, so you can assume Swarmlord gets help ...

Trimming them down on the way in ... Doom of Malantai can be brutal. Devourer gants can hurt a few from sheer weight of shots. 20 of them will put out 60 shots a turn. TL devourers on fexes, tyrant etc can also hit them with 12 T/L shots that wound on 2s.

For the accompanying dreads, hive guard are about the best you have.

On CC with the swarmlord, any other unit that goes into CC at the same time will help as you restrict their ability to wrap round and all get to hit back at the swarmlord. Obviously a unit of stealers will do more damage than gants with rending and toxin sacs, but the more the merrier to be honest. So position your units so you can get 2,3,4 to all assault at the same time - don't feed them units unless they are cheap gants you want to use to slow them down. If going stealers then a broodlord (or 2) can be good as they are great 1 on 1 due to high WS and Init even if their psychic powers don't get to go off ...

Doesn't the Swarmlord have Eternal Warrior? If yes then doesn't this negate ID from force weapons?

It is very hard to tarpit a Paladin deathstar - they will quickly off most Tyranid units in melee. I think it's better to just avoid them and focus on killing the rest of the army.

The Doom can be a great unit versus GK in general but is very dependent on the opponent rolling high for their leadership tests versus it's Life Leech power.

No, he's very much mortal.

Wow that sucks. I would have never guessed.

I have a deathstar ... 3 lashwhips (2 tyrant guard - 1 t prime) w/ swarmlord. I also have squads w/ Broodlord and Ymgarls. So at 1750+ I don't have a problem.

Swarmlord with tyrant guard, doom, mass shadow, hive guard etc can all be capable but vs pallys its hard due to the fact they can take the banner.

Could you not through clever movement just tie up most the Paladin unit with gants, so as only 1 or 2 are in B2B with the Swarmlord/ToxinWhip Warriors?

felixcat wrote:
I have a deathstar ... 3 lashwhips (2 tyrant guard - 1 t prime) w/ swarmlord. I also have squads w/ Broodlord and Ymgarls. So at 1750+ I don't have a problem.

And even with whips the halberds go at 3, which is before you if you're charging into cover.
All he needs is 3w against you to nuke the swarm lord. That's pretty easy to get.

rigeld2 wrote:

felixcat wrote:
I have a deathstar ... 3 lashwhips (2 tyrant guard - 1 t prime) w/ swarmlord. I also have squads w/ Broodlord and Ymgarls. So at 1750+ I don't have a problem.

And even with whips the halberds go at 3, which is before you if you're charging into cover.
All he needs is 3w against you to nuke the swarm lord. That's pretty easy to get.

Well heres another issue draigo hits swarmie at strength 10, swarmie is I 1. Banner lets squad insta kill. Paroxysm can help swarmlord but many draigo wing have a libby with him so a hood can shut it down. Swarmlord alone isnt adequate without help from the rest of the army.

dev-gaunts! 5 win on the bounce against all forms of MEQ, GK tabled twice

I run 2x15 bug units of these boys and paladins have been slaughtered by them time and again. Granted it once took both units and a 15 gargoyle unit to finish them off, once, that is.

thier is no single unit that can beat a draigowing deathstar in the nid codex. However with a couple of decent units helpin each other out you can smack them all over the place.

The best trick i`ve found recently is to let them charge you then you can counter when there locked in cc. no I1 in 2nd round

First round -
Drago, 3 five man squads of paladins, 2 pyscannon dreads. Paladins are all decked out in various weapons for the purpose of alocating wounds.

Second round -
Coteaz, 3 large groups of henchmen, 6 psycannon dreads.