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So after reviewing the FAQ regarding chaos and discovering that LOS is now a shooting attack and warptime is now far too expensive for what it does, are Daemon Princes still viable? And what other chaos HQ's do you guys run?

Chaoslord with combimelter. Since the chaos HQs are quite meh ( even the daemonprince isn't that hot ) it might be best to simply go for the cheapest possible option.

Yes they're still the best option. IIRC Demon Princes are BS 5 so you hit on a 2. It's not a big nerf. If you don't want to run a demon prince run a sorcerer with lash and warp time or a lord with a demon weapon.

in the scheme of things, the mark of slaanesh and lash upgrade is not that expensive a combo, and can be game winning even now if you only get it off once a game and manage to slaughter/vapourise an opposing troops unit from an objective.

However despite having an all Slaanesh force, I am thinking of dropping the lash from the DP's and still keep the MofS on them (5pts for I6) with wings, as IMO they are still cheaper and better than any other CSM HQ's. Kharn is a boss and at 165 he's cheap, but for the Daemon prince 135 gets you a flying MC combat badass that has an Inv save. Compare that to the flying hive tyrant who will be a lot more pricey and you have a precedent for it

Yes, demon princes are still just fine.

As for other options, I'd note that you can still take LoS on regular sorcerers, who have the ability to hide in squads. Also, a sorc in or out of termie armor with gifts can still be nasty.

Otherwise, I'd probably just take a chaos lord with lightning claws and perhaps the mark of your choice. Keep it cheap.

Chaos Lord, Deamon weapon, Wings. Meteor of destruction anyone?

The problem with demon weapons is that the +1S of the demon weapon isn't as good as the rerolling to wound of the lightning claws. Plus, lightning claws always work, whereas some of the time the demon weapons render the chaos lord utterly worthless.

The ol' sorc is still good. Wings+lash, hide him in a rhino trick still works.
Lords are pretty mediocre, I've had best success with Nurgle DW and wings, oddly enough hiding in a rhino and leaping out to devour a squad or two. He gets slapped by true CC units but outside of that he is a bit of a terror.
DP's are still king. Look at the CSM lord, and his profile, his options and their prices. Now look at the DP. For 20 points more, you get a DP. It's hard to turn down!

DPs are still great no matter how you field them (other than with the Mark of Khorne). I have lots of converted Princes for any situation; 2 Slaanesh Princes each with Lash are still great, especially with Obliterators or Berzerkers. I also run 2 Tzeentch Princes, one with Doombolt and Gift of Chaos, the other with Bolt of Change and Wind of Chaos. While they are a little expensive, they are 2 MCs with 4+ invuls who can do some serious damage in the shooting phase to almost anything, then kick ass in the assault phase. A Nurgle Prince isn't a terrible choice, but I usually pick Tzeentch of Slaanesh over him just because their powers are better. Nurgle's Rot is good against hordes and tarpits, but you generally want your DPs to go after the big, dangerous stuff.

As for non-DP HQs, I love a Khorne Lord with Daemon Weapon. I run him 3 different ways, all pretty cheap:
Lord w/ MoK and Daemon Weapon -140pts
Lord w/ MoK, Daemon Weapon, and Wings -160pts
Lord w/ MoK, Daemon Weapon, and Terminator Armour -155pts
The bare minimum Lord gets thrown in with a squad of Berzerkers; the Winged Lord goes with a squad of Raptors with either the Mark of Slaanesh or Khorne (this is my least used Lord just because I rarely use Raptors); and the Terminator Lord goes with a Terminator squad, usually a Deep Striking Tzeentch marked squad with a Reaper Autocannon and combi-meltas, the squad can do some real damage the turn it arrives and the Lord makes them very deadly in CC. One other combo I use it the Terminator Lord in a Land Raider with a squad of 4 Khorne Terminator Champions with Lightning Claws, these guys dish out 33-41 Power weapon attacks on the charge. While the Khorne Daemon Weapon is pretty risky, I think its worth the risk for so many potential attacks, IMO.


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If you don't like the Bloodfeeder's risk, a Slaanesh Lord with Blissgiver is deadly against mutli-wound units, but it's still got the risks of hurting himself. If you don't want to use a Daemon Weapon at all, then I would say a Slaanesh Sorcerer with Lash is your best better, the Lash is obviously great and he does have a Force Weapon. If your real short on points a very cheap Lord I use is this:
Lord w/ MoS, Power Weapon, and Combi-Weapon -120pts
Put him with any Troop squad to add a solid punch in CC with his 4 S4 I6 Power Weapon attacks, while the Combi-Weapon can be either a Melta or Flamer, depending on whether you need more anti-tank or anti-infantry.

I like the lash sorcerer in a unit of berzerkers w/fist in a rhino. He can shoot out the top and lash a unit in charge range of the zerkers, then he can add some I6 power weapon attacks before the berzerkers get their str 5 ini 5 attacks, and the champ with the str 9 fist can clean up anything left standing.

I generally field Kharn The Betrayer, for 165 points he has great stats, he always hits on a 2+, he's S6 I6 on the charge with 7 attacks. Sure he's not an eternal warrior but meh what can you do, and even if he rolls a 1 on the roll to hit he still has to wound your guys so running him with plague marines works well because its 3+ to wound them when he's charging. He doesn't really kill my men often so i like him for that He also gets an extra D6 to hit penetration roll against armor.

Chaos Lords are also a very viable option for your army, they can be outfitted for various tasks. But generally they go good as anti-infantry, through a daemon weapon on them and a mark of khorne and you have a possible 19 attacks on the charge, keep in mind you you still have the issue of rolling a

Daemon Princes are still good, 110 point base an they still have better stats then most HQ except they can't join squads

Does anyone have any experience with any named characters besides Kharn? I'm really interested in using Typhus, Huron, or Abaddon.

Typhus is garbage. You never pay that much for a guy without eternal warrior. Abaddon is still one of the best close combat fighters in the game, but he's extremely pricey and kind of tough to get into the fight, besides the randomness of his demon weapon. Huron I've never tried, as I'm not a corsairs player.

IXLoiero95XI wrote:I generally field Kharn The Betrayer, for 165 points...

He's actually 165 points plus 23 per 1 he rolls in close combat. With 7 attacks on the charge (which is furious - goodbye plague marines), odds are pretty good you'll flip a 1 once or twice on the charge, and then off another model every turn after that.

People whine way too much about plasma overheats, but kharn is a real betrayer. He makes expensive models on your own side of the board disappear way too fast, and that cost has to actually be added to the cost of taking him. Honestly, after a few rounds of combat, he can get so expensive that he makes abbadon look like a way better idea.

GreatGunz wrote:You never pay that much for a guy without eternal warrior.

no kidding. I once played against a guy who brought Ahriman who took a krak missile to the face before he got a single psychic power off...

imo kharne is the most played because he's the strongest, point for point.


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Ailaros wrote:

GreatGunz wrote:You never pay that much for a guy without eternal warrior.

no kidding. I once played against a guy who brought Ahriman who took a krak missile to the face before he got a single psychic power off...

Best way to learn that lesson, probably.

GreatGunz wrote:imo kharne is the most played because he's the strongest, point for point.

but, of course, he doesn't just cost 165 points unless you run him alone, without eternal warrior. Really, his cost is higher than people think.

GreatGunz wrote:

Ailaros wrote:

GreatGunz wrote:You never pay that much for a guy without eternal warrior.

no kidding. I once played against a guy who brought Ahriman who took a krak missile to the face before he got a single psychic power off...

Best way to learn that lesson, probably.

...yeah... That was actually in this game. This game not only saw Ahrniman eat a single krak missile and die, but it also saw Abbadon with a terminator retinue deepstrike onto one of my ogryn and horribly explode. For my part, I shot a 15 point missile and by my next turn 650 points of chaos HQ and elites choices were gone...

... that game didn't go well for him. I'd like to hope lessons were learned.

Ailaros wrote:

GreatGunz wrote:imo kharne is the most played because he's the strongest, point for point.

but, of course, he doesn't just cost 165 points unless you run him alone, without eternal warrior. Really, his cost is higher than people think.

I guess that's true if you factor in the cost of the guys on your own team that he kills. I don't think it's prohibitive though.
Besides, if your own guys fall to Kharne's axe, that just means they were weak. The legion is stronger without them.

GreatGunz wrote:

Ailaros wrote:

GreatGunz wrote:

You never pay that much for a guy without eternal warrior.

no kidding. I once played against a guy who brought Ahriman who took a krak missile to the face before he got a single psychic power off...

Best way to learn that lesson, probably.

...yeah... That was actually in this game. This game not only saw Ahrniman eat a single krak missile and die, but it also saw Abbadon with a terminator retinue deepstrike onto one of my ogryn and horribly explode. For my part, I shot a 15 point missile and by my next turn 650 points of chaos HQ and elites choices were gone...

... that game didn't go well for him. I'd like to hope lessons were learned.

Poor bastard. I guess the second lesson there was don't spend 25% of your total points on HQs unless you're a spacewolf player.

My favorite HQs are DP with MoS and winds of chaos (seriously, 4+, invul save or die) and wings, or Lord, terminator armor, MoS, and either claws or a dw. If i know i'm fighting a lot of multi-wound models, like MCs, the DW is a must. That, and hitting at I7 tends to wreck things.

There are Chaos HQs that aren't Daemon Princes?

Ailaros wrote:

IXLoiero95XI wrote:I generally field Kharn The Betrayer, for 165 points...

He's actually 165 points plus 23 per 1 he rolls in close combat. With 7 attacks on the charge (which is furious - goodbye plague marines), odds are pretty good you'll flip a 1 once or twice on the charge, and then off another model every turn after that.

People whine way too much about plasma overheats, but kharn is a real betrayer. He makes expensive models on your own side of the board disappear way too fast, and that cost has to actually be added to the cost of taking him. Honestly, after a few rounds of combat, he can get so expensive that he makes abbadon look like a way better idea.

That's one to look at it (though i don't support it) but like i said Kharne rarely kills any of my men. In the last 3 games alone i have fielded him he killed one plague marine and he hit another but failed to wound even though he was S6 from the charge. Just keep a good frame of mind, if you started getting pissed off because your losing and such you start rolling bad. My friend , he roll average or a tad better but if you deal him a big blow his starts getting real annoyed and will roll that many ones it defies the laws of statistics and i'm serious no joke.


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Sigmundr wrote:My favorite HQs are DP with MoS and winds of chaos (seriously, 4+, invul save or die) and wings, or Lord, terminator armor, MoS, and either claws or a dw. If i know i'm fighting a lot of multi-wound models, like MCs, the DW is a must. That, and hitting at I7 tends to wreck things.

What unit in the Chaos Space Marine has I7 , please inform me if these is one ???

I'm not sure were he got I7 either, Chaos Lords don't have Furious Charge and even with the Mark of Slaanesh they only go to I6 I believe.

My brother runs a list with Abbadon with 3 Terminators in a Land Raider and it stomps me every time. Even if I get close enough to melta the Land Raider, the contents pour out and steamroll whatever hit it. It may just be luck on his part, I've seen him roll 6 on his extra attacks like 2 times in the same game. Abbadon will usually wipe out whatever squad they hit without the Terminators getting a chance to swing. This is at 1500 points mind you.

On paper, Abbadon looks too expensive to be worth it but he almost always performs from what I've seen.

ServantofChaos wrote:So after reviewing the FAQ regarding chaos and discovering that LOS is now a shooting attack and warptime is now far too expensive for what it does, are Daemon Princes still viable? And what other chaos HQ's do you guys run?

Best non Daemon Prince HQ in the dex:

Daemon Princess

I've been using my khorne/nurgle lord with a jump pack and demon weapon for years before the FAQ change, still works just as good. I also tend to use typhus from time to time. Fabius bile every so often. Yes, I do win quite often, though the demon prince spammers won't believe me.

Lord with wings/jump pack with a demon weapon is the best thing in the codex, it's cheap and extra killy. If you don't like random, then why the F--K are you playing a game that is based on dice, which are random?

Typhus does seem to expensive, but I have never used him so I don't know. He does auto pass his psychic test, which is cool, but his extra toughness doesn't go towards instant death so S8 Powerfist can insta-kill him. If you do use Abaddon, do you always put him in a Land Raider or can he be Deep Striked in with some Terminators?

Kharne! Abaddon!

Kharnes a damn good HQ, hes cheap, powerful, and can plug into most any list and do something

Lord with Daemon weapon and MOK, put him with some Bezerkers and let the blood flow...

Or give him Terminator armour, MOK and a 10-man Khorne terminator retinue.
One hell of a points sink, but that's an intimidating unit to drop on your enemy.
Especially if you're playing against a tau gunline...

Does anyone even use the Daemon Weapon of Tzeentch?

TasadarTheMadBear wrote:Typhus does seem to expensive, but I have never used him so I don't know. He does auto pass his psychic test, which is cool, but his extra toughness doesn't go towards instant death so S8 Powerfist can insta-kill him. If you do use Abaddon, do you always put him in a Land Raider or can he be Deep Striked in with some Terminators?

Typhus is great due to him having a force weapon thats also a nurgle demon weapon, meaning it's a poisoned force weapon. His winds of chaos is also very useful. Yes, his lack of eternal warrior or simply being toughness 5 hurts quite a bit.

Abbadon works best in a land raider with some termies.

TasadarTheMadBear wrote:Does anyone even use the Daemon Weapon of Tzeentch?

I have used it from time to time, not much since it's not really fluffy with my army.

It's an excellent MEQ killing machine, I've jumped around the field, blasting marines and then charging them, getting that d6 shooting plus 3+1+d6 attacks tends to kill marines quite well.

For refernce, the slanessh demon weapon is simply a multi-wound killing machine, it's not terribly useful otherwise.

it actually depends when you use it or what you have in my army i got a buttload of havocs and khorne berserkers, usually i move them position first and lock my opponent in melee and pepper them with heavy fire before using warp time to add to the mayhem, however my DP is dedicated to khorne and i use him as more of a melee power house