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When one codex can effectively shift the metagame of entire tournament scenes from one type of play to another, then there is at least some justification for concern. Saying that things DIDN'T happen because new codex got x and y can be just as bad as saying certain things WILL because it also got a and b.

As has been repeatedly said, people said the exact same things about the past several codices upon the immediate pre-release/early release phase. It died down quickly.

Looking at the rumors as a Space Wolf player, I see a really nice buff to GH (160 points for 10 GH with Bolter/BP/CCW and two meltas in the squad), as of yet unknown status of BC (they'll be made or broken on special weapon allowance), potentially well-priced bike/jump pack troops, and then a long, long list of not-quite-deathstar power special characters for deathstar costs.

I mean, seriously. Njal looks to be really good, but he doesn't look 250 points good. As people are wont to, they're focusing on imagined lists of nothing but high-cost special characters. The strong SW lists are vastly more likely to be those focused on fielding a lot of power armored bodies efficiently.

It's looking like my guestimate of the new codex a couple of years ago is coming in line -- reduced prices on GH, drastically reduced prices on bikers/jumpers, and a shuffling around of special characters.

I don't even think this is going to significantly change the metagame, as the best SW lists will probably look a lot like the current best SM lists; Blood Claws will likely provide more differentiation from vanilla SMs than any of the drooled-on/reviled/ridiculed special characters.

For me, the big deal for blood claws is the supposed ONE special CCW we get. Can anyone confirm? If so, dreadful news.

The one special CCW for GH also sucks, but isn't as dire to me.

Also, the new wording of berserk charge. +1 additional attack on charge, but if within 6" during the shooting phase cannot shoot? Even though all they have is pistols and assault weapons and could therefore charge even if they DID shoot? Lame. I'll see when I have the book in my hands.

Excited about jump pack marines though. From the sound of certain things, they may replace my blood claws on foot entirely.

Deleted my previous Post and provided a new updated compilation with Rumors from the multiple threads:

Ect:
I saw the release schedule at my local GW, The Space Wolf second wave (within a wave) is coming out 22nd october.

General Rules:

Space Wolves have ATSKNF, Acute Senses, and Counter attack

Drop Pods and Drop Pod Assault is available though capacity is 10. Rhinos and Razorbacks are the same as SM.What? Grey transports have less capacity? Epic fail .

HQ:

Sagas change the objectives in the game in some cases, some are army wide some are individual based. Commanders – 2 sagas, other HQ get only one. Special characters come with them, like Ragnar is re rolls 1‘s. Saga of the Bear grants eternal warrior, and only the wolf lord can take it. Saga of Majesty grants all units within 6" may reroll morale or pinning, another grants cover for the wolfs. Saga of the Warrior Born" you get more attacks the following round equal to the number of his CC kills in the previous turn. Saga of the iron wolf gives +d3 movement to the transport but doesnt mention that the vehicle counts as moving its previous speed like red paint does. Saga of the hunter says "the character" has outflank and stealth, Wolfpriest only. Stealth is passed onto the unit he joins, but outflank is not a USR and it does not mention it in rulebook. Saga of Majesty: All friendly units within 6" get to re-roll failed morale checks. Saga of the Beast Killer: Re-roll to hit and wound against models of T5 or higher. It seems that all of the Sagas are 25 points or higher. Sagas can not be duplicated through the army, and neither can wargear combinations. If outflank transfers to the unit he joins, then I am liking the idea of the Hunter saga...and look, they gave vehicle "running" cause, you know, vehicles just don't have enough advantages in 5th

.

May take 2 HQ per slot but no duplicates (so no 2 wolf lords or rune priests, etc...)

Wolf Lord (100pts): 4 Base Attacks. No Invulnerable Save.

Wolf Guard Battle Leader: WGBL lost the heavy weapon

Ragnar gives himself and the unit he joins d3 extra attacks on the charge. he already has 5 built in and with WS6 and S5 thanks to his Sword. He can howl once per game and all units nearby get Furious Charge. Re rolls 1s. I give you 5th ed. Bararoth

Runepriests (100pts): Runic weapon doubles as a special kind of psychic hood. 24" range like hood, but on a 4+, power fails. New magic no gates, but storm is 24” - gives 5+ cover and turns zone of usage into difficult terrain for skimmers etc. There is also a lightning attack: Psychic shooting attack, 24" line is drawn, all non-vehicle models under the line must make an Iniative test (That means rolling equal or under the model's initiative), models that fail are removed from the board, can hit friendly units, no LOS needed, Monstrous Creatures get -1 bonus on the roll, 6 always fails. Another psychic attack is called Hurricane, forcing numerous str 3 hits on a target, and making its next turn movement count as being in difficult AND dangerous terrain.

Njal casts 3 powers per turn, cancels all psychic attacks on 3+ within 24". You don’t roll for ld, you just plainly cancel them. Njal Storm Caller has a storm whose effects build up over the course of the battle.... its not a psychic test power, the storm just automatically builds each turn he lives. The effects can range from minor (-1BS for all models in 24") to major, in roughly a two foot circumference. The Chooser of the Slain lets you put a marker on the board that doesn't allow infiltrating near it. Awesome rules for an awesome model

Wolfpriests (100pts): As for wolf priests there is NO FNP, or re rolls to hit like Litanes of Hate, they have preferred enemy against 1 type of unit. I believe they might pass this ability onto a unt they join. And it's TYPE of unit ( infantry, bikes, cavalry) etc...Lame

Techpriests: 75 points each, 2 attacks, built in hammer, can take mechanical wolves.

Canis (185 points): Gets 2 wounds, 3 attacks +1 for pair of Wolf Claws, T 5 and S 5, cavalry, Hits on 3+ in CC, and can re roll to wound, can give his unit an amount of attacks equal to the number of models in the squad he charges. Canis is riding a huge wolf. He allows Fen. Wolf pack to become Troops. Canis has 5 base attacks but if he gets surrounded he goes crazy and get one attack for every model in base contact.

Ulrik gives the unit he joins preferred enemy against a unit type he chooses at the start of the game. He makes his squad toughness 5.

Logan Grimnar (275 points): allows to take wolf guards as troops. Eternal warrior. Grimnar gives all units in his army +1 attack if they are within 18 inches. He also has the ability to change the special rules of the unit he is attached to every turn: Fearless, Tank Hunters, Preferred Enemy and relentless.

Bjorn is 270, amour 13/12/10 with a built in 5+ inv. save he is also a ven dread. He allows you to reroll for table edge/first turn. He comes with a assault cannon but you can give him a plasma cannon for FREE with a BS 0f 6!!!! he has 4 base attacks at I3 and WS6. he allows all friendly units with (iirc) 12" to reroll moral. If he is killed all SW become fearless and becomes a new objective to be captured. 270 points huh...I can get a LRC for less

Elites:

Wolf Scouts: Stay the same, but they have only one special gun, 2 power weapons, Behind Enemy lines on a 1 you come in on the right short side of the table, a 2 on the left, 3-6 anywhere you want. Full sized squad can have 2 Plasma Pistols or Power Weapons, plus a Special Weapon. Every Model can have a Boltgun for free or a Sniper Rifle for 3 points. Sarge can’t take fist. Great, now it is random

No LS Storm

Dreads: Similar to SM starting with a free MM or Assault Cannon. No Ironclad. Venerable dreads can take saga of majesty (reroll failed morale if unit within 6"). Dreads and ven dreads can take wolftail talisman and wolftooth necklace

There’s no wolfen and there won’t be any

Wolf Guard: 18 pts. 3-10 in a Squad. Start with PA, Bolt Pistol, Bolt Gun, and CCW. HUGE list of war gear: from bikes and jump packs to TDA & TH & SS to combi-weapons and claws and frost blades. Also, they can leave their own squad and join troops, fast attack, and Wolf Scouts (in case of FA they mount bikes or wear jump packs). He hits on 3's, rerolls to hit and to wound against monstrous creatures

Arjak (170pts): an upgrade for the wolf guard so he’s not an IC, STR 10 Thunderhammer and Storm Shield. He throws the hammer 6" at S10 AP1 assault 1 and he gets an extra attack for his storm shield.

Terminators: 33pts with Terminator Armor, PW and SB. Cost of item depends on which weapon your replacing. Dual Wolf Claws is 48pts. TH/SS is 58pts. and PF/SB is 43pts. WGT can have 1 heavy weapon (AC and Cyclones) per 5 WGTs, squad size is 3-10. No teleportation’s deep strike, but have access to drop pods. Shields give 3++. TDA costs 15 points, it makes all upgrades cheaper – shield is 15 pts, claws is 10 (2 claws is 15), Power fist is 10. Well I guess I won't be fielding TH/SS combos

Lone Wolves is 20 points base. They act independantly...like Nid Zoes. WS 5 with 2 wounds, eternal warrior, feel no pain and re-rolls to hit against Walkers, Monstrous Creatures and things above T5. They are also really angry and have lots of options. Lone Wolves only gives away a KP if one is NOT killed. Compared to 58 pt SM terminators these guys are awesome...unless they act independantly, then they are horrible due to KP craziness

Troops:

Blood Claws: 15 pts each. BS and WS 3, 8 ld. Berserk charge(+2 attacks on charge) is there for ALL blood claw stuff. They can get one PF or PW and one discounted special gun at 5 men and a free special gun at 15. All blood claw units, whether bikes, jump packs, or whatever, have headstrong as a rule. If an enemy unit in your SHOOTING phase is within 6", you may not shoot and must charge in the assault phase. Headstrong rule is removed if the BC squads are led by Wolf Guard.

The Lukas the Trickster is a BC unit upgrade. Lukas has the "Doppleganger hide/cape/skin" that forces the enemy to re roll all his successful to-hit rolls. Lukas the Trickster had his secondary heart ripped out by a Dark Eldar, and he had it replaced with a stasis bomb. The rule is called "the last laugh", each model in base contact rolls a D6 if Lukas rolls equal or higher then they are dead. Not instant death, but removed from play. ...I am so sending this guy's squad against a Titan

Greys Hunters: 15 pts each. 1 attack in profile, 8 ld. CSM style (bp + ccw+ bolter) and grenades. They get 2 specials for 10 man, 1 for 5 guys. First melta costs 5, if you get another five guys you get another melta for free, Plasma Gun is a 10 pt upgrade. Plus they can get 1 PF or PW and one Plasma Pistol. They can take a totem: it allows them to re roll 1. One model can also take mark of the wulfen (1 model gets 1+d6 attacks, doesn't stack with special weapons). PW and PF upgrades for BC's and GH's are the same cost as sergeant upgrades in the SM Codex.

Fast Attack:

Sky Claws (18pts ): BS and WS 3. Blood Claws with Jump Packs

Blood Claw Bikes (25 pts): BS and WS 3. Squad Size 10 plus 1 attack bike. The attack bike is discounted due to being WS3/BS3. The bikers all have CCW/BP which means 4 attacks on the charge. 1 PW or PF. Only get one special gun and are ld 8.

Fenrisian wolves: 4 attacks, 6+ Save and cavalry. 8 points each and 4 WS. Not bad. Combine these with a Wolf Riding Heroe who has stealth and outflank and these might be pretty good

No separate units of attack bikes

Thunderwolf Riders (50pts): 4 attacks, 2 wounds, 5 toughness and strength, cavalry, rending on the charge, can take fist(10), hammer(15), etc. Squads of 1-5.

Heavies:

LR, LRR, and LRC are in the dex

No Thunder fire Cannon

Long Fangs (15pts): Can shoot at two targets at time if their sarge weren’t shooting. Now there can be 7 of them and kit 5 out with heavy weapons. leadership 9. Heavy bolters are 5 points, missiles 10, plasma 20, lascannons 25(not as cool as relentless LF in a rhino but it is an improvement)

Wargear:

They have the same space marine wargear, but it’s cheaper: combi-weapon - 5, fist - 20, frostblade - 20, hammer - 25, storm shield - 25

Cost for claws differs, but they can re roll either to-hit or to-wound.

Frost is a power weapon which gives +1 STR, it’s not two-handed.

There is banner (banner of the wolf I think it was called) and when used lets you re roll all "to hit" rolls in combat for the entire army for one turn.

Elites or Fast attack may include Space Wolves that ride on Cybernetically enhanced Fenrisian Wolves. They have S5 T5 and grant rending. They are 50pts a model. Every HQ lord can take one of the Wolves for a cost listed in their Wargear.

Runic Weapons wound Daemons on a 2+

Wolf tooth necklaces: Always hit on a 3+ in CC

wolftail talisman: nulifies psychic power targetting model on 5+

No Runic Charm

Belt of Russ:4+ Invulnerable

Im not doomsaying or anything, and I don't think this dex is going to be "overpowered"; a small army of Meqs is going to need nasty stuff to stay in the game. I'm just pointing out that while predicting the end of all life because a codex is silly, it is still helpful, because it tells us how the metagame will shift to deal with what people see as threats and what often turns out to be real threats. Sternguard aren't overpowered, but certainly people use them. Vulkan is certainly used to a great degree. At the time of release, Horde Orks existed and was a real army to contend with. When Guard came out, Mechvet was a real army people either used or dealt with, and still do. Heck, my Nid army is still trying to beat some of these things. Saying that "hey you guys stop complaining everything is gonna be fine you so dumb ", (yeah I exaggerated), seems to ignore these possibilities in the rush to put someone else down on the internet, deserved or not.


Now for the Wolves, it seems that the one special per Blood Claw squad is corraborated in a few places, so it might be solid. I thought that was interesting about them, that they could go to battle with all sorts of weaponry, even though they were new recruits, that would normally be assigned in an orderly manner by other chapters.

It's one special CCW availabe in BC and GH squads. Both squads get 1 special weapon that is discounted no matter how many guys you take and both get a second one free when they are at full strength (10 for GH, 15 for BC).

Railguns wrote:Now for the Wolves, it seems that the one special per Blood Claw squad is corraborated in a few places, so it might be solid. I thought that was interesting about them, that they could go to battle with all sorts of weaponry, even though they were new recruits, that would normally be assigned in an orderly manner by other chapters.

Yeah, unfortunately. Makes me glad I didn't fully 5e-ify my SW army; I ran GH over BC about 3:1 in 4e, but felt BC were the better troop choice in 5e (and would have drastically more BCs). If this set of rumors (or, really, at this point, less rumors and more imperfectly relayed memories...) is correct, I'm not sure I'd take BCs on foot; GHs with price drop do their job almost as well and stack a lot more shooting.

I should retract my earlier comment; depending on special weapon allotment, the big difference between SW and SM lists will probably be that SW actually put jumpers in competitive lists; the Skyclaws look really good.

Now I just need to finish up my Salamanders and get to working on wolves again; I've still got four unopened SM Assault Squad boxes from the SM Company box set when 5e came out, and it looks like they're getting built as Skyclaws.

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:No new army has ever broken the game.

Daemons in Fantasy seems to be pretty darn close, like Brets in Fantasy before. Compared with introducing Tau and Dameons, 40k doesn't have nearly the same balance issues. I don't know why that is.
___

Wraithlordmechanic wrote:It's really starting to bother me how GW's been making up units that -at the very least- have never been supported by previous fluff. The latest wtf moment I ran into with a codex was psyker battle squads. there's supposed to be one psyker in what? a million? and yet here you are with up to thirty in an army.

Yeah, I found this strange, myself. The new SM book is rife with this: LS Storm, Thunderfire, and Redeemer in particular caused me a WTF? moment. As a long-time IG player, the IG Codex decisions were just baffling.
____

Agamemnon2 wrote:What I find disheartening about all this is this: There's no way GW can pull another 5-10 units out of their collective backsides when it's time to redo the IG book again in 4 years' time. An armylist cannot keep growing and growing forever, so in a sense, in a sense, this feels like the final iteration.

And yet, in 4 to 6 years, GW will certainly add something or other to the IG book. Probably Salamanders as Fast Attack. Because they can, and because they need to drive new sales.

Agamemnon2 wrote:Which is to say they'll arbitrarily remove units from the codex, only to reintroduce them in the edition after that. Kind of like they did with exterminators, griffons and vanquishers.

Yup, expect to see other things consolidate (Vanquisher = ordnary Russ). Or drop (like the Griffon & Exterminator in the previous IG Codex, and remember those things called "Doctrines"). Or how about Guard Beastmen Regiments and IG Jetbikes if you want to go back to the 2E Codex? And Human Bombs? Yeah.

Hulksmash wrote:It's one special CCW availabe in BC and GH squads. Both squads get 1 special weapon that is discounted no matter how many guys you take and both get a second one free when they are at full strength (10 for GH, 15 for BC).

Plus of course whatever kit you give the attached Wolf Guard.

It's interesting to note that most if not all of the analysis so far has been evaluating each unit at the elemental level, which b/c info is creeping in is really the only way to do it right now. But it seems to me that this codex will be all about the synergy of sagas, how units are outfitted, and special characters and how they interact with one another. This codex will be epitomize the phrase, "more than the sum of it's parts" and I am more looking forward to analyzing how to best mesh these things together to create some fun lists.

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Yeah, I found this strange, myself. The new SM book is rife with this: LS Storm, Thunderfire, and Redeemer in particular caused me a WTF? moment. As a long-time IG player, the IG Codex decisions were just baffling.

The Thunderfire was there in 2nd edition, it just had a crappier name....
Thudd Gun

That's a Squat weapon, not a SM one?

All imperial forces also had Rapier Laser Destroyers, which now seem to have merged with Thudd Guns to form the Thunderfire Cannon for marines.

Nope, Thudd Guns were available for all imperial armies.

as per the datafax card

not to mention the bit of fluff that thudd guns of the space marine chapters were even manned by techmarines who could take servitors.

Does anyone know if wolf priests and rune priest have CSM librarian/chaplain stats or if they have old libby/chappy stats? Most importantly are they I5?

I'm interested because I want to see if that trend continues for when they give BA a proper codex.

OK, thanks. It's been a while since I had the 2E stuff.

from the rumors and the same question asked/answered on warseer, they've got the 5th edition stats for the regular versions. no specific word on the IC's.

ubermosher wrote:

Hulksmash wrote:It's one special CCW availabe in BC and GH squads. Both squads get 1 special weapon that is discounted no matter how many guys you take and both get a second one free when they are at full strength (10 for GH, 15 for BC).

Plus of course whatever kit you give the attached Wolf Guard.

It's interesting to note that most if not all of the analysis so far has been evaluating each unit at the elemental level, which b/c info is creeping in is really the only way to do it right now. But it seems to me that this codex will be all about the synergy of sagas, how units are outfitted, and special characters and how they interact with one another. This codex will be epitomize the phrase, "more than the sum of it's parts" and I am more looking forward to analyzing how to best mesh these things together to create some fun lists.

Well, I think that is largely because SW sergeants come separate from the troop units. Now given that 5th edition mech is powerfull and given that SW rhinos and drop pods are only capcity 10, the thought is which do you want more...a pricey CC WG sergeant or a cheap second special gun. Personally, I am more in favor of the second cheap gun. Also, I don't see BC as troops having a big role in 5th given that they no longer have access to multiple special CC weapons and GH are now economical.

Right now, I am liking the looks of having 3 Jump Pack units led by WG and/or SC backed up by 4 units of ten man GH in rhinos plus some extra fun in Njal and Ragnar

So, when a Wolf Guard joins a GH pack and all the GH die and leave him by his lonesome, is he able to claim objectives? I guess the question is, does he become a troop choice when he joins a GH or BC pack, or remain an elite?

From my understanding, he becomes an upgrade character and thus does not give up a separate KP and counts as the unit he originally joined.

The info

We have on the codex doesn't sound overpowered. But it does sound to give a few ways of making a harder ass build for CC than other SM builds (at present). So it looks to offer and nice and relatively inexpensive way to get together a new army for the purpose of fun games and for less competitive things, like making allied or four player games!

After reading the SW rumours I re-examined the CSM codex, and Abaddon is still as BAD as I recall. Because he can team up with Termis and heaps of combi meltas, there are plenty of hard units that could match it with the imminent bearded SWs.

Its less a case of codex creep and more a case of something refreshing than I previously suspected.

I guess whining is so much fun that I can't resist imaging things are cheesy or broken, when truth is just about every codex under the sun, still has some of it!

OTG

wyomingfox wrote:Deleted my previous Post and provided a new updated compilation with Rumors from the multiple threads:

Ect:
I saw the release schedule at my local GW, The Space Wolf second wave (within a wave) is coming out 22nd october.

General Rules:

Space Wolves have ATSKNF, Acute Senses, and Counter attack

Drop Pods and Drop Pod Assault is available though capacity is 10. Rhinos and Razorbacks are the same as SM.What? Grey transports have less capacity? Epic fail .

HQ:

Sagas change the objectives in the game in some cases, some are army wide some are individual based. Commanders – 2 sagas, other HQ get only one. Special characters come with them, like Ragnar is re rolls 1‘s. Saga of the Bear grants eternal warrior, and only the wolf lord can take it. Saga of Majesty grants all units within 6" may reroll morale or pinning, another grants cover for the wolfs. Saga of the Warrior Born" you get more attacks the following round equal to the number of his CC kills in the previous turn. Saga of the iron wolf gives +d3 movement to the transport but doesnt mention that the vehicle counts as moving its previous speed like red paint does. Saga of the hunter says "the character" has outflank and stealth, Wolfpriest only. Stealth is passed onto the unit he joins, but outflank is not a USR and it does not mention it in rulebook. Saga of Majesty: All friendly units within 6" get to re-roll failed morale checks. Saga of the Beast Killer: Re-roll to hit and wound against models of T5 or higher. It seems that all of the Sagas are 25 points or higher. Sagas can not be duplicated through the army, and neither can wargear combinations. If outflank transfers to the unit he joins, then I am liking the idea of the Hunter saga...and look, they gave vehicle "running" cause, you know, vehicles just don't have enough advantages in 5th

.

May take 2 HQ per slot but no duplicates (so no 2 wolf lords or rune priests, etc...)

Wolf Lord (100pts): 4 Base Attacks. No Invulnerable Save.

Wolf Guard Battle Leader: WGBL lost the heavy weapon

Ragnar gives himself and the unit he joins d3 extra attacks on the charge. he already has 5 built in and with WS6 and S5 thanks to his Sword. He can howl once per game and all units nearby get Furious Charge. Re rolls 1s. I give you 5th ed. Bararoth

Runepriests (100pts): Runic weapon doubles as a special kind of psychic hood. 24" range like hood, but on a 4+, power fails. New magic no gates, but storm is 24” - gives 5+ cover and turns zone of usage into difficult terrain for skimmers etc. There is also a lightning attack: Psychic shooting attack, 24" line is drawn, all non-vehicle models under the line must make an Iniative test (That means rolling equal or under the model's initiative), models that fail are removed from the board, can hit friendly units, no LOS needed, Monstrous Creatures get -1 bonus on the roll, 6 always fails.

Njal casts 3 powers per turn, cancels all psychic attacks on 3+ within 24". You don’t roll for ld, you just plainly cancel them. Not to mention his passive power chart that has one of them as -1BS for all models in 24". The Chooser of the Slain lets you put a marker on the board that doesn't allow infiltrating near it. Awesome rules for an awesome model

Wolfpriests (100pts): As for wolf priests there is NO FNP, or re rolls to hit like Litanes of Hate, they have preferred enemy against 1 type of unit. I believe they might pass this ability onto a unt they join. And it's TYPE of unit ( infantry, bikes, cavalry) etc...Lame

Techpriests: 75 points each, 2 attacks, built in hammer, can take mechanical wolves.

Canis (185 points): Gets 2 wounds, 3 attacks +1 for pair of Wolf Claws, T 5 and S 5, cavalry, Hits on 3+ in CC, and can re roll to wound, can give his unit an amount of attacks equal to the number of models in the squad he charges. Canis is riding a huge wolf. He allows Fen. Wolf pack to become Troops. Canis has 5 base attacks but if he gets surrounded he goes crazy and get one attack for every model in base contact.

Ulrik gives the unit he joins preferred enemy against a unit type he chooses at the start of the game. He makes his squad toughness 5.

Logan Grimnar (275 points): allows to take wolf guards as troops. Eternal warrior. Grimnar gives all units in his army +1 attack if they are within 18 inches. He also has the ability to change the special rules of the unit he is attached to every turn: Fearless, Tank Hunters, Preferred Enemy and relentless.

Bjorn is 270, amour 13/12/10 with a built in 5+ inv. save he is also a ven dread. he comes with a assault cannon but you can give him a plasma cannon for FREE with a BS 0f 6!!!! he has 4 base attacks at I3 and WS6. he allows all friendly units with (iirc) 12" to reroll moral. If he is killed all SW become fearless and becomes a new objective to be captured. 270 points huh...I can get a LRC for less

Elites:

Wolf Scouts: Stay the same, but they have only one special gun, 2 power weapons, Behind Enemy lines on a 1 you come in on the right short side of the table, a 2 on the left, 3-6 anywhere you want. Full sized squad can have 2 Plasma Pistols or Power Weapons, plus a Special Weapon. Every Model can have a Boltgun for free or a Sniper Rifle for 3 points. Sarge can’t take fist. Great, now it is random

No LS Storm

Dreads: Similar to SM starting with a free MM or Assault Cannon. No Ironclad. Venerable dreads can take saga of majesty (reroll failed morale if unit within 6"). Dreads and ven dreads can take wolftail talisman and wolftooth necklace

There’s no wolfen and there won’t be any

Wolf Guard: 18 pts. 3-10 in a Squad. Start with PA, Bolt Pistol, Bolt Gun, and CCW. HUGE list of war gear: from bikes and jump packs to TDA & TH & SS to combi-weapons and claws and frost blades. Also, they can leave their own squad and join troops, fast attack, and Wolf Scouts (in case of FA they mount bikes or wear jump packs). He hits on 3's, rerolls to hit and to wound against monstrous creatures

Arjak (170pts): an upgrade for the wolf guard so he’s not an IC, STR 10 Thunderhammer and Storm Shield. He throws the hammer 6" at S10 AP1 assault 1 and he gets an extra attack for his storm shield.

Terminators: 33pts with Terminator Armor, PW and SB. Cost of item depends on which weapon your replacing. Dual Wolf Claws is 48pts. TH/SS is 58pts. and PF/SB is 43pts. WGT can have 1 heavy weapon (AC and Cyclones) per 5 WGTs, squad size is 3-10. No teleportation’s deep strike, but have access to drop pods. Shields give 3++. TDA costs 15 points, it makes all upgrades cheaper – shield is 15 pts, claws is 10 (2 claws is 15), Power fist is 10. Well I guess I won't be fielding TH/SS combos

Lone Wolves is 20 points base. They act independantly...like Nid Zoes. WS 5 with 2 wounds, eternal warrior, feel no pain and re-rolls to hit against Walkers, Monstrous Creatures and things above T5. They are also really angry and have lots of options. Lone Wolves only gives away a KP if one is NOT killed. Compared to 58 pt SM terminators these guys are awesome...unless they act independantly, then they are horrible due to KP craziness

Troops:

Blood Claws: 15 pts each. BS and WS 3, 8 ld. Berserk charge(+2 attacks on charge) is there for ALL blood claw stuff. They can get one PF or PW and one discounted special gun at 5 men and a free special gun at 15. All blood claw units, whether bikes, jump packs, or whatever, have headstrong as a rule. If an enemy unit in your SHOOTING phase is within 6", you may not shoot and must charge in the assault phase. Headstrong rule is removed if the BC squads are led by Wolf Guard.

The Lukas the Trickster is a BC unit upgrade. Lukas has the "Doppleganger hide/cape/skin" that forces the enemy to re roll all his successful to-hit rolls. Lukas the Trickster had his secondary heart ripped out by a Dark Eldar, and he had it replaced with a stasis bomb. The rule is called "the last laugh", each model in base contact rolls a D6 if Lukas rolls equal or higher then they are dead. Not instant death, but removed from play. ...I am so sending this guy's squad against a Titan

Greys Hunters: 15 pts each. 1 attack in profile, 8 ld. CSM style (bp + ccw+ bolter) and grenades. They get 2 specials for 10 man, 1 for 5 guys. First melta costs 5, if you get another five guys you get another melta for free, Plasma Gun is a 10 pt upgrade. Plus they can get 1 PF or PW and one Plasma Pistol. They can take a totem: it allows them to re roll 1. One model can also take mark of the wulfen (1 model gets 1+d6 attacks, doesn't stack with special weapons). PW and PF upgrades for BC's and GH's are the same cost as sergeant upgrades in the SM Codex.

Fast Attack:

Sky Claws (18pts ): BS and WS 3. Blood Claws with Jump Packs

Blood Claw Bikes (25 pts): BS and WS 3. Squad Size 10 plus 1 attack bike. The attack bike is discounted due to being WS3/BS3. The bikers all have CCW/BP which means 4 attacks on the charge. 1 PW or PF. Only get one special gun and are ld 8.

Fenrisian wolves: 4 attacks, 6+ Save and cavalry. 8 points each and 4 WS. Not bad. Combine these with a Wolf Riding Heroe who has stealth and outflank and these might be pretty good

No separate units of attack bikes

Thunderwolf Riders (50pts): 4 attacks, 2 wounds, 5 toughness and strength, cavalry, rending on the charge, can take fist(10), hammer(15), etc. Squads of 1-5.

Heavies:

LR, LRR, and LRC are in the dex

No Thunder fire Cannon

Long Fangs (15pts): Can shoot at two targets at time if their sarge weren’t shooting. Now there can be 7 of them and kit 5 out with heavy weapons. leadership 9. Heavy bolters are 5 points, missiles 10, plasma 20, lascannons 25(not as cool as relentless LF in a rhino but it is an improvement)

Wargear:

They have the same space marine wargear, but it’s cheaper: combi-weapon - 5, fist - 20, frostblade - 20, hammer - 25, storm shield - 25

Cost for claws differs, but they can re roll either to-hit or to-wound.

Frost is a power weapon which gives +1 STR, it’s not two-handed.

There is banner (banner of the wolf I think it was called) and when used lets you re roll all "to hit" rolls in combat for the entire army for one turn.

Elites or Fast attack may include Space Wolves that ride on Cybernetically enhanced Fenrisian Wolves. They have S5 T5 and grant rending. They are 50pts a model. Every HQ lord can take one of the Wolves for a cost listed in their Wargear.

Runic Weapons wound Daemons on a 2+

Wolf tooth necklaces: Always hit on a 3+ in CC

wolftail talisman: nulifies psychic power targetting model on 5+

No Runic Charm

Belt of Russ:4+ Invulnerable

What is supposed to be included in this second wave on the 22nd?

Ect:
I saw the release schedule at my local GW, The Space Wolf second wave (within a wave) is coming out 22nd october.

Ah, must be nice.

GW have instituted some ungodly stupid "cone of silence" about upcoming releases. To the point that retailers and distributors don't even know what's coming out, and staff get fired for saying too much. There is supposedly someone in charge of what they won't tell us, and when they wont tell us. Hugely frustrating as a retailer that actually tries to run events for them.

I officially know the codex and a sprue with bitz are coming out, and probably in October. Other than that, mushroom treatment, and everyone at GW saying 'we don't know either'. GW speak for "I know, but I get fired if I tell you".

Makes me frustrated and I just give up even trying to run events "Hey everyone! Who wants to come in on Oct. 3rd to buy something vaguely space puppyish! And I have an event scheduled, don't know when, that will somehow tie into rumors of the new armie".

Yes, starting to get bitter.

Archonate wrote:Yeah, what were we thinking? GW has never disappointed us before...

Yes because I said Gw were perfect.

Oh wait, no hang on. (re-reads his post) Apparently I didn't.

I said the massive hyperbolic over reaction people are having to the perceived power level of the new codex is an over reaction.

And what's more we have the same hyperbolic over reaction to the perceived power level of EVERY new codex, and it is always an over reaction, and it is always the same bloody people doing the over reacting and you'd think by now they might have learned to chill out a little.

Learn to parse a sentence first before you try being sarcastic.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:No new army has ever broken the game.

Daemons in Fantasy seems to be pretty darn close, like Brets in Fantasy before. Compared with introducing Tau and Dameons, 40k doesn't have nearly the same balance issues. I don't know why that is.

Is it because they are far more maneuverable than your standard army is, giving them a huge tactical advantage? This wouldn't translate the same in 40k.

Here's some info that appears to be missing, at least for some. And it's mostly hyperbole free...

1) Space Wolf releases this year begin on October 3. The Codex, new plastic Marine set, new Terminators large metal wolf rider, and possibly some other items are released on Oct. 3. Some other items may appear two weeks later.

2) Space Wolves, like other major releases this year, are likely split into two release dates a couple weeks apart. This does not constitute what has come to be known as a "second wave" as those are releases of further models for a range months after the initial release.

3) Space Wolf Packs (i.e., "black boxes") went out to hobby centers this week. Many GW stores and independent retailers should have the new Space Wolf Codex and plastic sample sprues this week. Pictures and an announcement about this have been up on the GW website since Monday at this link.

4) My local GW store had the Space Wolf Pack today. The book is beautiful, the sprues more so. Virtually every piece on the new sprue had new themed detail added to it. Wolf skulls, wolf heads, Norse runes, terrific new bits like a highly stylized Thunderhammer, etc. The new plastic sprue is just fantastic. Lots more bits are on the sprue than are needed for the five Marines that come on it, so you can use the extra parts to dress up ordinary Space Marine plastics to fit in with the Space Wolves, much like the extra bits on the Dark Angel Veteran sprue already do for that army.

Moopy wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:No new army has ever broken the game.

Daemons in Fantasy seems to be pretty darn close,

Is it because they are far more maneuverable than your standard army is, giving them a huge tactical advantage? This wouldn't translate the same in 40k.

As I understand it, it's because Daemons don't have any of the normal weaknesses for opponents to exploit, and muc of what would normally be weaknesses are completely mitigated by army special rules.

For example, in normal Fantasy, you have to pass Ld if Fear-causing units are nearby, or if you want to attack them; Daemons ignore all of that stuff and *cause* Fear to boot. Or, if you lose combat, there is a chance to break and be run down; Daemons are unbreakable and just take a couple wounds. Or, if you wound, you can negate armor saves by Strong attacks; Daemons have Invulnerable Daemonic Ward saves. And then, you'd expect that Magic is limited to roughly 2 levels per Hero, except Daemons can have strong Magic as Core Troops.

So all of the normal balance stuff kind of drops away.

I have to agree with above that the dex is not over done and is for the most part fair. We get cool goodies but we pay out the nose for them. I do see some interesting builds though that will give people fits. I don't see them ruling the tourney scene anytime soon. It is hard to win with low model count in my opinion and that is going to be standard for the wolves it seems. Not always but in general. Just my two cents.

Why is logan grimnar more expensive than marneus calgar, Ghazgull Thraka, Eldrad, AND WHY IS HE THE SAME POINTS VALUE AS ABBADON THE DESPOILER. He's 25 points shy of the deciever, who is a million year old god, and two points shy of asdrubeal vect, a 20,000 year old eldar who has ruled the most violent race in 40k for that entire stretch of time, and who brings his flying tank with him to the fight.

Did he grind baal for awesome loot? Does he have a cosmic cube? Did his latent mutant power of controlling the weather finally make it into a codex?

Did he really need to get even more expensive and powerful? He was 250 points before, back when spending that on a special character was mind blowing.

His abilities and the chance to take 18pt 2 base attack (3 w/BP+CCW) models means he is worth the difference. I think it's a possibility that I'll probably explore sometime for fun. He's also pretty gross individually too.

ShumaGorath wrote:Why is logan grimnar more expensive than marneus calgar, Ghazgull Thraka, Eldrad, AND WHY IS HE THE SAME POINTS VALUE AS ABBADON THE DESPOILER. He's 25 points shy of the deciever, who is a million year old god, and two points shy of asdrubeal vect, a 20,000 year old eldar who has ruled the most violent race in 40k for that entire stretch of time, and who brings his flying tank with him to the fight.

Did he grind baal for awesome loot? Does he have a cosmic cube? Did his latent mutant power of controlling the weather finally make it into a codex?

Did he really need to get even more expensive and powerful? He was 250 points before, back when spending that on a special character was mind blowing.

Logan Grimnar being 275 points is no more absurd than Marneus Calgar being 265 points.

Quite frankly, while he is good at close combat, he's not a mind-blowing close combat monster. A lot of his points are based in the bonuses he provides to other units, and to the army in general (providing his unit with one of a list of special rules, and making Wolf Guard troops).