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Skarboy wrote:Further, if Scourges deepstrike, if they have a jetpack, can they not land (movement phase), fire (shooting phase), 6" move (assault phase)? There might actually be a deepstrike melta unit that doesn't just stand there in the open (with a decent/lucky deepstrike, at least). We'll see.

I think they can indeed do this, unless they are given a special rule disallowing them to use the assault move (ala XV8 suits).

Did you all see this on GW

About Lelith:

"Lelith Hesperax is the ideal accompaniment to your Wych squads and she really is a walking weapon. With Weapon Skill 9 and 4 Attacks that ignore armour saves, plus an extra one for each point her Weapon Skill is higher than her foe's, Lelith can murder entire squads."

About the Archon:

Archon model has access to the Huskblade, which causes Instant Death on any model that suffers an unsaved wound, regardless of their Toughness

I'm starting to feel like Phil Kelly was pissed that they didn't let him do the new Nids and so has made both of his codexes for this edition absolute death on Nids.....

My mind is racing w/ possible tactics which are hopefully not hard to pull off. Like running Hellions and Scourges together to target IC's. Hellions go in, take the IC, Scourges provide firesupport while the IC is pulled away and slaughtered...MMmmm very tasty. Ofc any good combination would work with Hellions I'm thinking.

I dont really see the Hellion Scourge combo working to well (scourges seem more like an AT or anti-MC type unit). What COULD work well is hellions pulling the IC out with them right to a nearby archon/lelith/unit of incubi.

Of course we should keep in mind that the IC isn't harmed until the opponents turn...

You know, with all the anti-IC stuff and heavy weapons that seem to be available in the army, this may be GW's way of apologizing for all the ridiculous SM characters we see floating around. People will be much less likely to take supercharged special characters, etc. if they are more likely to lose them.

That and all the High strength/lance/melta weapons in the army, we may finally see an end to the predominance of mech (thank god).

Lelith Hesperax is the ideal accompaniment to your Wych squads and she really is a walking weapon. With Weapon Skill 9 and 4 Attacks that ignore armour saves, plus an extra one for each point her Weapon Skill is higher than her foe's

bye bye marine squad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gwar! wrote:

Amaya wrote:I'm not seeing Lelith's rules up on GW US, but I hope what you've posted is true. She should be the best CC SC in the game.

It's part of the blurb on the UK site:

Pretty much a "YOU MUST BUY THIS MODEL" signed on it...next they will be telling me how useful guardsmen are.

chaos0xomega wrote:I dont really see the Hellion Scourge combo working to well (scourges seem more like an AT or anti-MC type unit). What COULD work well is hellions pulling the IC out with them right to a nearby archon/lelith/unit of incubi.

Of course we should keep in mind that the IC isn't harmed until the opponents turn...

You know, with all the anti-IC stuff and heavy weapons that seem to be available in the army, this may be GW's way of apologizing for all the ridiculous SM characters we see floating around. People will be much less likely to take supercharged special characters, etc. if they are more likely to lose them.

That and all the High strength/lance/melta weapons in the army, we may finally see an end to the predominance of mech (thank god).

It'd take some working, my thought was the Scourges should be able to provide a hail of fire to thin out a unit from where an IC was pulled. I also was thinking how grand it'd be if you have a CC w/ an IC and his unit that was taking forever, just have the Hellions swoop in and pull out the IC leaving the unit to be wiped thereafter.

Bye Bye lance spam too. (not a terrible things, all things considered)

Warriors 1pt more than current, needing 10 models for a Dark Lance option at the cost of a marine Power Fist.

Still not HORRIBLE, but probably better off putting their poison to good use against foot troopers.

chaos0xomega wrote:I dont really see the Hellion Scourge combo working to well (scourges seem more like an AT or anti-MC type unit). What COULD work well is hellions pulling the IC out with them right to a nearby archon/lelith/unit of incubi.

Of course we should keep in mind that the IC isn't harmed until the opponents turn...

You know, with all the anti-IC stuff and heavy weapons that seem to be available in the army, this may be GW's way of apologizing for all the ridiculous SM characters we see floating around. People will be much less likely to take supercharged special characters, etc. if they are more likely to lose them.

That and all the High strength/lance/melta weapons in the army, we may finally see an end to the predominance of mech (thank god).

Ridiculous SM Characters? Is this another "They get special characters, they must be good!"? Besides, most ridiculous characters have eternal warrior and will be able to handle a squad of unarmored space elf pansies on hoverboards.

Eternal warrior doenst help you vs poison though....

Most stuff that is supposed to be REALLY tough to kill simply has a high toughness and an invuln save attached.

I dont think I'll be adding Dark Lances to Warrior Squads...Splinter cannons...Yep.

Bye Bye thunderwolf cav.

Deadshane1 wrote:Bye Bye lance spam too. (not a terrible things, all things considered)

Warriors 1pt more than current, needing 10 models for a Dark Lance option at the cost of a marine Power Fist.

Still not HORRIBLE, but probably better off putting their poison to good use against foot troopers.

Wow... So only 1 DL per unit eh? Or is it 1/10?

And wow, 2.5x the points cost for a DL. Nasty.

I assume you can take a raider though even with 20 models right?

Gwar! wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:Bye Bye lance spam too. (not a terrible things, all things considered)

Warriors 1pt more than current, needing 10 models for a Dark Lance option at the cost of a marine Power Fist.

Still not HORRIBLE, but probably better off putting their poison to good use against foot troopers.

Wow... So only 1 DL per unit eh? Or is it 1/10?

And wow, 2.5x the points cost for a DL. Nasty.

I assume you can take a raider though even with 20 models right?

At least looking at the sprues from the warrior squad, as posted by GW, there is only 1 DL per 10 man squad. Ofc, I also only noted 1 Splinter Cannon, 1 Shredder and 1 other SW. Heat lance maybe? Cause a Splinter Carbine is so close to what a Splinter Cannon does, that it wouldn't make sense to have both available as an upgrade for 1 squad.

Gwar! wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:Bye Bye lance spam too. (not a terrible things, all things considered)

Warriors 1pt more than current, needing 10 models for a Dark Lance option at the cost of a marine Power Fist.

Still not HORRIBLE, but probably better off putting their poison to good use against foot troopers.

Wow... So only 1 DL per unit eh? Or is it 1/10?(...)
I assume you can take a raider though even with 20 models right?

It is 1/10 with a max of 20 Warriors.
And a Raider has a transport capacity of 10, not 20.

Kroothawk wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:Bye Bye lance spam too. (not a terrible things, all things considered)

Warriors 1pt more than current, needing 10 models for a Dark Lance option at the cost of a marine Power Fist.

Still not HORRIBLE, but probably better off putting their poison to good use against foot troopers.

Wow... So only 1 DL per unit eh? Or is it 1/10?(...)
I assume you can take a raider though even with 20 models right?

It is 1/10 with a max of 20 Warriors.
And a Raider has a transport capacity of 10, not 20.

I wondered how they worded it in the codex though.

"Squads numbering 10 or less may take a raider"
OR
"Squads may take a raider"

Big difference.

... or "even units larger than 10 may take a raider, but only 10 fit on it and the rest has to walk behind it. Please keep unit coherence of 1" between miniatures"

Not a big surprise on the dark lance pricing.. After all Phil did the eldar book too and obviously believes that S8 lance weapons are worth the same cost

Fine by me.. Dark lance spam was anti-tactics and really pigeon holed DE to be a boring play-and-ebay army

Kirasu wrote:Not a big surprise on the dark lance pricing.. After all Phil did the eldar book too and obviously believes that S8 lance weapons are worth the same cost

Fine by me.. Dark lance spam was anti-tactics and really pigeon holed DE to be a boring play-and-ebay army

Or just nearly unbeatable at 1500 or less. Yes, you won because you have skill and not because your 20 Lance alpha strike killed everything. >.>

Irdiumstern wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:I dont really see the Hellion Scourge combo working to well (scourges seem more like an AT or anti-MC type unit). What COULD work well is hellions pulling the IC out with them right to a nearby archon/lelith/unit of incubi.

Of course we should keep in mind that the IC isn't harmed until the opponents turn...

You know, with all the anti-IC stuff and heavy weapons that seem to be available in the army, this may be GW's way of apologizing for all the ridiculous SM characters we see floating around. People will be much less likely to take supercharged special characters, etc. if they are more likely to lose them.

That and all the High strength/lance/melta weapons in the army, we may finally see an end to the predominance of mech (thank god).

Ridiculous SM Characters? Is this another "They get special characters, they must be good!"? Besides, most ridiculous characters have eternal warrior and will be able to handle a squad of unarmored space elf pansies on hoverboards.

I'm talking about things like Mephiston, Vulkan, etc. Not necessarily overpowered by any means, just overused ones that I'd like to see die in a fiery explosion. CSM got a couple too (Kharn, Abaddon).

I assume you can take a raider though even with 20 models right?

I would assume no, in the pics the raiders look pretty large, but you'd be lucky to fit 10 guys on there...

Kirasu wrote:Not a big surprise on the dark lance pricing.. After all Phil did the eldar book too and obviously believes that S8 lance weapons are worth the same cost

Within an Eldar context, and without real S9 r48" Lascannons being available, he just *might* be right.


... he'd be wrong, though.


Given the choice, for the same points cost, the Imperial Lascannon is clearly superior to the Eldar one.

Oh I agree DD.. I think bright lances are horribly overpiced for what they do :p Im just saying it makes sense

Atleast its a sweet looking model as opposed to the guardian weapon platform

I dunno, round my parts the bright lance is woefully underused (I only have one in my army, I'm not sure if the other eldar players even have that many). Hopefully he will have realized that somethings gotta give.

It would appear realization has not occured due to the points cost in the DE book

Screw warriors i will be looking into a wych cult army lelith as HQ with the new rule that gives your raider 2d6 plus movement hell yeah!!!

Kirasu wrote:It would appear realization has not occured due to the points cost in the DE book

Do you know this for sure or are you going from a second hand source?

Well if warriors can still take blaster, and they are improved to 18 instead of 12 I can see people taking raider squads with 5 warriors (didnt say for special weapons just lances). They'll be just as effective as the old.

Kirasu wrote:It would appear realization has not occured due to the points cost in the DE book

Or, perhaps, Phil simply doesn't want Eldar to fight effectively at long range...

I'm liking everything but the Implosion missiles, mostly since I'm tired of weapons and abilities that bypass all the normal mechanics of killing models. It's not that they're overpowered (some are certainly stronger against certain opponents, but I digress), I really just don't like how GW is introducing lots of abilities that radically circumvent the existing framework for how models on the table fight.

With abilities that only require a bit of luck to instantly remove expensive, heroic/monstrous models off the table, it gives players even more incentive to mechanize.

Don't think I'm hating on the new rules though. (Assuming they're mostly accurate). I really like everything else I've seen. I just had to point out that little pet peeve of mine.

Xca|iber wrote:I really just don't like how GW is introducing lots of abilities that radically circumvent the existing framework for how models on the table fight.

Wouldn't it be great if rather than having lots of different rules for each unit that had slight variations between each one, leading to lots of confusion and exceptions to exceptions, that they instead had a codified list of rules that applied to all armies. You could call them "General Specialist Rules" or.... "Universal Special Rules".

Oh wait...

I dunno, at the same time they have rules for characteristic tests -- why not use them for something other then just Hit and Run?

winterman wrote:I dunno, at the same time they have rules for characteristic tests -- why not use them for something other then just Hit and Run?

Huh? Characteristic tests are used for lots of things.

Boon of Mutation, Gift of Chaos and Jaws of t3h Werld Wolf to name a few!