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Pretty sure it has been that cost forever as well. There's plenty of things that have been the same for a while.

For instance, Immolators are cheaper than rhinos right now.

Well, if it's a Chaos Renegades codex, I think it's actually going to be a new Codex, that, instead of replacing the CSM one, adds more Chaos forces- renegade Guardsmen, Corsairs, and things of that nature. Maybe even Chaos Androids!

Anvildude wrote:Well, if it's a Chaos Renegades codex, I think it's actually going to be a new Codex, that, instead of replacing the CSM one, adds more Chaos forces- renegade Guardsmen, Corsairs, and things of that nature. Maybe even Chaos Androids!

Yeah, that whole dual codex thing has been shot down by pretty much everyone. Right now, it looks like just a new CSM codex.

So if there are no longer a random number of turns, then invincible Deathleaper just got. . .buffed?



King of objective games.

kirsanth wrote:So if there are no longer a random number of turns, then invincible Deathleaper just got. . .buffed?



King of objective games.

Only if you go second.

pretre wrote:Only if you go second.

Only literally invincible when second, you mean. Still a ridiculously amazing unit in any objective game.

editing to add:
I am just sad it took me so long to realize it.

erikwfg wrote:Still seems weird with the cost. Also weird to see metal models mixed with plastic.

Don't know if this is a bad sign: they are still selling the CSM codex. It hasn't been removed like the 5th ed BRB.

new chaos codex is being released in about 3-4 months time, while 6th Ed is next month
Doubt they'd take it off the shelves this early

kirsanth wrote:So if there are no longer a random number of turns, then invincible Deathleaper just got. . .buffed?



King of objective games.

How did Deathleaper get buffed?

You can pull him off the table and put him in reserve. Normally, this is risky, since there might not be a next turn. If there's no random game length, there is no longer a risk.

Move, Assault, Then Shoot? Is that true?
If so its absolutely stupid.

Move, Assault, Then Shoot? Is that true?

I'm willing to give it a try. I like that units don't get to both shoot at their target and then assault it, but when you take it further you realise you don't get to soften up any target with shooting from 'helper units' before charging with your assault units. It certainly changes a lot of strategies.

For example, with my Space Wolves, I really liked dealing with massive Genestealer units by first flaming and boltering them from multiple units of GH and then assaulting the stragglers with a couple TWC and heroes. Now the whole situation is backwards and you either shoot them and let the survivors come, or take the risk of dangling with big squads of assault specialists at full strength.

Not really. What it does is both Nerf and Buff Assaulty units- Nerfs them, because you can no longer fire Pistols or Assault weapons into units before attacking them (in that turn), and Buffs them because it significantly reduces the chance of enough casualties in the Shooting phase making the enemy impossible to assault.

and Buffs them because it significantly reduces the chance of enough casualties in the Shooting phase making the enemy impossible to assault.

By significantly you mean completely since there's no casualties of any kind before the assault phase.

If you think about this, the rumour about assault weapons counting as additional CCWs in close combat makes a lot of sense. Together with the rumoured buff to rapid fire weapons (move and shoot to full range) the assault weapons wouldn't have any advantages otherwise. This also makes poisoning Spinegaunts with preferred enemy quite scary considering they're free meat shields. Double the attacks as before, and now also re-rolling the wound rolls.

Triarch Praetorians just keep getting better and better! Extra attack from the assault weapon and an extra attack when charging at I10 because of the jump packs. At 3 attacks a piece (4 on the charge) they're a lot better than now, despite the awful points cost. If the rumours are to be believed that is.

Therion wrote:

and Buffs them because it significantly reduces the chance of enough casualties in the Shooting phase making the enemy impossible to assault.

By significantly you mean completely since there's no casualties of any kind before the assault phase.

If you think about this, the rumour about assault weapons counting as an additional CCW in close combat makes a lot of sense. Together with the rumoured buff to rapid fire weapons (move and shoot to full range) the assault weapons wouldn't have any advantages otherwise. This also makes poisoning Spinegaunts with preferred enemy quite scary considering they're free meat shields. Double the attacks as before, and now also re-rolling the wound rolls.

Triarch Praetorians just keep getting better and better! Extra attack from the assault weapon and an extra attack when charging at I10 because of the jump packs. At 3 attacks a piece (4 on the charge) they're a lot better than now, despite the point cost

If that rumour turns out true then that may have been the point, as the cost of pretorians now is far too high for they do, but these buffs make them worth that cost.

hotsauceman1 wrote:Move, Assault, Then Shoot? Is that true?
If so its absolutely stupid.

It's how the game used to work. Not stupid, just different, and requires a little more thought on how you focus your forces as units don't get to shoot and assault in the same turn.

If that rumour turns out true then that may have been the point, as the cost of pretorians now is far too high for they do, but these buffs make them worth that cost.

The final rumour that the Triarch Praetorians need to become viable is the one that jump infantry are either harder to hit or have some sort of invulnerable save versus shooting. Then they're S5 T5 Wraiths with power weapons but only one wound. Wraiths are still probably better since they also get the new jump infantry bonus attack, but someone could try a list with max Praetorians and max Wraiths for giggles at higher points limits.

I haven't heard any rumours about how transports work and how durable vehicles are overall but it seems that jump infantry is being pushed quite hard. All GW needs to do is to make transports death traps again and the pendulum has swung.

hotsauceman1 wrote:Move, Assault, Then Shoot? Is that true?
If so its absolutely stupid.

And it is absolutely how the game use to work back in the day.

But i just read this. That rabid fire weapons are still going to have their assaulting restrictions. Unless it work a weird way this contradicts that.
Oh well, i rarely assault anyway.

I like me some rabid fire weapons

Bomb squigs away!

Dantalian wrote:

hotsauceman1 wrote:Move, Assault, Then Shoot? Is that true?
If so its absolutely stupid.

And it is absolutely how the game use to work back in the day.

Indeed, gonna be interesting if true.

It actually helps me. No meltas then assault the guys inside the vehicle.
But im upset that you can capture and objectivee while inside a vehicle.

hotsauceman1 wrote:Move, Assault, Then Shoot? Is that true?
If so its absolutely stupid.

As a Chaos Daemon player I am thrilled if this is a real change.

Move assault shoot will be great. Gives melee the nerf it needs.

Not so much melee nerf but one to assault weapons. Getting 40 shoota attacks followed up by 60 close combat attacks is painful.

Hmm, I didnt see this mentionned but this turn order, what is it going to do to tau's JSJ ? Will they get a special move after shooting or... ? I guess we wont really know until we get the rulebook but w/e. I dont remember if the "leaked" rulebook said anything about that.

Since jetpack movement is detailed in the BRB I suspect 6th will describe it properly in relation to the turn phase order.

However we have heard both that assault/shooting phases are switching AND staying as now- its really unknown but I'm sure the batrep in this months white dwarf will confirm it.

hotsauceman1 wrote:But im upset that you can capture and objectivee while inside a vehicle.

You can do that now...

kirsanth wrote:So if there are no longer a random number of turns, then invincible Deathleaper just got. . .buffed?



King of objective games.

I think it's highly likely that objectives will be scored turn-by-turn. That was how it worked in pancake, which also did away with random game length.


I'm amazed that we're this close to release and our info is this sketchy and even contradictory. More and more I'm beginning to think random charge length is there in some form. I can imagine the studio adding it as a counterbalance to pancake-style deep strike assaults and outflanks, which were definitely powerful. Not sure that I agree with the approach, but maybe I can see their thinking now, which I couldn't do before.

Therion wrote:

If that rumour turns out true then that may have been the point, as the cost of pretorians now is far too high for they do, but these buffs make them worth that cost.

The final rumour that the Triarch Praetorians need to become viable is the one that jump infantry are either harder to hit or have some sort of invulnerable save versus shooting. Then they're S5 T5 Wraiths with power weapons but only one wound. Wraiths are still probably better since they also get the new jump infantry bonus attack, but someone could try a list with max Praetorians and max Wraiths for giggles at higher points limits.

I haven't heard any rumours about how transports work and how durable vehicles are overall but it seems that jump infantry is being pushed quite hard. All GW needs to do is to make transports death traps again and the pendulum has swung.

For what it's worth, Praetorians do have Reanimation Protocols, which Wraiths lack. The buffs to jump infantry may not be enough to make these guys competitive stars, but they'll at least make them much more worth the cost when you are playing just for fun.

Dantalian wrote:

hotsauceman1 wrote:Move, Assault, Then Shoot? Is that true?
If so its absolutely stupid.

And it is absolutely how the game use to work back in the day.

Not quite.

The Close Combat Phase still took place after the Shooting Phase. The major difference is that a charge was a type of movement, and therefore it was declared (and moved) during the Movement Phase. In fact charges and compulsory moves (out of control vehicles and the like) were the first things you did during a turn before you moved any other units.

How much this changes the game depends on whether the procedure changes to:

1. Move.
2. Charge & Resolve Assaults.
3. Shoot.

– OR –

1. Move.
2. Charge.
3. Shoot.
4. Resolve Assaults.