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 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
I think they just announced the project too early. Obviously the lockdown likely affected their timelines, but I can't imagine people are staying incredibly hyped and focused on this project based on the slow drip of reveals about it.

Wasn't the announcement largely a response to people being really mad about AoS?

Kind of? It was a long time after, most of the anger had generally dissipated tbh.

Then again, GW are supposed to be putting out some kind of new policy on fan films next week, months after everyone stopped caring.

It was more in response to Kings of Wars new edition, 9th Age and other "its not warhammer but its trying to be" games that were, at the time, on the rise.

So it was less about people being salty about AoS and more to do with games that were rising in the market that were copy-catting the Old World system.



I figure its part of the reason we have Bloodbowl and such right now. GW today realises that even if a game from them isn't making top profit, it is at the very least keeping more customers coming to them. Someone who sticks around for Bloodbowl is now getting all the GW marketing for core games as well and is more likely to stick with them. Meanwhile if people are branching out from GW for Kings of War or other games then there's more chance of GW losing them as customers in the long term. Or at the least having to "share" that customers income with another brand in the same market.


So I think GW today is more aware of that and thus more keen to find specialist games to keep their library more open and diverse. I think they've stopped comparing everything to Marine Sales figures and considering things a failed investment if they don't profit as much.

Wasn’t the announcement made right when KoW 3rd edition dropped? It seems like they announced TOW then so potential customers would not have become invested in a competitor’s product by the time TOW launched.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Wasn't the announcement largely a response to people being really mad about AoS?

It happened on the same day as the a new kings of war edition release, so at the time people thought it was a dig at them.

The anger at age of sigmar started long, long before they announced the Old World project.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Wasn’t the announcement made right when KoW 3rd edition dropped? It seems like they announced TOW then so potential customers would not have become invested in a competitor’s product by the time TOW launched.

Release date of KoW 3rd was October 2019, TOW first article I believe was November 2019, after a cursory google search.

That timeframe does raise an eyebrow to those conspiracy minded, but I think it was coincidental.

I just can't picture someone who plays KoW or is considering playing in 3rd edition to abandon their plans because a game was announced that won't be coming for 3+ years.

No but chances are people who have fond memories of Old World who are only playing Kings of War because they'd rather play Old World might not invest as heavily into other games if "GW is bringing it back" even if its in many years.

I think it has something to do with their IP too right and not abandoning it? I’m not well versed in UK law and by no means a legal expert just what I heard.

as people will say that "not directly after a there were months in between"

it was between KoW 3rd and Uncharted Empires

and yes, it was GW's response on people wandering off as the realized that just because people were not interested in their version of R&F games, did not mean they are not interested at all

I still think that they had nothing in the first year but just wanted people to stay within the GW bubble




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 nathan2004 wrote:
I think it has something to do with their IP too right and not abandoning it? I’m not well versed in UK law and by no means a legal expert just what I heard.

no, not the IP but trademarks
yet there is no need for a game to keep them, just doing anything

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
I think they just announced the project too early. Obviously the lockdown likely affected their timelines, but I can't imagine people are staying incredibly hyped and focused on this project based on the slow drip of reveals about it.

Wasn't the announcement largely a response to people being really mad about AoS?

No, it was a response to Mantic filling the regimental tabletop void and GW realizing they left money on the table.

I suspect there were multiple factors involved rather than GW being triggered by the actions of one company or community project.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
I think they just announced the project too early. Obviously the lockdown likely affected their timelines, but I can't imagine people are staying incredibly hyped and focused on this project based on the slow drip of reveals about it.

Wasn't the announcement largely a response to people being really mad about AoS?

Nah, it was really more because the Sisters hype cycle ended and they wanted to continue doing a series of articles showcasing the development process of a product. I think they underestimated how much content they would actually generate from the process to show us that early on in the development process and thus we've received like one update a quarter (if that) as a result.

I figure its part of the reason we have Bloodbowl and such right now. GW today realises that even if a game from them isn't making top profit, it is at the very least keeping more customers coming to them. Someone who sticks around for Bloodbowl is now getting all the GW marketing for core games as well and is more likely to stick with them. Meanwhile if people are branching out from GW for Kings of War or other games then there's more chance of GW losing them as customers in the long term. Or at the least having to "share" that customers income with another brand in the same market.

OR, GW has recognized that most of their sales revenue comes from new product releases rather than revolving stock of established product and thus increasing the volume of new releases is a surefire way to grow top line revenue. There are logistical and product lifecycle management challenges associated with cramming all that content into 1 or 2 big product lines (40k/AoS), thus diversifying the product lines into different scales (Titanicus/Aeronautica), settings (Horus Heresy, The Old World, Lord of the Rings, Warcry, Necromunda), and genres (Blood Bowl, Warhammer Quest, Underworlds, Kill Team, etc.) allows GW to diversify its product offerings and grow its release volume without overloading or diluting its primary brands with too much content. Not everything is a out "competitors", which people grossly overestimate the size and scale of - its a very significant and meaningful gap (and yes, I do have first and secondhand data on several of GWs "competitors" yearly revenues). It would be like saying Walmart is worried about what Bobs Little Family Store is doing and making business decisions to outcompete them - thats absolutely not whats happening, Walmart is making its decisions based on whats best for Walmart and not much else, the side effect of that is that Bobs is going to get crushed because whats good for Walmart is generally bad for Bobs.

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Wasn't the announcement largely a response to people being really mad about AoS?

It happened on the same day as the a new kings of war edition release, so at the time people thought it was a dig at them.

No, no it didn't. Stop spreading these falsehoods. The Old World was announced in mid-November. The Kings of War 3rd Edition was on shelves and in peoples hands by mid-late October. There were people here locally that had been playing 3rd ed for several weeks before GWs announcement.

Walmart famously goes after mom and pop stores by undercutting them on prices until they go out of business.

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Wasn't the announcement largely a response to people being really mad about AoS?

It happened on the same day as the a new kings of war edition release, so at the time people thought it was a dig at them.

I've seen this said quite a few times now, and while I don't know anything about the game - Wikipedia says the 3rd edition released in October 2019. The Announcement for TOW was 15th November 2019. Am I missing something?

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Wasn't the announcement largely a response to people being really mad about AoS?

It happened on the same day as the a new kings of war edition release, so at the time people thought it was a dig at them.

I've seen this said quite a few times now, and while I don't know anything about the game - Wikipedia says the 3rd edition released in October 2019. The Announcement for TOW was 15th November 2019. Am I missing something?

It is a high holy crusade for the underdog (when no one else thinks there is a fight going on, not even really Mantic themselves). The only thing that really plays into it is that Mantic did some tongue in cheek 'our-prices-aren't-rising' videos after GW annual price rise announcements for a couple years. Some of the Mantic fanbase took that as open season for an antagonistic relationship that doesn't exist.

Voss wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Wasn't the announcement largely a response to people being really mad about AoS?

It happened on the same day as the a new kings of war edition release, so at the time people thought it was a dig at them.

I've seen this said quite a few times now, and while I don't know anything about the game - Wikipedia says the 3rd edition released in October 2019. The Announcement for TOW was 15th November 2019. Am I missing something?

It is a high holy crusade for the underdog (when no one else thinks there is a fight going on, not even really Mantic themselves). The only thing that really plays into it is that Mantic did some tongue in cheek 'our-prices-aren't-rising' videos after GW annual price rise announcements for a couple years. Some of the Mantic fanbase took that as open season for an antagonistic relationship that doesn't exist.

There was also the "you don't need to wait for square bases" video released on like Nov 15/16 2019. Honestly that/the community response was what made me divest of the Mantic community.

Rihgu wrote:

Voss wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Wasn't the announcement largely a response to people being really mad about AoS?

It happened on the same day as the a new kings of war edition release, so at the time people thought it was a dig at them.

I've seen this said quite a few times now, and while I don't know anything about the game - Wikipedia says the 3rd edition released in October 2019. The Announcement for TOW was 15th November 2019. Am I missing something?

It is a high holy crusade for the underdog (when no one else thinks there is a fight going on, not even really Mantic themselves). The only thing that really plays into it is that Mantic did some tongue in cheek 'our-prices-aren't-rising' videos after GW annual price rise announcements for a couple years. Some of the Mantic fanbase took that as open season for an antagonistic relationship that doesn't exist.

There was also the "you don't need to wait for square bases" video released on like Nov 15/16 2019. Honestly that/the community response was what made me divest of the Mantic community.

They also spoofed the Stormcast statue that replaced the iconic Space Marine. I remember a twitter comment that said "Yep, that's a Mantic sculpt" in reference to the "statue" that they put out(photoshopped) in front of their HQ. None of their attempts at humor really slap and always seem kind of sad or backfire, now that I think about it.

The Space Marine is still outside of WHW, by the way.

chaos0xomega wrote:
No, no it didn't. Stop spreading these falsehoods. The Old World was announced in mid-November. The Kings of War 3rd Edition was on shelves and in peoples hands by mid-late October. There were people here locally that had been playing 3rd ed for several weeks before GWs announcement.

I was wrong on the dates. I was remembering the Mantic community being upset about the announcement at the time and should not have made a statement claiming a precise date. That was my mistake.

Spreading falsehoods is a bit strong though. I have no agenda here. I've never played Kings of War and I'm not very pro-GW these days. I'm tentatively curious to see how the Old World turns out, but I'm pretty skeptical of GW's current business model.

The date often gets remembered wrong because, as said above, it was between the two new 3rd Edition books

and the video from Mantic was not "you don't need square bases" but "you don't need to wait for GW to play R&F Fantasy games"

and they have a point as someone doing nothing for years until GW finally release something instead of having fun with what is already availabe

 kodos wrote:
and they have a point as someone doing nothing for years until GW finally release something instead of having fun with what is already availabe

I think the issue is often on availability of the local community. Eons ago when I first started playing WFB in 5th edition, the local community was really established. We had some really solid local campaigns and it was a blast. Over time, it all petered out and by 8th edition, it was on deaths door.

The issue with less popular games, kings of war in this case, is they tend not to have that community by nature of their being non-mainstream. I see people on instagram who have local communities that still actively play 6th edition WFB and it makes me jealous. But short of moving to Europe, I'm not sure what the alternative is.

Short Spotlight of Fiends of Slaanesh

So good of slaanesh to provide nipple pasties for their fiends.

 jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
So good of slaanesh to provide nipple pasties for their fiends.

Tantilise and lure....

Gives CA an excuse to not only do another "Blood DLC" but a "Nipple DLC".

I like the animations. Now, I'm happy with the models we have, but keeping low to the ground while advancing and getting a scorpion like appearance is a neat idea. Totally unfeasible as actually models of course. More so in a rank and file game. But cool to see nonetheless.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Gives CA an excuse to not only do another "Blood DLC" but a "Nipple DLC".

Nipples for the Nipple God!

 Mr Morden wrote:
Tantilise and lure....

That's the funny thing about Slaanesh; the chaos god of desire never seems to understand that just putting boobs on demons with cow's heads, seahorse bodies, and or crab claws won't make them tantalizing or alluring.

I wish I could've been a fly on the wall when they were coming up with this stuff. Who said "I think bare breasts are soooo sensual, especially on crabs and seahorses," and who said, "That's brilliant! Let's go with that!"

“Mr Diaz, you’ve been different since that year-long frat hazing.”

Dunno chief, Crabs are the ultimate lifeform, pretty sexy IMO

It’s not supposed to be sensual, it’s supposed to be perverse.