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Fateweaver wrote:I'd rather win combat. Gaunts don't have staying power and so can't get caught in a protracted combat or they won't hold thusly playing right into the Marine players hands.

If you win combat, the Marines can just use Combat Tactics to fall back and then shoot you. You want to either kill the entire unit at once or else lose/draw combat to tie them up until your heavy hitters arrive.

I've never understood how people rely so heavily on combat tactics.

For example, someone stating if they get tied up by the Mawloc/Trygon/Tyrant they'll 'just combat tactics away'. Well, no you likely won't. Against similar ini combat tactics work less than 50% of the time, against higher ini almost never. Tyrant = Ini 5, Mawloc/Trygon = Ini 4. Then, even if you get lucky and do fall back, they'll consolidate up to make you fall back again at the start of your turn...likely taking you out of rapid fire/melta range.

Most times, combat tactics just makes people nervous about shooting you before they assault.

The shooting doesn't necessarily come from the unit that was assaulted. You can't take this sort of thing in a vacuum. In a unit on unit comparison, Combat Tactics seems quite poor, but when applied over the course of an actual battle, it becomes extremely powerful. Also remember that Marines who get caught take No Retreat wounds, which is a further aid to Combat Tactics escapes. Fortunately, Combat Tactics can be countered. You basically don't want to give the opponent a chance to escape, ever. You want to tie them up, then bring in the heavy hitters to finish them off.

The trick to using Combat Tactics is to use another unit, particularly a Dreadnought since they don't suffer from No Retreat!, to lock the antagonist and prevent a Sweeping Advance on the part of the other unit. That way you can use Combat Tactics to duck out of combat, either making space for counter-assault units or for your own firepower if the locking unit doesn't survive.

Fetterkey wrote:The shooting doesn't necessarily come from the unit that was assaulted. You can't take this sort of thing in a vacuum. In a unit on unit comparison, Combat Tactics seems quite poor, but when applied over the course of an actual battle, it becomes extremely powerful. Also remember that Marines who get caught take No Retreat wounds, which is a further aid to Combat Tactics escapes. Fortunately, Combat Tactics can be countered. You basically don't want to give the opponent a chance to escape, ever. You want to tie them up, then bring in the heavy hitters to finish them off.

Well..if combat tactics fails (which it more often than not does)...nobody can shoot the enemy .

Nurglitch wrote:The trick to using Combat Tactics is to use another unit, particularly a Dreadnought since they don't suffer from No Retreat!, to lock the antagonist and prevent a Sweeping Advance on the part of the other unit. That way you can use Combat Tactics to duck out of combat, either making space for counter-assault units or for your own firepower if the locking unit doesn't survive.

Pretty extremely situational...where you're in combat with a tac squad/dread...against something you want to combat tactics away from...but you're not scared of throwing a dread at?

Anyways, we are derailing the thread and I take responsibility due to my initial comment no combat tactics. We should start a convo in the 40k Discussion forum.

AgeOfEgos wrote:
Anyways, we are derailing the thread and I take responsibility due to my initial comment no combat tactics. We should start a convo in the 40k Discussion forum.

Good idea, done. Here's the link.

Warning: Aduro's attempting Math.

Alright, Toxigaunts vs Toxigaunts with Adrenal Glands, at an 80 point value for even numbered units.

10 Toxigaunts
30 Atttacks on the charge
18 Hit with Scytal's rerolling the 1's
9 Wound
3 Marines fail their saves and die.

8 Toxigaunts with Adrenals
24 Attacks on the charge
14 Hit with Scytal's rerolling the 1's
10.5 Wound with the rerolls granted from Adrenal's higher Str.
3.5 Marines fail their saves and die.

I don't think Adrenal's are worth it, at least not for MEQ killing. You barely kill any more guys, but you're losing numbers in the unit. Now, if you Are fighting Eldar, or need to assault a tank to Glance the rear armor, it'd be useful then. I think I'd rather have the extra bodies myself however.

So Hormis have Sycthing Talons confirmed? I hadn't seen anything posted here about that. If so...Hell yea

Darkness wrote:So Hormis have Sycthing Talons confirmed? I hadn't seen anything posted here about that. If so...Hell yea

Yes, they do. They can also get adrenal glands and toxin sacs for 2 points per model each. With move through cover and their special rule for choosing the highest of 3d6 when running they're comparably quick to what they used to be, though they still get edged out averagely by about 3 inches if they perform a third turn assault. Still, not bad for almost half their original cost.

Hormies have always had scyth tals....why wouldn't they have them now?

It's how they got +1 attack in the current codex.

AgeOfEgos wrote:Damn that's strong. Str. 6 AP 2 orbital templates that repeat every other turn, only scatter 1d6...and it has wounds/nasty profile too ^^.

Well, Hive Guard to blow up Rhinos, Mawlocs to eat the chewy centers with blast templates every other turn.

Deep Strike still scatters 2D6".

Fateweaver wrote:Yeah, the auto-in next turn is nice. Start on board, turn 2 burrow up under a unit, go back in turn 3 if not locked in combat, repeat on turn 4 (and 6 if it goes past 5).

S6 against the back of most vehicle will mess them up as well.

The Mawloc has Hit and Run, so you have a good chance of getting away at the end of your opponents assault phase if you are locked in combat.

Darkness wrote:So Hormis have Sycthing Talons confirmed? I hadn't seen anything posted here about that. If so...Hell yea

They have 1 pair, so they get to reroll 1's to hit, not all failed hits.

It's looking more and more like my Tyranids will be primarily a close combat force, with lots of psychic powers to tenderize the meat.

Hey,

does anyone here got the englisch dex?
I got the german dex and i think there is a problem with the sword/ lash combo. These are two cc weapons, but the rules dont allow you to combine the effects of two different weapons...
I wonder if it is clearer in the english dex...

I'm pretty sure I will be getting the new codex next week at some point. I know I have mentioned this before in other threads (like every week for the last 3 weeks), but I have finally got the store owner's solemn promise.

If no-one else replies before then, I can give you a definate answer.


Back to what Warpcrafter mentioned though. I for 1 welcome the change. For too long nids have had better firepower than close combat ability. Doesn't really fit with the fluff. Now not only are we getting a load of ultra killy cc units, but we also have ways to manage uber units (nob bikers, harlequins with eldrad in a serpent etc) by reducing all manner of characteristics. Great fun is going to be had.

What are the rules regarding the appearance of other Tyranids from a Trygon hole?

Darth Bob wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Remember folks, unless the centre of the template hits the Tank, that'll be a S3, not a S6 hit....

This was just talked about a page or two back. I personally have resolved that because it does not explicitly describe it as a blast weapon, then it does not follow that rule (which would entail that it is, in fact, a blast weapon).

Ah fair enough. Certainly precedence for this sort of thing in the big missile thingy for the Guard whose name escapes me at the moment. Deathstrike, that's the one!

Oldoneeye wrote:What are the rules regarding the appearance of other Tyranids from a Trygon hole?

Do you mean appearance as in "Enemies just appeared over there!" or physical appearance as in "His appearance is very sloppy."

Assuming you mean the first, it pretty much acts as a way for Tyranids to deepstrike without fear of scatter, that's about it. Assuming it's the second, the Tyranids don't look any different.

Its fairly useless. It's one unit from reserve and can only show up on the following turn. Also, the hole can be blocked by enemies. Also, the arriving unit may not assault.

In other news, does anyone else notice that Nids are really bad in Apoc now? With the loss of EW, those lovely Carnifex formation are one pie plate from splat, same with just about everything in the army.

That may be true, but our gargantuan creatures are still cheaper than they should be and we are forced into taking swarms instead of a handful of MC's. I think it balances out reasonably well. Combined with a few strategic assets and formations we should still be ok.

Darth Bob wrote:In other news, does anyone else notice that Nids are really bad in Apoc now? With the loss of EW, those lovely Carnifex formation are one pie plate from splat, same with just about everything in the army.

Not that terrible. After all, Synpase made little sense before against SD Weapons. It would take at least 4 shots to knacker a Carnifex, whereas a Heirodule could be obliterated in two.

Anyone have confirmation or denial on this rumour:

The Zoanthrope Special Character has a special ability all units within 6 inches have to take a leadership test on 3d6 what they lose by is how many wounds the unit takes with no armour saves allowed.


Seems rather unbalanced.

Hollismason wrote:Anyone have confirmation or denial on this rumour:

The Zoanthrope Special Character has a special ability all units within 6 inches have to take a leadership test on 3d6 what they lose by is how many wounds the unit takes with no armour saves allowed.


Seems rather unbalanced.

I'm pretty sure that confirmed, and he also absorbs those wounds onto himself. Although at T4 he's just one lucky ML shot away from instant death.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Darth Bob wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Remember folks, unless the centre of the template hits the Tank, that'll be a S3, not a S6 hit....

This was just talked about a page or two back. I personally have resolved that because it does not explicitly describe it as a blast weapon, then it does not follow that rule (which would entail that it is, in fact, a blast weapon).

Ah fair enough. Certainly precedence for this sort of thing in the big missile thingy for the Guard whose name escapes me at the moment.

Its only precedence of a special exclusion of 'centre of blast' for a specific blast weapon. Doesn't really relate much to the Mawloc's absence of exclusion in the absence of being described as a blast weapon in the first place!

Hive2003 wrote:Hey,

does anyone here got the englisch dex?
I got the german dex and i think there is a problem with the sword/ lash combo. These are two cc weapons, but the rules dont allow you to combine the effects of two different weapons...
I wonder if it is clearer in the english dex...

What rule would disallow it? I don't see one anywhere in the German codex. The only thing I see mentioned is the little bit on page 33 that mentions you don't get any bonus attacks for having multiple close combat weapons (e.g. a pair of boneswords), as those attacks are already included in the creature's profile.

The core rulebook specifies that normally if you have multiple special weapons you have to pick one; you can't combine effects.

Of course it's entirely possible that the nid dex has a special rule exempting them.

Mannahnin wrote:The core rulebook specifies that normally if you have multiple special weapons you have to pick one; you can't combine effects.

Of course it's entirely possible that the nid dex has a special rule exempting them.

Well the only thing I see that would come close is that the army list introduction page mentions that Tyranids don't carry typical close combat weapons but attack by claw and fang, which is why they don't get any bonus attacks for having multiple weapons.

I would say that the Lashwhip and Bonesword combo is something like the Stormshield and Thunderhammer. It's not like an Assault Terminator has to choose between the invulnerable save and the S8 attack.

That was exactly my thinking as well redemption. It's not an actual weapon, more of a defense.

That was exactly my thinking as well redemption. It's not an actual weapon, more of a defense.

Right, I don't think it is an issue for the lash whips. However there is still a question with Toxin Sacs. I am curious how poison will interact with boneswords -- and more importantly rending and implant attack, since they benefit immensly from a reroll to wound. It seems like they combine but I am not 100% sure.

According to the rules for special close combat weapons, you have to choose one effect or another, so a Warrior with Rending Claws, a pair of Boneswords, and an Implant Attack would have 3 separate options, rather than one all-singing all-dancing chest-bursting attack.