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Aduro wrote:Alright, I think I know what I want my Swarm to look like, and I'm wondering if someone who has a copy of the point values can give me an approximate value of this list as a whole so I know if it's too big or leaves me spare room for more toys. No individual breakdowns, and rounded to the nearest 100, and I'd be quite happy enough with that level of info.

Alpha Warrior with Bone Swords and Deathspitter
Parasite of Malanix (or whatever it's called)

2x Hive Guard
2x Venomthropes
Death Leaper

2x 20 man Termigaunts
2x 20 man Hormagaunts w/ Toxin Sacs
2x Tervigons w/ Crushing Claws, Toxin Sacs and Adrenal Glands

20 man Gargoyles

Tyranofex with the Str 10 gun.

If I were you, I'd find a way to fit Adrenal Glands in with the Hormies. With Furious Charge and Toxin Sacks, they'll be rerolling wounds on MEQ's as well as GEQ's.

@Aduro:
I don't think the list has too many heavy hitters... or not enough to cover the 100 gaunt equivalents running/flying around.

Nah, I'd rather have more attacks and bodies than the rerolling wounds vs Marines on the charge. Plus I already have to shave just to get the stuff I want.

Darth Bob wrote:

Aduro wrote:Alright, I think I know what I want my Swarm to look like, and I'm wondering if someone who has a copy of the point values can give me an approximate value of this list as a whole so I know if it's too big or leaves me spare room for more toys. No individual breakdowns, and rounded to the nearest 100, and I'd be quite happy enough with that level of info.

Alpha Warrior with Bone Swords and Deathspitter
Parasite of Malanix (or whatever it's called)

2x Hive Guard
2x Venomthropes
Death Leaper

2x 20 man Termigaunts
2x 20 man Hormagaunts w/ Toxin Sacs
2x Tervigons w/ Crushing Claws, Toxin Sacs and Adrenal Glands

20 man Gargoyles

Tyranofex with the Str 10 gun.

If I were you, I'd find a way to fit Adrenal Glands in with the Hormies. With Furious Charge and Toxin Sacks, they'll be rerolling wounds on MEQ's as well as GEQ's.

Yeah, by my math 20 hormagaunts will inflict 25 wounds on MEQ's. That's 8 dead marines before the marines get to fight back. That's if the gaunts charge and have both sacs and glands. Granted it'll be hard to get one full brood of 20 alive but that's the point of running 2 or more broods.

What's the math on 20 of em without Glands, just Toxin?

3.5 dead marines (so between 3 and 4 dead marines).

So the S4 on the charge makes them way more killy (and lets them strike first against Eldar Aspect squads, in which case you'll wipe them out before they even get to swing, even Scorps with their 3+ save have to fear gland/sac gaunts).

Does vicious mind allow any unit or any troop choice to outflank? I've heard both.

I don't really play tyranids but the idea of a Deepstriking outflanking Tyranid army able to all come in on Turn 2 is kind of intimidating.

Mawlocs , Deathleapers, Winged Tyrants etc is certainly some really great combos in the codex just from the rumours.

Wait, what? How does rerolling failed wounds More than Double the number of dead Marines?

ONE Troop unit (gaunts, gants, rippers, stealers or warriors) may outflank and you get to reroll for board edge.

9 Warriors with an Alpha leading them all armed with Deathspitters would be a very annoying or even scary outflanking squad. It would take 4 turns for a HB Dev squad to kill those Warriors and those warriors will most likely be in the face of that squad before then.

Sure if 1/3rd or 1/2 the Marine army shoots at it it'll die before 4 turns but that is 1/3rd to 1/2 the marine army not shooting at the rest of the nid army.

Hollismason wrote:Does vicious mind allow any unit or any troop choice to outflank? I've heard both.

I don't really play tyranids but the idea of a Deepstriking outflanking Tyranid army able to all come in on Turn 2 is kind of intimidating.

Mawlocs , Deathleapers, Winged Tyrants etc is certainly some really great combos in the codex just from the rumours.

Vicious Mind allows one (1) Troop choice to outflank. Winged Tyrants are expensive though, they're nearing Landraider costs before you add on any other biomorphs, weapons or rules. They cannot get Warp Field this time arround, and while they techinically can get a unit of Tyrant Guard this time around, that'll obviously slow it down.

Okay, you lost me again, what the hell does rubber hawk mean?

Aduro wrote:Wait, what? How does rerolling failed wounds More than Double the number of dead Marines?

It's +1 S and reroll to Wound, so you're going from a 33% chance to wound to a 75% chance to wound.

Fateweaver wrote:9 Warriors with an Alpha leading them all armed with Deathspitters would be a very annoying or even scary outflanking squad. It would take 4 turns for a HB Dev squad to kill those Warriors and those warriors will most likely be in the face of that squad before then.

Sure if 1/3rd or 1/2 the Marine army shoots at it it'll die before 4 turns but that is 1/3rd to 1/2 the marine army not shooting at the rest of the nid army.

Of course, that's also a 400+ point unit that with a little bad luck may be out of range or in reserves half the game, doing nothing but tieing up points.

Without gland you are wounding the marines on 4's with no chance to reroll...with the gland you are wounding on 4's rerolling.

20 Gaunts w/out Glands charging: 60 attacks, 30 hits, 33 with rerolls (mathematically 5 1's so another 3 hits rounded up), 16.5 wounds, 5.4 dead marines.

20 Gaunts w/Glands charging: 60 attacks, 33 hits after rerolling 1's, 24.75 wounds after rerolls = 8 dead marines.

So yeah, math was a little off so the margin of kills isn't as large but it's 2 dead marines swinging back vs 4.6 dead marines swinging back resulting in a larger break modifier for the marines (or an even possible draw for the marines if the sarge is alive and happens to have a fist or power weapon (which is not unheard of in a tactical squad)).

It also is beneficial against units of I5 as you are going at I6 (most eldar aspects will now go after you so long as you get the charge).

The glands will not come into play if the gaunts don't get the charge but will be almost twice as killy if they do get the charge (and could even take down most marine IC's) before the IC's get to swing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well, I plan to run a Deathleaper and a brood of Lictor twins. That is +2 to reserves if the lictors and DL make it on in turn 2. I will be giving my Tyrant the plus 1 to reserves ability so 3+ on turn 2 my lictor pals come in meaning if lictor and leaper show up anything else I hold in reserve is auto-on on turn 3.

I'm not saying that 9 warriors with an alpha is the best unit but in larger games (our norm is 2500 in my circle) that 400pts isn't that detrimental.

At 1850 it's prohibitive but I find that at 1850 the nid list has shrunk a little bit but gotten more powerful (at least on paper).

Having the Lictor or Deathleaper just adds +1 to reserve from what I understand nothing about it having to be on board to give the +1 meaning it gives itself a +1 even without a hive tyrant.


You can outflank Tervigons w/ Crushing Claws that then spit out 3d6 gaunts as gaunts make them a troop choice.

I'm reading from translation so I hope you are right. I don't know German that well and don't trust translators but the translated one says that the Lictor must be on the board at the start of the turn to use it, aka teleport homer/locater beacon.

Would be a lot more useful if it's like the advisor one for IG where he just has to be in your army and alive.

Fateweaver wrote:I'm reading from translation so I hope you are right. I don't know German that well and don't trust translators but the translated one says that the Lictor must be on the board at the start of the turn to use it, aka teleport homer/locater beacon.

Would be a lot more useful if it's like the advisor one for IG where he just has to be in your army and alive.

Well, I only have access the German one and it says:

Pheromone Trail:
When at the beginning of the movement phase a Lictor is on the board, the Tyranid player adds +1 to his reserve rolls. In addition, any unit entering by Deep Strike within 6" of a Lictor doesn't have to roll for scatter. This ability may not be used on the turn the Lictor arrived from reserves itself.

I figured a human translator could do it right. I don't trust the online translators.

So, not really all that great unless you want to ensure a 3rd turn reserve roll on by taking at least 2 lictors and hoping they both appear on turn 2.

Well, they are better than current regardless and the DS around them without scatter is nice as well.

Fateweaver wrote:I figured a human translator could do it right. I don't trust the online translators.

So, not really all that great unless you want to ensure a 3rd turn reserve roll on by taking at least 2 lictors and hoping they both appear on turn 2.

Well, they are better than current regardless and the DS around them without scatter is nice as well.

I doubt the +1 to reserves is cummulative, seeing at the IG one isn't. The Hive Tyrant one (Vicious Mind) only requires it to be alive though.

Also, has anyone noticed the new deployment of Spore Mine Clusters? They get to Deepstrike before deployment, after the player sides are determined. Fun to mess with the enemy deployment by dropping a few clusters in their starting zone before they deploy.

Fateweaver wrote:Without gland you are wounding the marines on 4's with no chance to reroll...with the gland you are wounding on 4's rerolling.

20 Gaunts w/out Glands charging: 60 attacks, 30 hits, 33 with rerolls (mathematically 5 1's so another 3 hits rounded up), 16.5 wounds, 5.4 dead marines.

20 Gaunts w/Glands charging: 60 attacks, 33 hits after rerolling 1's, 24.75 wounds after rerolls = 8 dead marines.

So yeah, math was a little off so the margin of kills isn't as large but it's 2 dead marines swinging back vs 4.6 dead marines swinging back resulting in a larger break modifier for the marines (or an even possible draw for the marines if the sarge is alive and happens to have a fist or power weapon (which is not unheard of in a tactical squad)).

You *want* to draw combat against Marines. I don't think the glands are worthwhile.

I'd rather win combat. Gaunts don't have staying power and so can't get caught in a protracted combat or they won't hold thusly playing right into the Marine players hands.

The sacs are my first choice but with points to spare I'd give them glands. Great against high I units and S4 means they are a threat to most transports/light walkers (enough weapon destroyed/immobilized results will wreck an Ar10 vehicle/walker).

Redemption wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:I've searched for this and I don't understand the translation.

Can someone explain exactly how the Mawloc deep strikes? Here's what I understand;

Put a die on the table to represent entry, must be 1" away from enemy per normal DS
Roll scatter
After position is determined, place a large blast----suffer a Str. 6 AP2 hit, armor hit on rear
Push models out of the way and place big bad dude.

This right?

It's basically:
- Place a Large Blast marker where you want the Mawloc to enter.
- Roll for scatter.
- Units under the marker suffer a S6 AP2 hit, vehicles are hit on their rear.
- Resolve casualties.
- Place the Mawloc and move any remaining models the minimum distance required to clear the marker in a legal formation and avoiding impassable terrain. Models that were locked in combat at the moment must attempt to remain in base contact with the unit they were in close combat in. Models may not be moved within 1" of other units (besides the one they were locked in combat with). Vehicles, even immobilised ones, remain in their current direction but are also moved. Models that can't be moved (e.g., would have to move into base contact with an enemy model) are destoyed.

Normal DS rules never mention that you need to be 1" away from enemies. It's just advisable because if you don't scatter you'd have to roll on the misshap table. The Mawloc, however, doesn't roll on the mishap table, so it seems you can just deepstrike in the middle of an enemy unit, your own unit, units locked in combat, etc. to your hearts content.

Damn that's strong. Str. 6 AP 2 orbital templates that repeat every other turn, only scatter 1d6...and it has wounds/nasty profile too ^^.

Well, Hive Guard to blow up Rhinos, Mawlocs to eat the chewy centers with blast templates every other turn.

Yeah, the auto-in next turn is nice. Start on board, turn 2 burrow up under a unit, go back in turn 3 if not locked in combat, repeat on turn 4 (and 6 if it goes past 5).

S6 against the back of most vehicle will mess them up as well.

Well all in all EVERYTHING looks a bit overpower compared to normal.

But of course thats not a bad thing!

Remember folks, unless the centre of the template hits the Tank, that'll be a S3, not a S6 hit....

True but I don't think most will use it to snipe tanks. It will just be convenient when it does.

Haha you can destroy stuff pretty easily then with Gargoyles and Mawlocs.

Actually thats kind of broken O_o.

Think about it this way the Mawloc "template" as a circular vehicle. Models have to be moved out of. Its the same basic principle of killing transported units that are inside transports by surrounding the vehicle.

Except now you can do it to Landraiders/ Monoliths/ Battlewagons/ Squads of Vehicles.

Yeah thats slowed.

Except if it scatters (2/3 chance) and hits your own gargoyles (Very Likely).

Remember folks, unless the centre of the template hits the Tank, that'll be a S3, not a S6 hit....

Certainly arguable -- but the rule you are using to come to that conclusion is when blast weapons are shot at vehicles. This is not a blast weapon, nor a shooting attack, is not even resolved in the shooting phase and its rules specificaly state everything under the template take S6 hits.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Remember folks, unless the centre of the template hits the Tank, that'll be a S3, not a S6 hit....

This was just talked about a page or two back. I personally have resolved that because it does not explicitly describe it as a blast weapon, then it does not follow that rule (which would entail that it is, in fact, a blast weapon).

Its still rather amusing.