Genestealer Game 4: 40k Leagues Under the Sea

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**Thor665**

Weekends often are.

What are your thoughts about ferret and his vote shift at the end of day yesterday? Do you think there's any chance ferret is scumbuddies with shas? Depending on your answer there you should have an opinion about my own vote on ferret.

**Fifty**

Ferret is one of the people I was getting a very bad scum vibe from at the end of the previous day, but I didn't want to mention then as he was clearly not going to get lynched, and I think I am best off alive rather than dead during the night phase. Ferret just seemed too desperate for a lynch on one or other of Dark_O and Shas... That could be town or 'stealer thinking, but is more of a scum-tell than most people were posting.

Therefore, I don't think Shas and Ferret are working together. Ferret had his vote on Shas too long at lynch -1 for that, I think.

I would not be surprised at a DDRE/Ferret alliance, but personally I have not been picking up buddy-vibes from them the way you have, just getting scum vibes from both of them. I do seem to recall some evidence you picked out about them being a team early on, but I can't remember it properly - am I right, and if so, can you repost it?

After all the effort I put in to convincing myself that Shas is scum, it seems a shame to have to unconvince myself. However, maybe he is just not very useful and Ferret is actually a better bet.

So far we have not struck lucky, and I think we need to find a 'stealer very soon, or we will be in super-trouble. I am strong for either Shas [i]or/i] Ferret, but I am not sure which yet.

**Thor665**

As far as DDRE goes, I think I was only ever connecting him with Drk_O because of that weird comment near the end of Day 1 where he said he thought Drk_O was scum and voted someone else. I'll agree that I still have bad vibes from DDRE but I think it's just that he seems to be going after 'safe' lynch targets. I mean, pressuring Arhenier - that's a safe bet for scum. The problem is I agree with his case on Arheiner so it's hard to clarify for myself if I think DDRE is scummy because of that.

Don't let yourself get too trapped by pre-conceived notions of who is or isn't scummy, you should always be willing to reassess. I do agree that a ferret/shas team is highly unlikely and I tend to believe ferret's sudden shifting at the end of the day reads more as scum looking to ensure the lynch rather then town trying to lynch someone they think is scummy.

**Deff Dread red Edition**

the_ferrett wrote:
DDRE - What are your thoughts on your voteswitch, given that you performed similar actions to me and have not been noticed for it.

My actions were in no way similar to what you did, IMHO. You seemed to hop on the Drk wagon near the end of the day, when you were at a lose for what to do. I maintained a high level of suspicion for him during the entire time he was with us, and finally voted for him when it was clear no on else would be lynched that day. My suspicions were misplaced, however I believed I was in the right.

Moving along, I'm still every suspicious of Arheiner, he yet again posted on the day our day phase began a new, yet in another thread. Now, perhaps he is simply more invested in the other game, or has much more sinister motives and is trying to hide in the shadows. Either way he is becoming irksome, he almost never posts, contributes little and has generally been strange. Therefore, I must say...

Vote:Arheiner

Also...

Gornall, I must add my voice to that of Thor's, would you mind giving both Shas and Arheiner a prod?

**Fifty**

Eight of us left.

There are only two people I am confident of right now, and one of them is me...

Thor - Very posty, helps drive things forward. If he IS a stealer, then he is doing a damn good job of keeping attention from him and his buddy
DDRE - Odd behaviour towards Dark_O
Fifty - A fine pillar of the Imperial Community, without question

Arheiner - Too quiet by far, but does that make him a useless uninterested townie, or a clever 'stealer who has seen quietness so far keep him unvoted for, and no clues as to his partner given away? I am tempted to support him being lynched, just to see if we can get him talking a bit, like we did for Shas.
BishopGore - Not sad much, but pertinent when he does... A possible "sleeper" to partner a more active 'stealer?
Brother Stynier - Again, not sad much, but not silent either.
Shas O'vera - Little contribution, but since I made the case against him, has done nothing to make that case stronger... The death of Lord Loss could just as easily have been a 'stealer trying to frame him.
Ferret - Moving up the list? Some very odd actions at the end of the previous Day Phase. May have night-killed Shas to make him look guilty, particularly in light of the fact he was voting for Shas for most of the day, so obviously wants him gone...

You know what, in light of the long-term voting for Shas, the switch to Dark_O and the night kill of Lord Loss... I am convinced that there is enough of a case for a Ferret lynch.

Vote: Ferret

**VictorVonTzeentch**

I started out saying alot, after that there wasn't much needing to be said. Right now I am wary of Thor, I just can't shake the feeling that he is trying to bend us all to his whim. Ferret seems odd as well, he goes from timid to attacking in a heart beat.

**the_ferrett**

Why am I not surprised by how Mother's day has rewarded me? At least all you lovely people are doing the right thing and voting. Shame its for me, but once I'm gone nothing much I can do about it.

For those left - note the non-alliances. They're more telling than who is fighting or who is alliancing. You'll also note that this can change depending upon heat levels - for example if someone scummy is voted for, their allies should either become silent or be a 'voice of reason' by voting for the 'obvious scum'.

**VictorVonTzeentch**

And whom are you referring to Ferret? If it is I you speak of, I've voiced concern towards Thor since day two. You are yet again speaking and not doing much else. If you are so concerned vote.

VOTE Thor

I am afraid I don't have much to go on with this, but something isn't sitting well with me.

**Thor665**

So you're saying that if someone is scum, then their partner will either vote for them or not vote for them? ...well...yeah, that's correct.

Does your analysis of the non-alliances actually suggest to you anything about who is scummy?

**the_ferrett**

I'm speaking instead of voting because I'm quite certain my ship is sunk. If I were to vote it would be shas or Thor. Partner possibilities are - Thor/Fifty or Shas/Arheiner or Gore.

**shas'o vera**

may i ask where these so called partnerships have came from? and what made you suspect it couldn't be something like: Shas/Fifty or Gore/Arheiner?

**Thor665**

I would like to second shas' question.

I'll also note that ferret's revelation on non-alliances came after I broached my own belief that he was potentially scummy partners with Arheiner or Fifty based on how little interaction he had with them. Then, suddenly, his other favorite wagon from yesterday (shas) and the guy who voted for him (me) are paired with those two as part of silent alliances.

Yeah, ferret, really explain the potential connections as you see them, my scumdar is pinging like crazy right now.

Edit - changed the italicized name above from Arheiner to shas as it was meant to be.

**Fifty**

Thanks Ferret, that helps me be a lot more sure about my lynch vote on you.

**the_ferrett**

I enjoy this part of any arguament. How I'm asked for 'suspicions' based on 'feelings' to help 'proove' that I might be right..... and then the opposition uses said me answering their questions to twist what I say into "Oh look you're wrong"-isms. It makes me feel.... special. Like what I say actually matters. And if you can't tell I'm trying that sarcasm thing that I never can understand.

As to Shas: My above pairings were givens. On the condition that either Thorr or you were guilty, who would be second. Ironically I was asked to give examples. Look where that got me.

You know Thorr why people shut up in games with you? Because they can't voice an opinion with you jumping at every syntax, every hint of 'oh look he worded that open endedly'. People are allowed to look at the evidence - AND THAT INCLUDES YOUR POSTS - and then make a judgement. We don't live in a vaccuum so stop acting like I'm not allowed to see sense in what you say!

**VictorVonTzeentch**

I've voiced an opinion that is slightly open and he hasn't jumped on me ferrett, I think he's hitting you because;

A) If he is loyal to the throne, you seem rather scummy. Something we all see and he is persecuting you for it.

B) He is one of the Genestealers and he is picking on you because you are a weak link. So he and his partner are picking on you in order make you slip up more and get the rest of us to vote for you.

Or

C) You and he are both genestealers and this is a distraction until someone makes a different vote that everyone can get behind.

**VictorVonTzeentch**

Personally I am leaning towards B or A.

**Thor665**

the_ferrett wrote:As to Shas: My above pairings were givens. On the condition that either Thorr or you were guilty, who would be second. Ironically I was asked to give examples. Look where that got me.

Well, you did open up with a vague accusation (that had Brother Stynier think you were talking about him, for one) then, when asked to clarify you provided the names of the 'non-alliances' you saw. I *specifically* described why I found those non alliances to be suspect considering the timing (seriously, of the four people named two of them just happened to be two people who were now voting you...really?). Please climb off the cross and feel free to blast my reasons for finding it scummy. But simply throwing up your hands and saying 'woe unto me for answering questions' is not a valid defense.

You know Thorr why people shut up in games with you? Because they can't voice an opinion with you jumping at every syntax, every hint of 'oh look he worded that open endedly'. People are allowed to look at the evidence - AND THAT INCLUDES YOUR POSTS - and then make a judgement. We don't live in a vaccuum so stop acting like I'm not allowed to see sense in what you say!

So by this you're saying the logic of you picking Fifty and Arheiner as likely scum was based solely off of me predicting who I felt were the most likely scumbuddies to you? I appreciate the compliment, but will note that my top three scummy players are not exactly lined up with my most likely to be partners with ferret list and they should be treated as different lists with different values to them.

I also disagree that people are any more/less quiet in games with/without me then they otherwise are (except maybe Arheiner)

BrotherStynier wrote:I've voiced an opinion that is slightly open and he hasn't jumped on me ferrett, I think he's hitting you because;

A) If he is loyal to the throne, you seem rather scummy. Something we all see and he is persecuting you for it.

B) He is one of the Genestealers and he is picking on you because you are a weak link. So he and his partner are picking on you in order make you slip up more and get the rest of us to vote for you.

B is flawed unless you seriously believe Fifty is a genestealer with me since I'm pretty sure he's the only other vote on ferret. I could or could not be a Genestealer regardless of Fifty being a Genestealer.

**VictorVonTzeentch**

I believe parts of B to be true, the rest was generalization. More an attempt to get one of these... 'Attacks' as Ferrett calls them.

**Thor665**

Your case on me in A and B then is an equally valid case on Fifty.

You apparently do not believe Fifty is scum.

Why do you feel he and I differ in how we are voting/attacking ferret?

**VictorVonTzeentch**

I don't necessarily feel him to be good, but so far I don't see him being too 'scummy' at least not for the moment. Right now I feel like attacking this one person at a time, though through out the day I'm sure that will change.

You aren't being too different in your attacks on Ferret, but like I said one suspect at a time.

**Thor665**

How exactly are you expecting this attack to ed-ju-ma-cate you about me considering this current conversation was initiated by me? Theoretically if you're attacking me you're trying to get a better read on me, and I don't see how you're trying to do that. What am I missing?

**VictorVonTzeentch**

I was mainly trying to gauge your response. You see, ferret has his heart set on some idea that you push other people into not talking out of fear of some sort of rebuke from you, I wanna see what he's talking about.

I am trying to read you by being more passive. I am curious how ever why you really felt it necessary to kill Drk_O was it like why I wanted him gone? To free us up from pointless discussions? Or did you have something else?

**Thor665**

BrotherStynier wrote:I am curious how ever why you really felt it necessary to kill Drk_O was it like why I wanted him gone? To free us up from pointless discussions? Or did you have something else?

I specifically said why I wanted Drk_O lynched. There was something he said on Day 1 that I called scummy (honestly off the top of my head I don't remember what, and am too lazy to go back and look) I also found his potential association with DDRE over the 'Drk_O is scummy, let's not lynch him' comment to be suspicious and that made me want to lynch one of the pair. I've said all of this before.

**Deff Dread red Edition**

Arheiner yet again posted in the other thread. I ask that some of you help me put pressure on him, because as is I'd like to hear what he has to say. Failing that, and if he doesn't post in a few days, I'll change my vote.

**Fifty**

Can we instead ask Gornall to give Arheiner the boot? He has not posted since the 26th. Whether he is 'stealer or town, I don't particularly want him in the game if that is the interest he shows.

**Deff Dread red Edition**

That was indeed going to be my first suggestion, however I though it might come of a bit too TFG. In all honesty he could just as well be dead, as he isn't contributing.

**Deff Dread red Edition**

After considering it, I'm going to say....

Unvote:Arheiner
Pressuring him doesn't seem to work at all, so I'll rather change my vote.

and

Vote:The_Ferrett

His little,'my goose is cooked,' routine is strange to me. Perhaps the act of a guilty conscience, wanting to atone for his sins as genestealer scum. If it goes to 4 votes however, I'll unvote, we don't need a really short third day were nothing is discussed.

**Fifty**

Why vote for him at all then?

**Deff Dread red Edition**

Because I thought I could pressure him into contributing, if even just a little. Yet, thinking of it now, pressuring him as such is what I've been doing since yesterday. This hasn't achieved overly much and I feel my vote could do better else were. It is also clear that no one was really going to get behind my call to put pressure on him, as we have scummier targets to contend with.

Edited to add a bit.

**Gornall**

Current Vote Count:

1- Thor ..................(Brother Stynier)
0- DDRE
0- Fifty
0- Arheiner
0- BishopGore
0- Brother Stynier
0- Shas O'vera........()
3- Ferret.................(Thor, Fifty, DDRE)

With 8 Alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

I am on a business trip to AL this week and working weird hours, so my prescence will be limited.