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Made in gb
Huge Hierodule






Nottingham (yay!)

You could run Behemoth for MW strat with Hormagaunt horde. Maybe build the list to get the bulk of its ITC VPs early to mitigate clock issues? Not a full fix, as the list becomes one that tanks its opponents’ scores, but doesn’t get the full game’s worth of VPs needed to really climb the ladder. A gatekeeper, not a last boss.

Maybe embrace that and leverage the fact that most opponents will probably not have practiced much using their lists against hordes. It is a format that disincentivises that sort of list, meaning there’s probably going to be fewer anti-horde measures. If you can be the school of piranha that’s swum into a lake where everything’s adapted to fight whales, it could be open season.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/16 03:33:14


   
Made in se
Dakka Veteran





 Nitro Zeus wrote:
He just considered the Warriors as another unit of Stealers. Except unlike Stealers, they get to shoot if they whiff the charge so they still have some impact (and also dirt cheap AG), and then cause of Jorm they get to sit there with a 3+ save and hopefully distract some fire while he gets in with other units.

He was double shooting Biovores vs Knights and vs Custodes, but you could always do it on the Warriors too. Either way they are still DS’ing and charging.

He said he’s dropping some Biovores for OOE. Also don’t consider this list some ironed out game plan, he had a bunch of untested ideas he threw into the list, and also got tabled in his first practice match which contributed to the list name “gak nids” but it was locked in for the event. Luckily for him he played it well and got that 2nd place finish.

He used the Mawloc to bring in the Warriors with the stratagem. Adrenal Glands give them 8" charge. I'm guessing saved a CP re-roll for it.

TBH other than the Mawloc and Warriors, it looks pretty good to me. And even that isn't terrible either, though I'd at least prefer a Trygon over the Mawloc or something that can have an impact, especially since it would let you move away from Jorm (maybe Behemoth for re-rolls on the Warriors).

Jormungandr gives the Mawloc a 2+ save when it pops up, and the deepstrike strat. If you go with Behemoth you'd be forced to give them a Tyrannocyte, which would suck. Mawloc isn't the best taxi though, because it's rare that it can be both with 2" of enemies and have its passengers outside of 9". I'd consider 3 Raveners and save 40pts.
Trygon is nice when it randomly nails the charge, but it's much more expensive than the Mawloc. It does open up for Kraken instead of Jormungandr.

OOE is nice, too bad he costs 4 Biovores.

Rending Claws on the Warriors? I assume it's because he didn't have enough bits around to give them Boneswords, which are much better for the same cost.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 N.I.B. wrote:
Rending Claws on the Warriors? I assume it's because he didn't have enough bits around to give them Boneswords, which are much better for the same cost.


I was thinking the same thing; I've run the math and pretty much the only thing Rending Claws are better against is T8/3+ vehicles, and they're still not very good at it.

Honestly I think our melee weapons need a re-work. They need clearer roles and reasons to choose one over another.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/16 17:18:30


 
   
Made in se
Dakka Veteran





Yup, before Cruddace happened, Tyranids had the unique army wide perk of not getting a bonus attack when equipped with two melee weapons, instead they got the special abilities from both. Now in the name of streamlining they have to chose one weapon, like all other factions.
   
Made in ca
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






Texas

 catbarf wrote:
 N.I.B. wrote:
Rending Claws on the Warriors? I assume it's because he didn't have enough bits around to give them Boneswords, which are much better for the same cost.


I was thinking the same thing; I've run the math and pretty much the only thing Rending Claws are better against is T8/3+ vehicles, and they're still not very good at it.

Honestly I think our melee weapons need a re-work. They need clearer roles and reasons to choose one over another.


This. There's a lot of knights still. Get into CC with them and go to town.

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Made in se
Dakka Veteran





 Dynas wrote:
 catbarf wrote:
 N.I.B. wrote:
Rending Claws on the Warriors? I assume it's because he didn't have enough bits around to give them Boneswords, which are much better for the same cost.


I was thinking the same thing; I've run the math and pretty much the only thing Rending Claws are better against is T8/3+ vehicles, and they're still not very good at it.

Honestly I think our melee weapons need a re-work. They need clearer roles and reasons to choose one over another.


This. There's a lot of knights still. Get into CC with them and go to town.

Not sure what you mean, but Tyranid Warriors will never "go to town" on a Knight in cc, regardless of their weapon of choice. Nine rending Warriors averages 3 wounds to a Knight, bonesword Warriors averages 2,64 wounds. The difference is very small, and a nearby Prime for WS boost doesn't help much. Boneswords are clearly the better choice for an all-comers list.
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule






Nottingham (yay!)

Don’t you get over twice as many GS attacks as you do TW attacks for a given number of points? To say nothing of the more convoluted process required to have TWs reach a Knight. Yeah, they can jump out of like a tunnel, but that requires your opponent to not bother screening a Knight when they can see you have a Trygon.

   
Made in se
Dakka Veteran





 lindsay40k wrote:
Don’t you get over twice as many GS attacks as you do TW attacks for a given number of points? To say nothing of the more convoluted process required to have TWs reach a Knight. Yeah, they can jump out of like a tunnel, but that requires your opponent to not bother screening a Knight when they can see you have a Trygon.

Yeah Warriors are kind of lame as a spearhead unit. Their best feature is half-decent shooting when backed up by a buffing Alpha, and decent survivability along with handing out fearless to your critters.
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut





 N.I.B. wrote:
 Nitro Zeus wrote:
He just considered the Warriors as another unit of Stealers. Except unlike Stealers, they get to shoot if they whiff the charge so they still have some impact (and also dirt cheap AG), and then cause of Jorm they get to sit there with a 3+ save and hopefully distract some fire while he gets in with other units.

He was double shooting Biovores vs Knights and vs Custodes, but you could always do it on the Warriors too. Either way they are still DS’ing and charging.

He said he’s dropping some Biovores for OOE. Also don’t consider this list some ironed out game plan, he had a bunch of untested ideas he threw into the list, and also got tabled in his first practice match which contributed to the list name “gak nids” but it was locked in for the event. Luckily for him he played it well and got that 2nd place finish.

He used the Mawloc to bring in the Warriors with the stratagem. Adrenal Glands give them 8" charge. I'm guessing saved a CP re-roll for it.

TBH other than the Mawloc and Warriors, it looks pretty good to me. And even that isn't terrible either, though I'd at least prefer a Trygon over the Mawloc or something that can have an impact, especially since it would let you move away from Jorm (maybe Behemoth for re-rolls on the Warriors).

Jormungandr gives the Mawloc a 2+ save when it pops up, and the deepstrike strat. If you go with Behemoth you'd be forced to give them a Tyrannocyte, which would suck. Mawloc isn't the best taxi though, because it's rare that it can be both with 2" of enemies and have its passengers outside of 9". I'd consider 3 Raveners and save 40pts.
Trygon is nice when it randomly nails the charge, but it's much more expensive than the Mawloc. It does open up for Kraken instead of Jormungandr.

I literally said Behemoth if you take a Trygon, because otherwise you are forced to go Jorm. You obviously can’t go Behemoth with the Mawloc and Warriors, that was my point. Swapping to a Trygon gives you a model with damage output closer to being fair for his cost, saves you CP on the strat, and let’s you go Behemoth for the random charge he was making every single time he deployed them and turning that 27% chance into 55%. It costs a little more so Raveners are also an option, that just seemed further away from his list when I picked one.

OOE is nice, too bad he costs 4 Biovores.



I think you mean “Biovores are nice, too bad 4 of them cost as much as OOE”. OOE is priced very nicely, Biovores are still kinda iffy at their cost.

   
Made in se
Dakka Veteran





 Nitro Zeus wrote:

OOE is nice, too bad he costs 4 Biovores.



I think you mean “Biovores are nice, too bad 4 of them cost as much as OOE”. OOE is priced very nicely, Biovores are still kinda iffy at their cost.


Well, for sure. OOE is reasonably costed and Biovores were overnerfed (why does it seems that Nids always get the knee-jerk overnerfs) but I'm not sure that list can lose 4 Biovores and work as intended.
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut





Fair enough. Points efficiency isn’t always representative of role necessity!
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 N.I.B. wrote:
 Nitro Zeus wrote:

OOE is nice, too bad he costs 4 Biovores.



I think you mean “Biovores are nice, too bad 4 of them cost as much as OOE”. OOE is priced very nicely, Biovores are still kinda iffy at their cost.


Well, for sure. OOE is reasonably costed and Biovores were overnerfed (why does it seems that Nids always get the knee-jerk overnerfs) but I'm not sure that list can lose 4 Biovores and work as intended.


Nids are always first to get over nerf, i remember 4th to 5th, Cruddance even said once that nids needs to be tone down b.c they can ruin guard to easily, sure it was a joke comment in some white dwarf years ago, but..... comments like that i dont think are jokes.

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Beastmen 6500

Reading/Writing LD, be kind!

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Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut





That might explain the awful 5th ed Tyranid codex that he wrote shortly following that then.
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






Texas

Yup, We seem to be good for about 3 months after each Codex drops then any trick we have is killed.

Meanwhile we get power armor rolling out the factories faster than Ford Model T's. *BARF*

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Made in us
Irked Necron Immortal



Colorado

Is there any point to playing Nids at the tournament level when Marines are just going to ROFL stomp everything we have in 2 turns or less?
   
Made in us
Tough Tyrant Guard






What specifically are you thinking of? Aggressors are a nuisance but I have not seen anything else that is especially troublesome for Tyranids or Tyranids + GSC.

Admittedly I have not dug too deep into the various codex supplements, so there could be something that I am unaware of.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/26 23:33:34


 
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut




Nids are mostly fine against the new marines.

On the contrary, it could have become easier for us. Sure, those marines are beefed up, but they are now without the cheap screens needed to keep our jaws away from their limbs.
   
Made in us
Irked Necron Immortal



Colorado

This: http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/thread/57337/play-new-weapon-associated-toys
   
Made in us
Irked Necron Immortal



Colorado

So, I was thinking about how to get to those support character the SM's rely so heavily on. Has anyone tried DSing Zoes in to use their Pychic Barrage strat yet? Seems like a viable way to ruin someone's day.
   
Made in ca
Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos





British Columbia

Tunneling in 9 with Jormangundr could be ok. Fishing for 5s against characters though.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
That's what 7th edition is about. Yelling "Forge the Narrative Pussy!" while kicking your opponent in the dick.
 BlaxicanX wrote:
A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.


 
   
Made in us
Irked Necron Immortal



Colorado

 Eldarain wrote:
Tunneling in 9 with Jormangundr could be ok. Fishing for 5s against characters though.
Save a CP reroll for a priority Character. It's basically all we have to snipe Characters with.
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






Texas

 Eldarain wrote:
Tunneling in 9 with Jormangundr could be ok. Fishing for 5s against characters though.


Good players screen DS with scouts or the new non dreadnought warsuit.

Space Marines are way OP now.

Best bet. Ignore the Leviathan dread buff guy, kill everything else. Play for objectives, board control. Take LoS blocking terrain, try and get some charges off where he cant see you so he can't overwatch and then wrap, pile in and consolidate.

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Made in us
Irked Necron Immortal



Colorado

 Dynas wrote:
 Eldarain wrote:
Tunneling in 9 with Jormangundr could be ok. Fishing for 5s against characters though.


Good players screen DS with scouts or the new non dreadnought warsuit.

Space Marines are way OP now.

Best bet. Ignore the Leviathan dread buff guy, kill everything else. Play for objectives, board control. Take LoS blocking terrain, try and get some charges off where he cant see you so he can't overwatch and then wrap, pile in and consolidate.
Why not both? And are you sure you're aware of the strategem I'm referring to? You pick a point and roll for units within 3". Screening units be damned.
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Looks similar to necron doom scythe stratagem.

Alas there's one issue. He can use another stratagem to make nearby buddies to take mortal wounds instead of the character. Albeit that squad takes tons of damage then but character is safe.

(had been hoping to use doom scythe stratagem but with bodyguard unit it's just not enough mortal wounds to kill character)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/03 19:43:19


https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/11/16/tneva82-goblins-humans-and-elves/ <- lotr painting blog

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11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






Texas

Can anyone verify the rumors of Blood Angel and Nids getting updates/new models/drops for Psychic Awakening early Jan 2020? I saw it on the BA thread.

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Made in us
Irked Necron Immortal



Colorado

Just to be clear, the Iron Hands stratagem to shunt wounds from a Character to other units only happens to work in the Shooting phase. Sucks for Doom Scythe strat but Zoanthropes work in a different phase altogether.
   
Made in ca
Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos





British Columbia

That is definitely a point in it's favour. What else would you build with the 1571?

 Crimson Devil wrote:
That's what 7th edition is about. Yelling "Forge the Narrative Pussy!" while kicking your opponent in the dick.
 BlaxicanX wrote:
A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.


 
   
Made in de
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch



Netherlands

Zoanthropes are just too damn expensive at the moment. With a min of 3 models per unit, we're talking about a 120 pt non character psyker in the least. And for 120 pts, this psyker isn't even that amazing. Normal sorcerers have a wider variety of spells to pick + character protection and they cost 90 pts.

Even worse, to even take three units (360) pts + delivery system, wait one turn, then hope and pray on a bunch of 4+ isn't my idea of strategy honestly.

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Made in us
Irked Necron Immortal



Colorado

topaxygouroun i wrote:
Zoanthropes are just too damn expensive at the moment. With a min of 3 models per unit, we're talking about a 120 pt non character psyker in the least. And for 120 pts, this psyker isn't even that amazing. Normal sorcerers have a wider variety of spells to pick + character protection and they cost 90 pts.

Even worse, to even take three units (360) pts + delivery system, wait one turn, then hope and pray on a bunch of 4+ isn't my idea of strategy honestly.
Good for you, but I don't think I agree with your assessment. Zoanthropes get 3++, SitW, Synapse and 9 wounds minimum, that's pretty good for 120 points and I don't care if you can target them or not. Oh, they also have Fly and their Smite goes 24" instead of 18". Hive Mind powers are not gak either. Again your assess should not be paid any mind.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/10/04 13:14:08


 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut





By what measure is that pretty good? Ignoring the heals, Neurothropes are 30 pts cheaper, get 2 casts instead of one, have a bonus to casting, and can't even be targeted making them far more durable even with 5 wounds instead of 9. And that's post nerf Neurothropes. Yeah I just don't see it.
   
 
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