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 Irbis wrote:
Why he hates these and not say new Chaos Lord on drake?

Because it's a Karkadrak and doesn't have the DRAKES keyword?

 Irbis wrote:
Ork boss on wyvern?

Because it's a Maw-krusha and not a wyvern or have the DRAKES keyword at this time?

 Irbis wrote:
Multiple elf and human characters on dragons?

Because we haven't seen the 3rd edition rules yet which may give dragons the DRAKES keyword?

 Irbis wrote:
Why not Belakor, he looks very much dragonish? Or all Lizardmen? What about vampires and their zombie/skeleton dragons? It makes no sense and besides, anti-X faction rules (especially when X includes most of lovingly painted centrepieces that now turn into shelf warmers every time you play vs destruction) are just terrible rule writing...

Again, we've not seen the FAQs that will update everything to 3rd edition. Some of those may receive the DRAKES keyword via those FAQs (but I feel confident in saying that Be'lakor and the Seraphon will not).

Well, Be’lakor isn’t a Drake, Dragon, Serpent, Wybern, Snek, Danger Noodle or Nope Rope.

He was a bloke, now he’s a great ‘orrible Daemon Prince.

Lizardmen aren’t Dragons, just as Dragon’s aren’t Dinosaurs.

 Irbis wrote:
What I don't like in Kragnos sheet is the dumb choice of stuff he hates. It's pretty much all Stormcast dragons-ish stuff (why it includes big cats with just tiny bit of drake blood, again???). Why he hates these and not say new Chaos Lord on drake? Ork boss on wyvern? Multiple elf and human characters on dragons? Why not Belakor, he looks very much dragonish? Or all Lizardmen? What about vampires and their zombie/skeleton dragons? It makes no sense and besides, anti-X faction rules (especially when X includes most of lovingly painted centrepieces that now turn into shelf warmers every time you play vs destruction) are just terrible rule writing...

Because he hates specifically those who belonged to the Draconith that were his sworn enemy in his time, and certainly Dracothion and its children because of its role for his capture ?

I mean, it's litterally explained in the Warhammer Community article.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/05/24/get-to-know-kragnos-the-grumpy-god-who-tried-to-rage-smash-all-the-eggs-in-the-mortal-realms/

Yep, the lore matters in the rules sometimes. Even if it's an anecdotic rule, that's still the reason it's there.

It's just lucky Kragnos is master of linnean taxonomy and can easily tell a drake from other dracoforms apart.

Cronch wrote:
It's just lucky Kragnos is master of linnean taxonomy and can easily tell a drake from other dracoforms apart.

TBF having two functioning eyes seems to help immensely.

Clearly, after all the wingless dragons stormcast ride are very different to the wingless dragon that the chaos lord rides. Night and day difference to the discerning god-like embodiment of destructive forces. He wouldn't want to vent his anger on things that just look like his hated foe after all. He only goes after big lizards with proven pedigrees, thank you very much.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Well, Be’lakor isn’t a Drake, Dragon, Serpent, Wybern, Snek, Danger Noodle or Nope Rope.

He was a bloke, now he’s a great ‘orrible Daemon Prince.

Lizardmen aren’t Dragons, just as Dragon’s aren’t Dinosaurs.

He is not, yes. Thing is, he looks much more like one than half of the stuff on the list. Ditto for lizardmen.

Sensible rule writing that has lore in mind would have him hate everything that looks vaguely draconic, not stuff (like Stormcast cats) that does not. What, he pulls Realmis Naturalis book out of his behind and goes 'Hmm, these are Seraphonics Models Overpricicus, so I can't hate them. Drats. Damn my 200% rational hate on precise scientific basis!'

 Ghaz wrote:

 Irbis wrote:
Why he hates these and not say new Chaos Lord on drake?

Because it's a Karkadrak and doesn't have the DRAKES keyword?

Except this argument makes no sense because if it was just a matter of adding drakes keyword, they wouldn't need to list most of stormcast cavalry separately. Slap drakes keyword on all of them and job done. No, them being super precise means this is not a generic keyword and all the stuff I mentioned won't be getting them, FAQ or not.

Sarouan wrote:
Because he hates specifically those who belonged to the Draconith that were his sworn enemy in his time, and certainly Dracothion and its children because of its role for his capture ?

I mean, it's litterally explained in the Warhammer Community article.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/05/24/get-to-know-kragnos-the-grumpy-god-who-tried-to-rage-smash-all-the-eggs-in-the-mortal-realms/

Yep, the lore matters in the rules sometimes. Even if it's an anecdotic rule, that's still the reason it's there.

If you actually bothered to read the lore, which you obviously didn't, you'd knew several of the stuff I mentioned ARE Draconith, while several of the things mentioned in Kragnos rules were created AFTER he was imprisoned, so he should have no idea what they are to begin with. That's why it makes no damn sense

Maybe go read lore now, then open your mouth when you actually have something to contribute?

I mean why can't he have a copy of Realmis Naturalis?

Or an innate magical/godly gift/sense that allows him to pick out draconic creatures from others, even if they might be several generations of breeding or evolution from them.


The idea of dragons/draconic creatures having a specific aura or such isn't anything new in general fantasy.


He might be really angry and insane but that doesn't mean he has to mindlessly attack every single thing that vaguely looks like a dragon all the time, esp in something like the mortal realms where there are loads of things that will look like a dragon without being a dragon.






ALSO I want GW to publish Realmis Naturalis

 Irbis wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 Irbis wrote:
Why he hates these and not say new Chaos Lord on drake?

Because it's a Karkadrak and doesn't have the DRAKES keyword?

Except this argument makes no sense because if it was just a matter of adding drakes keyword, they wouldn't need to list most of stormcast cavalry separately. Slap drakes keyword on all of them and job done. No, them being super precise means this is not a generic keyword and all the stuff I mentioned won't be getting them, FAQ or not.

Maybe it's because the DRAKES keyword will have additional rule which wouldn't apply to models with the STARDRAKES, DRACOTHS or DRACOLINES keywords. Maybe it's because a drake is a drake and a dracoth is not. With different keywords, the different models can be affected (or not) by different things.

He might be angry and insane, but he is very rational in this one specific instance, okay.

 Irbis wrote:

If you actually bothered to read the lore, which you obviously didn't, you'd knew several of the stuff I mentioned ARE Draconith, while several of the things mentioned in Kragnos rules were created AFTER he was imprisoned, so he should have no idea what they are to begin with. That's why it makes no damn sense

Maybe go read lore now, then open your mouth when you actually have something to contribute?

If you actually read the lore in Stomcast Eternal about Stardrakes and Dracoths, you would have known they are way older than Stormcast Eternals (clearly hinted page 34 and 35 from the Stormcast Eternal Battletome). So they can be Draconith for all that matters.

As for "normal dragons" that humans and aelves ride...it's actually only the aelves so far and only one remains in Cities of Sigmar (black dragon). The lore doesn't tie them to Draconith - actually, black dragons are said to be nearly extinct since the Age of Chaos and now they are born from eggs infused with dark magic and sacrifices. They can verily not be considered the same as drakes anymore. The others in Grand Alliance Order book at the time of 1st edition doesn't either (no real surprise here) - and since they disappeared entirely, they may not even matter anymore anyway.

Karkadrak and Mawkrusha have nothing to do with drakes in the lore either. Karkadraks are just reptiles native to the Omnipoints (Slaves to Darkness battletome page 30). Mawkrushas don't have a lot more about them either. It's not because the name ends in "drak" that it's a drake.

And zombie dragons (there's no skeleton dragon so far in AoS, mind you) ? Nonetheless that they may not very well be Draconith anyway, well...they're zombies. Why Kragnos would care about a corpse ?

So you should read first what is actually written in the lore before trying to force what you want to see as the truth to others.


To be honest, so far, we don't really know what really counts as a drake unless it already has that keyword anyway. Seems like it's really tied to Dracothion's children so far...

Why Kragnos would care about a corpse ?

Kragnos is especially enraged by zombie drakes, he killed them once before and they dare defy his might by coming back? Kragnos SMASH!

You can justify whatever you want, it's character in a story. I just find the way they chose to apply it in rules very clumsy and funny.

Cronch wrote:

Why Kragnos would care about a corpse ?

Kragnos is especially enraged by zombie drakes, he killed them once before and they dare defy his might by coming back? Kragnos SMASH!

You can justify whatever you want, it's character in a story. I just find the way they chose to apply it in rules very clumsy and funny.

Yep, it's a matter of perspective. Which is why it's funny to see Irbis getting "all angry" about it as well that Karkadraks don't have the DRAKE keyword.

In the end, GW is like the Dungeon Master for AoS. If they say dwarves fly, the only answer here is "yes sir ! At what height ?".

It's funny because dwarves actually fly in AoS.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
New article on Warhammer Community and GOD THE SPOILERS !

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/05/25/as-the-new-edition-dawns-where-does-each-grand-alliance-stand/

Like "we don't even care anymore about what you will read as story in Kragnos".

They really are late in their release planning for AoS, aren't they.

There's theories that GW has dropped a whole campaign book just to speed this up. I even recall some hint of the Everqueen getting her own book from rumours from a long way back. It wouldn't shock me if GW has sped things up even more and squished two books together and is now having to drop spoilers becuase of what's coming on this weekend.

Sadly big edition releases are one of the few things it seems GW cannot move around much if at all in the way they are setup. So when it comes it comes even if that means things get a bit squashed beforehand.

Man, I just want redux'd wood dragons like the ones from Total War, straight out from the game to my desk.

Metal and resin dragons were just disgraces.

Another silhouette teaser.

There is a shoulderpad so maybe some Sigmarine?

Probably a new Knight Incantor variant

 Shadow Walker wrote:
There is a shoulderpad so maybe some Sigmarine?

I think it's safe to assume that if it doesn't look like a bullish primitive monster until next saturday, it has 99,99 % chance to be a Sigmar...Stormcast Eternal.

Yep, looks like the new mage gal in the Dominion Box.

 Shadow Walker wrote:
There is a shoulderpad so maybe some Sigmarine?

Why wouldn't there be Sigmarines in a starter kit?

 DaveC wrote:
Probably a new Knight Incantor variant

Doubtful. Knight-Incantor is already a well covered profile.

 Binabik15 wrote:
I hate GW's newer "contact the store" policy so much. I had damaged Dakkajets in the AI box, GW told me to contact the store, Wayland Games told me to contact GW...now I have at least one jet with Imperial rocket tails as shoota barrels.

I really like the witch hunter family, but my plan to use them and the Cursed City guy to reinforce my Warcry band is shot to pieces anyway (with the CC situation).

Aboit the AoS starter I'm not sure I'll get it, haven't fully painted a single Stormcast, ever, and I never liked Hobgoblins. Gorilla boyz 4 life.

Do you have any storm cast? Trying to find some liberators currently


Automatically Appended Next Post:

drbored wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Binabik15 wrote:
I hate GW's newer "contact the store" policy so much. I had damaged Dakkajets in the AI box, GW told me to contact the store, Wayland Games told me to contact GW...now I have at least one jet with Imperial rocket tails as shoota barrels.

Given the price of those little planes I wouldn't put up with that.

In the UK, the retailer is responsible for returns/replacement/refund. The manufacturer might give you one, but they don't have to, they can tell you to go via the retailer, but the retailer can't ignore you. I'd tell Wayland you already asked GW and it's Wayland's responsibility, if they still don't step up you could tell GW the retailer isn't behaving or I imagine there's people you can report them to.

Yeah, Wayland telling you to contact GW is lazy on their part. The typical pattern is that they take the damaged product, send it back to GW, GW sends them a new box or credits them. It is, yes, some work on Wayland's part, but it's entirely on them as the final handler of the product to make things right.

GW, for all its flaws, takes the handling of their product really seriously. If a bit is missing or broken by the time you open the box, they typically try to make it right.

Anyway. Interesting to see the stuff coming forth for Kragnos and the future of AoS. I have ZERO interest in the Dominion box, mostly because I know it'll sell out fast, and all the pieces of it will be available later. I'll happily munch popcorn as the community makes a big fuss about it. Ra ra scalpers, ra ra GW, ra ra limited product (that isn't, it's just limited at that price point, everything will be available later, just like it was for 40k)

Typically, yes, but they just told me to contact my local store about it even though it's potentially a fault of the product itself with the new skeletons femurs breaking so easily.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 DaveC wrote:
Probably a new Knight Incantor variant

Doubtful. Knight-Incantor is already a well covered profile.

Might be a variant model, rather than a new character profile. The current Incantors are locked into the magazine and two main starters, so I'd assume GW will make the Incantor available in a different form going forward.

Assuming that at least the smallest of the new starter sets will follow 40K's Recruit Edition, we ought to see each side having a solid battleline unit and a leader character. A Knight-Incantor wouldn't be a terrible choice...

 Kanluwen wrote:

 DaveC wrote:
Probably a new Knight Incantor variant

Doubtful. Knight-Incantor is already a well covered profile.

Liberators as well, and yet we will have Vindictors.

Totally a new mage-type variant. Or a named character. Or both. We'll know saturday, anyway.


Looks like they redacted the article on Warhammer Community to remove the spoilers... ... It was too spoiler-ish !

SamusDrake wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 DaveC wrote:
Probably a new Knight Incantor variant

Doubtful. Knight-Incantor is already a well covered profile.

Might be a variant model, rather than a new character profile. The current Incantors are locked into the magazine and two main starters, so I'd assume GW will make the Incantor available in a different form going forward.

They have.

Evocator boxed set wrote:
Key Features
Imbued with the power of the storm – literal shock-troops of Sigmar
Armed with a choice of stormstave and tempest blade or grandstave
Includes options for Evocator-Prime and Knight-Incantor models

Assuming that at least the smallest of the new starter sets will follow 40K's Recruit Edition, we ought to see each side having a solid battleline unit and a leader character. A Knight-Incantor wouldn't be a terrible choice...

But it would be a wildly overdone option.

If anything, it is more likely to be something Priesty.

I'm mostly upset that due to Kragnos going stompy stompy on dragons, that's why we don't have more dragon models. I just built a Stardrake and it's a FANTASTIC kit, and has all the features of a proper dragon (wings and four legs, big horns, proper face, etc).

Many fantasy settings have to choose a line of how many dragons they want, from no dragons to many dragons, and it looks like AoS is closer to the 'no dragons' part of the line, which makes me sad.

I just want more dragons.

drbored wrote:
I'm mostly upset that due to Kragnos going stompy stompy on dragons, that's why we don't have more dragon models. I just built a Stardrake and it's a FANTASTIC kit, and has all the features of a proper dragon (wings and four legs, big horns, proper face, etc).

Many fantasy settings have to choose a line of how many dragons they want, from no dragons to many dragons, and it looks like AoS is closer to the 'no dragons' part of the line, which makes me sad.

I just want more dragons.

I love Dragons but there are quite a few in AOs (the WC article notwithstanding)

A Dragon God
Various Dragon God-Beasts
Black Dragons
Stormcast Dragons
Zombie Dragons
Ordo Draconis Dragons

It definitely looks like Kragnos' beef is with dracothian-associated dragonoids, which would come with a certain magical 'attunement' to them per say. It is very much a case of making perfect sense if one knows the fluff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

drbored wrote:
I'm mostly upset that due to Kragnos going stompy stompy on dragons, that's why we don't have more dragon models. I just built a Stardrake and it's a FANTASTIC kit, and has all the features of a proper dragon (wings and four legs, big horns, proper face, etc).

Many fantasy settings have to choose a line of how many dragons they want, from no dragons to many dragons, and it looks like AoS is closer to the 'no dragons' part of the line, which makes me sad.

I just want more dragons.

Yeah, I also want AoS to have some basic dragon stuff. Just dragons, make them verbnouner dragons is they really want to be anal about their weird naming fetish, but still just dragons. All we really have is the black dragon, since the high elf ones are gone. Zombie dragon too, but with nothing in the game remotely resembling its living form despite supposedly existing. Like the state of Orruks there is no baseline so the special variants don't mean anything.

 Kanluwen wrote:

They have.

Evocator boxed set wrote:
Key Features
Imbued with the power of the storm – literal shock-troops of Sigmar
Armed with a choice of stormstave and tempest blade or grandstave
Includes options for Evocator-Prime and Knight-Incantor models

I had no idea that was part of the Evocators kit. Cheers, Kanluwen!

 Mr Morden wrote:

drbored wrote:
I'm mostly upset that due to Kragnos going stompy stompy on dragons, that's why we don't have more dragon models. I just built a Stardrake and it's a FANTASTIC kit, and has all the features of a proper dragon (wings and four legs, big horns, proper face, etc).

Many fantasy settings have to choose a line of how many dragons they want, from no dragons to many dragons, and it looks like AoS is closer to the 'no dragons' part of the line, which makes me sad.

I just want more dragons.

I love Dragons but there are quite a few in AOs (the WC article notwithstanding)

A Dragon God
Various Dragon God-Beasts
Black Dragons
Stormcast Dragons
Zombie Dragons
Ordo Draconis Dragons

No model
No models
Terrible garbage model.
1 model
Doesn't really look like the skeleton of a dragon.