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So this mystery army, I’m torn on desperately wanting to see it, but also kinda want the reveal to be a big surprise, so don’t want spoilers.

 Prometheum5 wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
US prices from my FLGS

Yikes.

Surprised Kragnos isn't more (Mega-gargant territory, since they explicitly compared him to them).
The rest is pretty much as expected (not to say that isn't high, just not a surprise).

Ironscale being sub-$40 while the Witch Hunters are $50 was a surprise.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Ironscale being sub-$40 while the Witch Hunters are $50 was a surprise.

Well the Witch Hunters are two minis which under normal (for GW) circumstances would be around 25-30$ separately, aye?

 Kanluwen wrote:
Ironscale being sub-$40 while the Witch Hunters are $50 was a surprise.

Why would it be ? Ironscale is a generic single character, Witch Hunters are a duo of named characters. Of course the Witch Hunters would be sold at a higher price.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Ironscale being sub-$40 while the Witch Hunters are $50 was a surprise.

Well the Witch Hunters are two minis which under normal (for GW) circumstances would be around 25-30$ separately, aye?

It's a box discount; they would be $60 individually! Wow, such savings!

People just don't understand the dynamic between how the miniatures work in game and their production release.

In a game, you know there is a limit to how many characters you can include in your armies - especially the unique ones. While one player can buy multiple boxes of generic troops, he's less likely to do so with the heroes. As for the named characters...he'll only need one set. Those who buy multiple boxes of unique units for conversions are more the exception than the rule here.

So it's not just "GW wants to make moar money on the Witch Hunters".

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
So this mystery army, I’m torn on desperately wanting to see it, but also kinda want the reveal to be a big surprise, so don’t want spoilers.

Its only another five days. So it would IMO be a shame if the reveals did get spoiled this late.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
So this mystery army, I’m torn on desperately wanting to see it, but also kinda want the reveal to be a big surprise, so don’t want spoilers.

Anorexic Orcs, from what we've seen.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
So this mystery army, I’m torn on desperately wanting to see it, but also kinda want the reveal to be a big surprise, so don’t want spoilers.

Anorexic Orcs, from what we've seen.

Skinny orcs are the new style. Don't bodyshame

 Ghaz wrote:
US prices from my FLGS

So the witch hunters in GBP are 31.50 and according to today's exchange rate it should be 44.5 in USD. Why is it $50?

 CMLR wrote:
Wonder if this means that someday Sigmar himself will get his own model...

I want this so bad, along with Grimnir, Grungi, the actual Chaos Gods, etc. The epic feel of AoS running things like Teclis, Archaon, Nagash is a huge part of the draw to a lot of players, myself included.

 GrosseSax wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
US prices from my FLGS

... today's exchange rate...

GW doesn't use no stinkin' exchange rates...

Primaris Eradicators are £31.50 on the UK webstore and $50 on the US webstore. For the time being, that is the exchange rate that GW is using.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 godswildcard wrote:
Wow. Kragnos is really a monster!

I wonder if the 18 wounds is how they felt they 'balanced' him.

Or maybe he's stupid expensive. What are some other models that get up there in points? Has anything broken 600?

Archaon is 800 points in the Slaves to Darkness battletome, Teclis is 660 poinnts in the Lumineth Realm-lords battletome and Nagash is 975 points in the Soulblight Gravelords battletome. Greater Daemons come in between 300 to 400 points.

Balance him? Just mortal wound him to death. Zombies are a great counter to the God of Earthquakes and it makes me sad that isn't sarcastic.

Yeah, he, uh, doesn’t seem to have any protection from MW aside from his dispel-shield for spells.

Anyway, does anyone else think his monster trample ability is ridiculously swingy? Anything from 1 to 36 MW assuming it doesn’t fail.

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 godswildcard wrote:
Wow. Kragnos is really a monster!

I wonder if the 18 wounds is how they felt they 'balanced' him.

Or maybe he's stupid expensive. What are some other models that get up there in points? Has anything broken 600?

Archaon is 800 points in the Slaves to Darkness battletome, Teclis is 660 poinnts in the Lumineth Realm-lords battletome and Nagash is 975 points in the Soulblight Gravelords battletome. Greater Daemons come in between 300 to 400 points.

Balance him? Just mortal wound him to death. Zombies are a great counter to the God of Earthquakes and it makes me sad that isn't sarcastic.

Yeah, he, uh, doesn’t seem to have any protection from MW aside from his dispel-shield for spells.

Anyway, does anyone else think his monster trample ability is ridiculously swingy? Anything from 1 to 36 MW assuming it doesn’t fail.

Just make him roll buckets of saving throws. Preferably from a distance.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 godswildcard wrote:
Wow. Kragnos is really a monster!

I wonder if the 18 wounds is how they felt they 'balanced' him.

Or maybe he's stupid expensive. What are some other models that get up there in points? Has anything broken 600?

Archaon is 800 points in the Slaves to Darkness battletome, Teclis is 660 poinnts in the Lumineth Realm-lords battletome and Nagash is 975 points in the Soulblight Gravelords battletome. Greater Daemons come in between 300 to 400 points.

Balance him? Just mortal wound him to death. Zombies are a great counter to the God of Earthquakes and it makes me sad that isn't sarcastic.

Yeah, he, uh, doesn’t seem to have any protection from MW aside from his dispel-shield for spells.

Anyway, does anyone else think his monster trample ability is ridiculously swingy? Anything from 1 to 36 MW assuming it doesn’t fail.

Just make him roll buckets of saving throws. Preferably from a distance.

With an edition change on the horizon it's mostly useless to speculate as to what we can do with or without him. Wizards in Destruction might get some kind of spell save vs mortals that they could cast on as a buff making him even more tanky.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Somebody else posted the same thing here (or one of the other N&R threads) and there have been more online elsewhere

so either it's a bad design (possible as these are skeleton legs) or perhaps their normal plastic supplier was out of stock and they've bought some from another supplier that just isn't great quality (too much recycled material in it?),

I've had issues with scale model kits from Miniart which were really fragile and that was down to them being unable to get their normal plastic when Ukraine and Russia first started to have troubles

be sure to complain direct to GW (they may well offer replacements, and will hopefully address the sculpting/materials issue for the future)

I sent an email to GW about mine. They said to contact the store I bought them from because its an LGS and I didn't buy directly. I'm annoyed because its not the LGS fault they shipped a faulty product.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 GrosseSax wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
US prices from my FLGS

So the witch hunters in GBP are 31.50 and according to today's exchange rate it should be 44.5 in USD. Why is it $50?

Because GW has flatly refused to use exchange rates for years.

also, $50 for two infantry sized models is crazy.

I hate GW's newer "contact the store" policy so much. I had damaged Dakkajets in the AI box, GW told me to contact the store, Wayland Games told me to contact GW...now I have at least one jet with Imperial rocket tails as shoota barrels.

I really like the witch hunter family, but my plan to use them and the Cursed City guy to reinforce my Warcry band is shot to pieces anyway (with the CC situation).

Aboit the AoS starter I'm not sure I'll get it, haven't fully painted a single Stormcast, ever, and I never liked Hobgoblins. Gorilla boyz 4 life.

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 godswildcard wrote:
Wow. Kragnos is really a monster!

I wonder if the 18 wounds is how they felt they 'balanced' him.

Or maybe he's stupid expensive. What are some other models that get up there in points? Has anything broken 600?

Archaon is 800 points in the Slaves to Darkness battletome, Teclis is 660 poinnts in the Lumineth Realm-lords battletome and Nagash is 975 points in the Soulblight Gravelords battletome. Greater Daemons come in between 300 to 400 points.

Balance him? Just mortal wound him to death. Zombies are a great counter to the God of Earthquakes and it makes me sad that isn't sarcastic.

Yeah, he, uh, doesn’t seem to have any protection from MW aside from his dispel-shield for spells.

Anyway, does anyone else think his monster trample ability is ridiculously swingy? Anything from 1 to 36 MW assuming it doesn’t fail.

It is a bell curve though; getting 1 or 36 is going to be something a regular player might see a couple times a year. The lower end is still up from it failing outright, while the higher end will almost never be relevant. There are few monsters that would feel a difference between 16 and 36 wounds; most would just be equally dead and the overkill offers no benefit.

That said, yeah, it is still ridiculously swingy. I feel it pushes past the 'fun-Destruction-random' to being simply too random and much less fun than it could be. Added together would have been a superior choice in my eyes.

 Binabik15 wrote:
I hate GW's newer "contact the store" policy so much. I had damaged Dakkajets in the AI box, GW told me to contact the store, Wayland Games told me to contact GW...now I have at least one jet with Imperial rocket tails as shoota barrels.

I really like the witch hunter family, but my plan to use them and the Cursed City guy to reinforce my Warcry band is shot to pieces anyway (with the CC situation).

Aboit the AoS starter I'm not sure I'll get it, haven't fully painted a single Stormcast, ever, and I never liked Hobgoblins. Gorilla boyz 4 life.

Hobgoblins? What?

On Kragnos’ trample attack?

I see it is a nice perk, something which encourages a slightly reckless play style where he’s always better off charging.

The Dreadmace itself is nicely reliable with its flat 4 Damage. Add in his other attacks and he’s perfectly capable in combat even if he does little or nothing just for charging.

But the chance of doing some hefty Mortal Wounds is solid encouragement not to be shy. He’s a great battering ram against other heavy hitters. It doesn’t take much in the way of luck to deal a bunch of MW and then smash their face in with his regular attacks.

The flip side of course is that an opponent may very well be shy of engaging him with heavy hitters of their own.

Even if he is on the more expensive side of things, him scaring the pants off other big monsters gives you a significant board control tool. Enemy big monsters trying to avoid him need to be careful. And it’s not as if he’s solely limited to smashing big stuff, as any unit he decides to give a kicking is gonna be jam.

I like him, a lot. Is there a place for him in my Gloomspite? Maybe not regularly because I really, really love my Squigs. But once in a while? Sure.

 Binabik15 wrote:
I hate GW's newer "contact the store" policy so much. I had damaged Dakkajets in the AI box, GW told me to contact the store, Wayland Games told me to contact GW...now I have at least one jet with Imperial rocket tails as shoota barrels.

Given the price of those little planes I wouldn't put up with that.

In the UK, the retailer is responsible for returns/replacement/refund. The manufacturer might give you one, but they don't have to, they can tell you to go via the retailer, but the retailer can't ignore you. I'd tell Wayland you already asked GW and it's Wayland's responsibility, if they still don't step up you could tell GW the retailer isn't behaving or I imagine there's people you can report them to.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
On Kragnos’ trample attack?

I see it is a nice perk, something which encourages a slightly reckless play style where he’s always better off charging.

Nice perk? Tad under 3 MW vs non-monsters, almost 11 MW vs monsters in average.

Bit more than perk

58% chance you flatten out any 12W monster(like my poor stegadons and bastiladons).

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Binabik15 wrote:
I hate GW's newer "contact the store" policy so much. I had damaged Dakkajets in the AI box, GW told me to contact the store, Wayland Games told me to contact GW...now I have at least one jet with Imperial rocket tails as shoota barrels.

Given the price of those little planes I wouldn't put up with that.

In the UK, the retailer is responsible for returns/replacement/refund. The manufacturer might give you one, but they don't have to, they can tell you to go via the retailer, but the retailer can't ignore you. I'd tell Wayland you already asked GW and it's Wayland's responsibility, if they still don't step up you could tell GW the retailer isn't behaving or I imagine there's people you can report them to.

Yeah, Wayland telling you to contact GW is lazy on their part. The typical pattern is that they take the damaged product, send it back to GW, GW sends them a new box or credits them. It is, yes, some work on Wayland's part, but it's entirely on them as the final handler of the product to make things right.

GW, for all its flaws, takes the handling of their product really seriously. If a bit is missing or broken by the time you open the box, they typically try to make it right.

Anyway. Interesting to see the stuff coming forth for Kragnos and the future of AoS. I have ZERO interest in the Dominion box, mostly because I know it'll sell out fast, and all the pieces of it will be available later. I'll happily munch popcorn as the community makes a big fuss about it. Ra ra scalpers, ra ra GW, ra ra limited product (that isn't, it's just limited at that price point, everything will be available later, just like it was for 40k)

tneva82 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
On Kragnos’ trample attack?

I see it is a nice perk, something which encourages a slightly reckless play style where he’s always better off charging.

Nice perk? Tad under 3 MW vs non-monsters, almost 11 MW vs monsters in average.

Bit more than perk

58% chance you flatten out any 12W monster(like my poor stegadons and bastiladons).

Ahhh....but depending on the enemies deployment and unit placement, he might leave himself expose by being so Killy! Especially if the foe has a reliable method of pumping out Mortal Wounds.

And so I understand the 58% chance, is that including rolls of 7 doing no MW?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
On Kragnos’ trample attack?

I see it is a nice perk, something which encourages a slightly reckless play style where he’s always better off charging.

Nice perk? Tad under 3 MW vs non-monsters, almost 11 MW vs monsters in average.

Bit more than perk

58% chance you flatten out any 12W monster(like my poor stegadons and bastiladons).

Ahhh....but depending on the enemies deployment and unit placement, he might leave himself expose by being so Killy! Especially if the foe has a reliable method of pumping out Mortal Wounds.

And so I understand the 58% chance, is that including rolls of 7 doing no MW?

Yes. Made 6x6 chart and put up MW's generated so for the 6 results of 7 put in 0.

Ah cool.

Wonder how the dice gods will favour it!

I don't really see the problem with Kragnos' ability. It's solely focused on monsters, so that means you have to charge a monster to try to deal 36 MW.

So the counter to him is obvious : charge him first. Or put a screen of horde guys in front of your monsters during your turn. He can't fly nor retreat and charge, after all.

 Binabik15 wrote:
I hate GW's newer "contact the store" policy so much. I had damaged Dakkajets in the AI box, GW told me to contact the store, Wayland Games told me to contact GW...now I have at least one jet with Imperial rocket tails as shoota barrels.

It’s not a new policy though? At least, not unless “multiple decades old” is new, anyway.
I mean you can sorta get around it by taking the box to an actual Warhammer store and telling them you got it as a gift so you don’t have a receipt, but they’ll only give you store credit or replacement.
Legally, you have no contract with them, implied or otherwise, just with the retailer.

That said, legally you do have a contract with Wayland, which includes statutory protections that you actually can’t sign away. If they refuse to honour it they are a) being donkey-caves and b) opening themselves up to legal action. But then I’ve heard of Wayland doing dumber stuff before so it’s not a super surprise. Have you considered switching retailers? BTW, it’s right in their Ts&Cs “Nothing in these terms of sale affects your statutory rights (including your right to receive a refund in respect of any defective product we sell to you).”

What I don't like in Kragnos sheet is the dumb choice of stuff he hates. It's pretty much all Stormcast dragons-ish stuff (why it includes big cats with just tiny bit of drake blood, again???). Why he hates these and not say new Chaos Lord on drake? Ork boss on wyvern? Multiple elf and human characters on dragons? Why not Belakor, he looks very much dragonish? Or all Lizardmen? What about vampires and their zombie/skeleton dragons? It makes no sense and besides, anti-X faction rules (especially when X includes most of lovingly painted centrepieces that now turn into shelf warmers every time you play vs destruction) are just terrible rule writing...