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I think the answer to Ork horde is Biovore.

Genestealers with a broodlord worked well against orks last night, as long as they get the charge. Its tricky, but with infiltrate, fleet, and high Initiative they can usually slice through a boyz mob before taking too much damage. Adrenal glands help against them too, but it starts getting on the expensive side.

Gornall wrote:How many Tau players take blacksun filters?

I do on certain guys, namely units who can move and shoot their Markerlight/Railgun, and the two Fire Warrior Shas'uis who start on the board in Dawn of War. You'll also never see me field a Necron army without a Solar Pulse. I LOVE having that kind of Alpha Strike power in Dawn of War and other Night Fight missions, and pretty much every tournament always has at least one.

Good thing I don't face Tau so outside of 18" my DL is always invisible.

50% of the time he is invisible beyond 10.5".

Markerlights still need to be in 18". A re-roll doesn't help that much.

Darksun's aren't a reroll, they double the distance. Acute Senses is what lets you reroll, and all Tau suits have that in addition.

ED209 wrote:I think the answer to Ork horde is Biovore.

Actually it's fully upgraded hormagaunts. They wreck horde Orks obscenely well.

I don't know about 10 point Hormagaunts. Seems pricey for a T3 6+ save body.

But this is my point though. In these competitive lists we are seeing there are no hormagaunts. There are no biovores. It's all about anti-mech, and it leaves a whole lot of vulnerability to those tourney players who footslog en masse.

Don't get me wrong, I know there are a ton of reasons to get in that transport, but I think we are focussing so much on 1 thing that some of the other options have been pushed to the back and forgotten about.

I took ~20 Hormagaunts and Gargoyles in my list... Plus don't forget the T-Fex has some mean anti-Infantry guns even if he takes the Bio Cannon. A Str 5 Large Blast and a Str 5 Template, which can Both be fired In Addition to his 2 shot Str 10 gun. Throw in a Tervigon fueled Onslaught so he can fire those off after running to get into a better/closer position if he needs to, and that'll put the hurt down. Tervigons also have the 18" ranged Str 5 Large Blast weapon as well.

Aren't MCs only allowed to fire two weapons?

The Thorax Swarm weapons that the T-Fex has, and Tyrant can purchase, are specifically allowed to be fired in addition to their other weapons.

Aduro wrote:

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:I hate the way these new competitive nid armies are shaping up. Same old gak just with new models. Lots of hive guard, the new tyrannofex, and tervigons.

How dare everyone want to use the cool new big units! Booooo!!! That said, I finally sat down and did... Math ::shudder:: and wrote up a tentative army list for a standard 1750 pt tournament.

HQ
Alpha Warrior w/ Boneswords and Deathspitter 95 pts

Elites
2x Hive Guard 100 pts
2x Hive Guard 100 pts

Troops
20x Termagaunts w/ 2 Stranglewebs 120 pts
20x Termagaunts w/ 2 Stranglewebs 120 pts
Tervigon w/ Adrenal, Toxin, Catalyst and Onslaught 210 pts
Tervigon w/ Adrenal, Toxin, Catalyst and Onslaught 210 pts
18x Hormagaunts w/ Toxin Sacs 160 pts


Fast Attack
20x Gargoyles w/ Toxin Sacs 140 pts


Heavy Support
T-Fex w/ Bio Cannon 265 pts
T-Fex w/ Bio Cannon 265 pts

Looks like a good list, however it lacks an answer to AV14. A simple cure is a unit of zoanthropes in a spore pod.

I'm looking at that right now, as there is a tournament next weekend, and I won't have any Hive Guard yet by then, but my Plasma Hatchers showed up in the mail today.

Linkdead wrote:

Looks like a good list, however it lacks an answer to AV14. A simple cure is a unit of zoanthropes in a spore pod.

The twin T-fex and cheap screening units are the answer to AV14. At 1750 it's unlikely you see more than one Land Raider*, and two Tfexi should be able to at least immobilize it before it can break all the little bug screens. Leman Russes can be eventually dealt with in close combat.

*not impossible, or even all that rare, but unless against GKs or certain deviant Chaos builds it's unlikely to face off against multiple Raiders in 1750.

What are the general thoughts and experiences on multiple trygons and or mawloks.

Is the prime upgrade worth it? I think regen is a must have personally.

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:What are the general thoughts and experiences on multiple trygons and or mawloks.

Is the prime upgrade worth it? I think regen is a must have personally.

I have heard from most people that two Trygons are necessary, but Mawlocs can be fielded alone, but I am thinking that two or three mawlocs would really cause a lot of havoc in the backfield. Possibly causing a late game objective steal.

I had bad experiences with mawlocs. It went down something like this.

Pop up
kill 4 marines
charged by marines with PF plus assault squad with PF
lose combat
fail hit and run
next turn dead mawloc

Of course this only happened because my damned trygon didn't come on till turn 4. I think it has potential, but it needs support. I'm going to be trying out multiple trygons next week and see how I do. I like the idea of dropping a lot of dangerous units into the opponents army and messing them up before they hit your lines, which the mawloc could also do (though in my opinion he is for smaller games only).

Sneezypanda wrote:

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:What are the general thoughts and experiences on multiple trygons and or mawloks.

Is the prime upgrade worth it? I think regen is a must have personally.

I have heard from most people that two Trygons are necessary, but Mawlocs can be fielded alone, but I am thinking that two or three mawlocs would really cause a lot of havoc in the backfield. Possibly causing a late game objective steal.

My opinion is that no matter Trygon or Mawloc ,as long as you drop or move or flank or infiltrate some really mean units at the same time to his face, you will do fine.

I think it would be fun to pod in 20 Termagants and Outflank with the Tervigon momma... that way more little bugs actually survive.

sourclams wrote:

ED209 wrote:I think the answer to Ork horde is Biovore.

Actually it's fully upgraded hormagaunts. They wreck horde Orks obscenely well.

Could be tricky that you need to get the charge or the horma wont get the point back ,even you could get the charge other mob may join the fight next turn and hormas are not likely to win the battle without furious charge. for a 20 hormas unit with Toxin Sacs and Adrenal Glands (200pts) you could get 4 biovore(180pts) that fire from first turn and watch them suffer to walk the way to your fire base, sth. you dont get much as a nids player

Themeatically, not competitively, I like a burrowing and deep striking army. One of the problems seems to be that there is no way to properly stage a tyranid burrow list. If my troop choices become available before or at the same time my trygon comes into play, they're stuck coming on the board in the usual fashion.

Yeah... I'm not thrilled with the burrowing rule. I can't see how to make that work either. I guess it's geared more towards outflankers than anything. If only the HT allowed rerolls like Tiggy.

See, that is where my nid army personally suffered little. At 2500 I face a single LR, every other tank/transport is armor 10 in the ass or in the case of rhinos no higher than 11 so even devourers do wonders for my army.

Against IG I face maybe 2 LR's even at 2500. I do face a Manticore on occasion but against my nids I face the exterminator a lot. That is one nasty anti-nid tank although the problem with LR's is that if all you ever want to fire is the main cannon and nothing else you won't be moving it.

A stationary tank with no infantry support is a dead tank.

That is actually the biggest gripe of one of the IG players. His tanks got to shoot a lot more but he thinks the hitting on rear armor thing is BS. He hates moving his tanks because it cuts down shooting and he runs mech so it's not always possible to surround his tanks with bodies.

Fateweaver wrote:See, that is where my nid army personally suffered little. At 2500 I face a single LR, every other tank/transport is armor 10 in the ass or in the case of rhinos no higher than 11 so even devourers do wonders for my army.

Against IG I face maybe 2 LR's even at 2500. I do face a Manticore on occasion but against my nids I face the exterminator a lot. That is one nasty anti-nid tank although the problem with LR's is that if all you ever want to fire is the main cannon and nothing else you won't be moving it.

A stationary tank with no infantry support is a dead tank.

That is actually the biggest gripe of one of the IG players. His tanks got to shoot a lot more but he thinks the hitting on rear armor thing is BS. He hates moving his tanks because it cuts down shooting and he runs mech so it's not always possible to surround his tanks with bodies.

It sounds like in your meta, your players don't like to spend money on tanks. I can relate to that. However, I no longer run less than 3 Leman Russes in my IG lists, and my regular opponent frequents the use of Battlewagons (and the DH player in my local group has been known to pillbox with 2 or 3 landraiders, depending on the size of the game.) We also contend with space marine armor and Chaos land raiders, but those are less frequent. I don't see how I am going to NOT have to field 3+ zoeys at 1500+ games.

If you want Genestealers to fight Orks, just give them toxin sacs. The I bonus that furious charge grants you is redundant, and the 3+ to wound for one turn is worse than a rerollable 4+(with possible new rends) every round. It's really, really good.

sourclams wrote:
*not impossible, or even all that rare, but unless against GKs or certain deviant Chaos builds it's unlikely to face off against multiple Raiders in 1750.

Are you calling me a deviant?

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:

Fateweaver wrote:See, that is where my nid army personally suffered little. At 2500 I face a single LR, every other tank/transport is armor 10 in the ass or in the case of rhinos no higher than 11 so even devourers do wonders for my army.

Against IG I face maybe 2 LR's even at 2500. I do face a Manticore on occasion but against my nids I face the exterminator a lot. That is one nasty anti-nid tank although the problem with LR's is that if all you ever want to fire is the main cannon and nothing else you won't be moving it.

A stationary tank with no infantry support is a dead tank.

That is actually the biggest gripe of one of the IG players. His tanks got to shoot a lot more but he thinks the hitting on rear armor thing is BS. He hates moving his tanks because it cuts down shooting and he runs mech so it's not always possible to surround his tanks with bodies.

It sounds like in your meta, your players don't like to spend money on tanks. I can relate to that. However, I no longer run less than 3 Leman Russes in my IG lists, and my regular opponent frequents the use of Battlewagons (and the DH player in my local group has been known to pillbox with 2 or 3 landraiders, depending on the size of the game.) We also contend with space marine armor and Chaos land raiders, but those are less frequent. I don't see how I am going to NOT have to field 3+ zoeys at 1500+ games.

He can field 8 LR's if he'd like, he also has 8 Chimeras so usually I'll face 5 or 6 squads in Chimeras and maybe 2 or 3 Russ'. He hates to squadron due to the immobile becomes wrecked rule. In Apoc he takes all his tanks + a baneblade but until my Nids get to at least 8k points I wont need to worry about 16+ tanks just from his army.

My meta doesn't hurt my nids, it in fact only makes them better. I look forward to running 60+ stealers at 2500pts.

I'm thinking that Adrenal Gargoyles might be useful for 7 points, especially when coupled with Prefered Enemy. 15 of them on the charge (not counting shooting) kill 5 Marines which isn't too bad.

EDIT: I fail at math.

Gornall wrote:I'm thinking that Adrenal Gargoyles might be useful for 8 points, especially when coupled with Prefered Enemy. 15 of them on the charge (not counting shooting) kill 5 Termies.

You might want to look at your numbers again. Blinding Poison does not ignore saves. You would need a full squad of 30 to wipe out 5 Terminators.

15 Gargoyles (w/ TS & AG) will kill .63 Terminators with Fleshbores and then charge and kill 2.08 more.