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Aduro wrote:The Hormagaunts and Gargoyles are in it for pretty much the same reason... I like the figs. If I were to trade em for anything, it would probably be Venomthropes, for the same reason, but I want to make it nice and swarmy.

Thats what I like to hear, I think you and me will get along just fine

Haven't tested Venomthropes out, but I like everything about them. I'll make them work!

I think deathleaper is


OH look, for a measily 140 points I can drop your leadership by a whopping 3 in a third of the games we play. In another third it will be a slight loss, and in the final third its laughable.
BUT WAIT THERES MORE
It can also show up, and stare at you from the trees, making you uncomfortable until joe with the flamer comes up and roasts it alive.

That's right, you better be careful what you say about him, he'll hear you and come after you.

@I grappled the shoggoth:

I think you are underestimating the deathleaper a little bit. Combined with shadow in the warp he makes psykers nigh useless (except eldar with runes). Remember that Wolf priests have LD9, not 10 like regular marines.

Also he has 3 wounds so it's not like 1 flamer is gonna toast him. And if he goes to ground after shooting his flesh hooks that's just fine...remove at the beginning of your next turn.

He is an opportunist. Take advantage of that unprotected firebase/transport/squad and hit them. If they fire back it's probably gonna take a lot to actually finish him off.

Rune priests are LD 10 I believe. And it only lasts while he is alive.

Not to mention 50% of the time any squad wanting to shoot him won't see him beyond 10.5" (night fight roll divided by 2).

Sure he has a 6" range on his hooks but bring him on in cover, shoot a target of opportunity with hooks and if you played him right he'll stick around until back up arrives.

It WHAT?!

Seriously, it goes away once he's dead? I'm DELIGHTED to hear that!

Really, I played a game with a guy who had his codex next to him the whole time and he was telling me it was LD9.

If you are worried about Deathleaper surviving put him right at back in area terrain. With his super night fight rules no-one outside of 18" has a chance to hit him...At all (well barrage weapons do).

Like I said, good luck killing him.

Maybe 20-30 orks or 5 thunderhammer termies will pop him.

Maybe 10 lootas or 5 HB devs but anyone putting him down where he can be shot like that deserves to lose him.

Fateweaver wrote:Like I said, good luck killing him.

Maybe 20-30 orks or 5 thunderhammer termies will pop him.

Maybe 10 lootas or 5 HB devs but anyone putting him down where he can be shot like that deserves to lose him.

This. Why choose to put him within charge range of all those shock troops? Except, say, to get them to wander in the opposite direction to where the main attack is coming from, rolling 1D6 for terrain and thus failing the charge, only for three Dakkafexes to drop pod in around them and kill a 250pt unit whilst Leaper buggers off and reappears next turn on top of those five Scouts with the Sniper Rifles.

Only one fex can take a pod, and then the dakkafexes themselves are hardly as cheap as they used to be. If you're spending ~740 points to kill a 250 point unit it's probably a gross misapplication of force.

Some of us would call it overkill. Or in the words of that guy from quake...HUMILIATION

The best way to pound your opponent is overkill.

You bring 200pts to fight 200pts you might lose 25% of that leaving you with 150 to fight the next 200pt unit you come across.

Hit someone with 400pts you might get down to 350pts to hit a second 200pt squad with bringing you down to 300 to hit a 3rd squad.

This is assuming of course both units are full strength. Why hit with "just enough" when you can hit with enough to make them cry?

It was like the Vikings/Cowboys game. Vikings could have ended the game 27-3 and still won but they had momentum and confidence and wanted to twist the dagger they had stuck Dallas with so they went for the TD and got it; not only won but humiliated the Cowboys.

I have now started thinking about the competitive lists that have been put up. How would they fare against footslogging orks with killa kans? It seems to me that there is far too much anti tank and not enough anti infantry in the lists. Of course knocking out the kans isn't the main problem, but getting rid of that many orks is.

The Alpha Warrior is BS4.

G

uhhhhhh charge them with gaunts?

"hi we hit on 4s with re-rolls and wound on 4's with re-rolls. Make 33 armour saves."

Poisoned Hormagaunts solve so many problems, it's crazy.

Lukus83 wrote:I have now started thinking about the competitive lists that have been put up. How would they fare against footslogging orks with killa kans? It seems to me that there is far too much anti tank and not enough anti infantry in the lists. Of course knocking out the kans isn't the main problem, but getting rid of that many orks is.

Supergants flat out annihilate units of Orks. If 30 Supergants charge into a unit of 30 orks, this is what happens:

Gants go first at I5.
60 attacks hitting on 4s (or 3s if the unit got hit with Paroxyism) and rerolling misses = 45 hits (on 4s) or 53 hits (on 3s)
Wound on 4s with rerolls to wound from poison = 33.5 wounds (on 4s) or 39 wounds (on 3s)
6+ saves on the orks = 28 dead Orks (on 4s) or 32.5 dead orks (on 3s).

Or how about 25 Hormagants with Toxin Sacs and Furious Charge:
75 attacks hitting on 4s (or 3s if Paroxyism) = 37.5 hits (on 4s) or 50 hits (on 3s)
Wounds on 4s rerolling wounds from poison = 28.125 wounds (on 4s) or 32.5 wounds (on 3s)
6+ saves on the Orks = 23 dead Orks (on 4s) or 27 dead orks (on 3s)

Also Swarmlord + Tyrant Guard = dead Nobz. Lots of them.

Hive Guard and Trannofexes can do decent damage to the Kan Walls on the way in as well. The danger is that surviving Kans/Dreadz butcher your Gants in combat, so you have to make sure they aren't able to charge your Gants.

When it comes to Orks, I'm much more scared of 5 Battlewagons full of goodies than I am of hordes/Kanwall. This is because my troops eat Ork Troops pretty easily, and with my MCs and Hiveguard I can deal with the Kand/Dreads when the gap closes as well.

I think you're making a rather large assumption that the gants will get the charge on the orks. With the Waagh!, the Orks are pretty good about dictating the first clash. Not to mention you're facing 18 blast markers and probably around 120-180 shots from the shootas, which I'm not sending at anything but your gants, cause silly rabbit, PKs are for MC.

Granted you can weather that fairly well with FNP, but it's still going to make a dent, and throw the mad dok into the leading squad of boyz for FNP of their own.

And why would I send a Nob squad anywhere near anything with a bone sword or strength 8+? That's what hidden PKs are for, while Nobz run rough shod over your Tervigons.

Now, yes, I think if gants get the charge they can put a world of hurt on a normal ork squad. But I'm just saying, it's a highly situational answer.

@Kroot Loops

They get counter attack. So what you just read happens if you charge them too. It's what makes them so gross.

And Hive Guard make a joke of your can wall (and outrange them).

Hmm. 180 Shoota shots? 60 hits, 40 wounds, 20 Feel No Pain roles, 20 dead Termagants. That's gotta hurt!

I would hope 3 squads of Boyz Shooting would wipe out a squad of Termagants. And that's not even for certain if you have cover in the equation.

Hulksmash wrote:@Kroot Loops

They get counter attack. So what you just read happens if you charge them too. It's what makes them so gross.

And Hive Guard make a joke of your can wall (and outrange them).

But with counter attack they do not get furious charge (as per the newly modified SW FAQ), which means they do not re-roll wounds (due to being str 3 versus T 4), which takes a lot of their punch away.

Hive guard are nasty, but the kans still have 4+ cover saves from the KFF, and i think they only out range them by 6"

Kroot Loops wrote:I think you're making a rather large assumption that the gants will get the charge on the orks. With the Waagh!, the Orks are pretty good about dictating the first clash. Not to mention you're facing 18 blast markers and probably around 120-180 shots from the shootas, which I'm not sending at anything but your gants, cause silly rabbit, PKs are for MC.
Now, yes, I think if gants get the charge they can put a world of hurt on a normal ork squad. But I'm just saying, it's a highly situational answer.

It all comes down to tactics and terrain. The Tervigon will be protected by a gaunt screen making it difficult for your Nobs to get through. With Counter-assault Gaunts will probably get the bonus attacks irrelevant of who actually charged. Orcs are only I2-3 so will be hitting second whoever charged. Now that Furious Charge does not work on Counter-Assault not getting the Poison reroll will hurt. I think the Orcs are actually better off staying in there deployment zone and shooting. They need to get the numbers down before they can charge.

Kroot Loops wrote:Hive guard are nasty, but the kans still have 4+ cover saves from the KFF, and i think they only out range them by 6"

Do they? They are not in base contact with it. I am not sure how these two rules interact...

A unit of Venomthropes could really screw up the Orks, and give Deathleaper something to do with himself after seeing his LD nerf go to waste. 1D6 difficult terrain, with 16% casualties on every charge before it hits and loss of bonus charge attacks... though by the way I read the RAW, def grenades don't deny FC bonuses.

Also, let's not forget that Waaagh or no Waaagh, Hormagaunts with MTC and super fleet are still more able to choose who charges first.

Edit: once the Trukks have been popped, like

Lyracian wrote:

Kroot Loops wrote:Hive guard are nasty, but the kans still have 4+ cover saves from the KFF, and i think they only out range them by 6"

Do they? They are not in base contact with it. I am not sure how these two rules interact...

vehicles within 6" of the KFF get concealment, but not from something that the living amunition could fly around. Essentiallly it's like area terrain for vehicles. As a Tau player, I know Hive Guard are just a stronger form of the Smart Missile System for Tau, and they're nice, but they can't ignore things like KFF and Dpods

Hoping you don't mind me posting here Mahu but it's a good place for discussion. I played a game late last night but was to tired to put up a report. I noticed you said your friend had advised you to try Devourers on your Fex so i thought I would try that out.

Here's the list(1500pts)

HT ( Life Leech, Paroxysm, Old Adversy, Hive Commander, 2+ Save
TG x15
Tervigon (Catalyst, Adrenal, Toxin, Crushing Claws)
HG(Toxin) x20
Zoanthropes(Spod)x2
T'Fex(Rupture Cannon)
Fex( MC Devourers, Spod, Bio Plasma)
GS x10

So what are my thoughts after the first game? i think the whole army works best know when it works as a team, for example I put my Genestealers on my own and all though they destroyed and unit of trukk boys they don't really like a large unit of Shoota Boyz. if the Tervigon was near them i could off put FNP on them and allowed the TG to take bullets. The TG did brilliantly however destroying about 30 Orks between them (+ babies). The Tervigon was vital to keeping my Tyrant alive lets jus say tyrants don't like Lootas's. The T'Fex and Fex where the stars of the show with the Fex taking out about 2 trukks and a unit of Nobz and T'Fex taking out a BW. Sadly the zoanthropes failed me by not coming in until Turn 4, and then causing a single would or armour pen for the rest of the game. Spods are brilliant! They single handedly held up the Warboss and his nobs so he couldn't get to my Fex. In this moments my Tyrant, Fex and HG charged and lets say turned the tide. Game was Annhilation, deployment Dawn of War, he was cursed from the start when i destroyed his BW leaving his Nobs and WB stranded and obliterating his unit of Trukk Boys, coupling with some awful reserve rolls, allowed to cross the board unmolested. Final Score: Orks:6 Nids:11

So I lost 2 units of babies, my Spods, Zoanthropes and GS.

Devourers on Fex's are great Mahu, podding them at the back of Rhino's will mean you won't need HG! Try them out if you haven't already with that new list of yours. You'll be pleasently suprised

Lukus83 wrote:Really, I played a game with a guy who had his codex next to him the whole time and he was telling me it was LD9.

If you are worried about Deathleaper surviving put him right at back in area terrain. With his super night fight rules no-one outside of 18" has a chance to hit him...At all (well barrage weapons do).

Broadsides with Black Sun Filter. Tau Battle suits get a reroll. Marker light hits, followed by seeker missles. Marker light hits negating nightfighting rules for units firing.

How many Tau players take blacksun filters? And MLs on Deatherleaper instead of MCs... yes please!

It's nice to see people are finally start to realize the full power of the new Nids.

G