Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I hope they make Tyranids "worse", rather than "better" in the upcoming codex. Really I just want them to add more character to the army. Winning a game of toy soldiers is so much more rewarding when you don't feel like your win was cheaply derived from rule exploitations and/or the product of "we need these models to sell so lets give them godly stats".

Games Workshop will not do that, though. I don't see why anyone is worried; their number one priority in every event is to make money, in the short term or in the long term. Either way, releasing models that people will want is mostly how it's done, and other than "super cool sculpts", which cost a pretty penny for GW itself, they can simply improve the rules/stats for already existing product so they sell more.

Some very obvious observations:
-Expect much better/different Biovores & Spore Mines
-Same for Raveners
-I wouldn't expect as much the same for Lictors, just because they have enough "cool factor" to capture the hearts of many little ones new to the hobby despite how well they perform on the table top. Hell, they make me giddy too.
-Most Tyranid players have more than enough Hive Tyrants, and, especially, Carnifexes. I rather doubt the stats for either of these units will improve much at all, and may actually get worse, simply because they themselves are point sinks, and if you decide not to play said point sinks, well, that's many more GW models you're buying to fill the gap.


To the gentleman who brought the Olympics into this: I do not think that point is necessary. Even if a given person does not have much experience in the 40k Tournament Scene, they can still express a valuable opinion, legitimate concerns, and interesting points, such as you have done yourself. I have no experience in the Olympics, does this mean you will much lessen the value you place on my words when speaking of tournaments of various nature?

Not what I was getting at. I was stating that SOME posters feel their opinion on a codex holds more weight BECAUSE they play in a tournament vs playing for fun.

What they feel is right or wrong has nothing to do with tournament experience, it has to do with the fact that all the posters who have called me illogical strike me as WAAC players and therefore there logic for saying the codex is garbage is not relevant to me as I and other casual gamers have pointed out the codex does fine in a non-competitive nature.

I enjoy winning but I don't need an updated codex to do it and I don't need people who play competitively telling me that they are right and I am wrong but sadly that is the vibe I get in any forum in any thread dealing with tactics or codex release threads.

Over on Warseer people are already picking apart the SW codex as far as tournament competitiveness goes and for feth sakes it's not even out for another month. It's no damn wonder GW has all but stopped revealing anything new (and yes, I for one am glad they have).

Fateweaver wrote:but sadly that is the vibe I get in any forum in any thread dealing with tactics or codex release threads.

You're going to alienate a lot of fellow forum members with comments like that... just because a person plays competitively does not mean he or she is your enemy, especially in an online forum designed for constructive conversation (well, usually hehe).

I agree with your point, now that I understand it better. But their opinion certainly still holds weight, as does yours. There is no need to devalue each other's opinions...

I didn't say a tournament WAAC players opinion holds LESS weight, I said it doesn't hold any MORE weight than a casual gamers.

Winning is good and I wouldn't mind seeing some new rules for most of the 'nid codex. Not because they need them but because new rules means new ways of making an army, new tactics and new ways to foil your opponent. If some units end up OP the WAAC'ers (hehe) will find it; if it's garbage they will find it. I, on the other hand, do not care if a Lictor for 80 pts can kill 80pts worth Spezz Mahrines 50/50. I love the model, I love the fluff behind it and if it becomes better in the new codex than it's a bonus for me; if it remains as worthless (based on popular opinion) it will STILL remain in my army for the reasons I mentioned.

All my armies I ever owned were based on theme or model looks, not rules or effectiveness. I don't spend hours mathhammering units to see what works best. If I'm going to spend 100's of hours a month tweaking the list using numbers I'll become an accountant and at least get paid for pushing buttons on a calculator and risking carpal tunnel pushing a pen all day.

So yeah, bring on the next codex. Not because 'nids NEED it but because I want the new models that will surely come with it.

Mr. Bombadidaloo wrote:I hope they make Tyranids "worse", rather than "better" in the upcoming codex.

The only way they could do that would be to make it so genestealers can't score.

Broken Loose wrote:

Mr. Bombadidaloo wrote:I hope they make Tyranids "worse", rather than "better" in the upcoming codex.

The only way they could do that would be to make it so genestealers can't score.

Wow, I so won't even touch that quote as I'll probably get warned or flamed (or both).

Fateweaver wrote:Wow, I so won't even touch that quote as I'll probably get warned or flamed (or both).

It's quite true and not sarcastic. With the advent of "Troops only" 5th edition scoring, that leaves us with:

Gaunts, who cannot score unless they are in Synapse range or pass a Ld5 test.
Hormagaunts, who cannot score unless they are in Synapse range or pass a Ld5 test.
Rippers, who cannot score on account of being Mindless and also on account of being swarms.
Genestealers, who function normally.

In most cases, the phrase "Ld5 test" means that you lost combat by about 3-5 wounds and you're about to break. In fact, you only have a 27.8% chance of succeeding that roll. In other words, half of our troops score only 27.8% of the time without outside help.

Secondly, Synapse range requires warriors, zoanthropes, or hive tyrants to be within 12 inches of them at the end of the game. Warriors are T4 with at most a 4+ armor save (which is absolutely terrible for an HQ, even Ork HQs get invulnerables or FNP). Zoanthropes are easy to single out because they're single-model units that aren't ICs (so they can't spread wounds). Tyrants suffer from a lack of invulnerable saves (6+ does not count under any circumstances), a lack of cover saves (unless you have guards), and a severe case of bullet magnetism (being the deadliest models on the field more often than not)... a tyrant will usually be the first targetted model on your side if the enemy has a choice.

So, 3 out of our 4 troops can't score, leaving us on par with Necrons (having 1 scoring unit in the codex). Of course, Necrons have that whole 3+ armor and 4+ WBB thing, so if they sit on an objective they'll actually hold it instead of crumpling to bolters or heavy bolters. Units that actually have higher odds of passing saves than failing them? Fancy that! I know they're rather common in non-xenos armies, but it's a bit of a pain to have to accept bolter bait as our only choice of capturing objectives.

4th edition was fantastic in this case because that limitation was removed. When fexes could hold objectives, Nidzilla was the most annoying army in the game. Even if they were quite fragile considering their price, warriors could hold down a fort for 6 turns while things went to hell around them. That's already gone, that job is already done. All we have left are genestealers.

@BL: It's not so bad, in that those units still contest down to the last model. If you've got a Fex and he's got a Trooper on the Objective, nobody scores it.

I'd expect Nids to get quite a bit cheaper in line with their 5E+ usefulness, similar to Orks.

I score with gaunts plenty fine. Have never had a problem not having enough synapse.

Well, this thread certainly went downhill.

Indeed.

I've been popping corn on the flames mmm pop corn

I brought gram crackers, Hershey's Chocolate, and marshmallows. Somebody find us some sticks!

So, in short, no real rumors, just a 20-page off-topic thread?

Crazy_Carnifex wrote:So, in short, no real rumors, just a 20-page off-topic thread?

pretty much . . . want some pop corn?

Crazy_Carnifex wrote:So, in short, no real rumors, just a 20-page off-topic thread?

Did you read the thread? There are geniune rumors in here.

I suggest to shut down this thread.
Some contributions were quite interesting if it were a thread about the codex update.

Or we could just have those people who went way off topic start a new thread that's actually about what they're talking about. I know it's a radical idea but it just might work.

Agamemnon2 wrote:I'm torn. On one side, I'd like to see tyranids buffed. On another, I'd like it if not every single army in the game completely outclassed the IG by a staggering margin.

You are complaining about... IG? The NEW IG? One of the strongest books in 40k?

Really?

Maybe it's not number ONE, but I'm pretty sure it's not outclassed by anything.

FlammingGaunt wrote:Or we could just have those people who went way off topic start a new thread that's actually about what they're talking about. I know it's a radical idea but it just might work.

Sounds too radical.
Some seem to be more interested speculations than in proposing a new codex.

number9dream wrote:You are complaining about... IG? The NEW IG? One of the strongest books in 40k?

Really?

Maybe it's not number ONE, but I'm pretty sure it's not outclassed by anything.

It wouldn't be a Dakka thread if somebody didn't complain about IG being underpowered.

RustyKnight wrote:

Crazy_Carnifex wrote:So, in short, no real rumors, just a 20-page off-topic thread?

Did you read the thread? There are geniune rumors in here.

Not only that, but the Tyranid Battleforce is no longer available from GW. That's a good sign of am impending codex.

puma713 wrote:

RustyKnight wrote:

Crazy_Carnifex wrote:So, in short, no real rumors, just a 20-page off-topic thread?

Did you read the thread? There are geniune rumors in here.

Not only that, but the Tyranid Battleforce is no longer available from GW. That's a good sign of am impending codex.

That sounds like a good reason not to shut down this thread.

It could just be a repackaging. When some of the Dark Eldar kits went unavailable some people thought that it meant the Dark Eldar were coming back. All that happened was they started selling the old wyches and stuff in newer boxes.

But there is already a large mountain of evidence that the Tyranids are coming out so...

Well, the theory is that plastic gargoyles are coming out (as been the plan "an edition or two down the line" since Andy Chambers' 3rd edition redesign), and since all the newer battleforces have HS choices replaced with FA choices, the Nid battleforce as we know it may actually be gone for good.

It's a little early to pull the battleforce and codex, but only by a month or two.

They must not want people to be able to capitalize on the fairly good deal that the current battleforce gives when they can get people to spend more for less when the newer one comes out.

Railguns wrote:

But there is already a large mountain of evidence that the Tyranids are coming out so...

Would you mind summarizing that mountain of evidence for me? So I don't have to read 20 pages of speculation? Eldar and 'Nids are my two choice armies (although I do play IG's right now) and I'd love to see them revived with new vigor.

A big part of the speculation not to long ago was the reveal of Trygon models that didn't match the forgeworld production models in the armies of Phil Kelly and the guy from Hive Fleet Moloch. Moloch has a bit of clout with the developers as far as Tyranids go(as seen by the current codex showing of some of his models) and Phil Kelly is a big Tyranid enthusiast in the studio. Pictures of these things came out at about the same time that it was rumoured that a plastic Trygon was coming. Considering the obviously different models it seemed all but confirmed.

Yay!

More codexs getting re-done while DE get told to move over again!

Railguns wrote:A big part of the speculation not to long ago was the reveal of Trygon models that didn't match the forgeworld production models in the armies of Phil Kelly and the guy from Hive Fleet Moloch. Moloch has a bit of clout with the developers as far as Tyranids go(as seen by the current codex showing of some of his models) and Phil Kelly is a big Tyranid enthusiast in the studio. Pictures of these things came out at about the same time that it was rumoured that a plastic Trygon was coming. Considering the obviously different models it seemed all but confirmed.

There's also an intriguing quote in WD356. In the "Let the Games Commence" section of the "Between a Rok and a Hard Place" article, about how "the good guys sportingly let", Phil Kelly use his Trygon, "throughout the campaign". (p54)

Just sayin'...

Vale,

JohnS