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Im going to lay my bet on the orks, for in there codex it states that the Imperium sent out probes 15,000 years ago and to this day they are receiving faint transmissions of, guess what! Orks

-Loki- wrote:
Which makes me think - since the Tyranids basically counteract the warp, and to not use it in any way at all like the species of this galaxy - like for travel (they use narvhals to slingshot themselves with a planets gravity or travel at sublight speeds), or psychic powers (they simply use telekinesis, and don't interact with the warp for this, or drive them with the focused thoughts of the hive mind), they could be a race that figured out how Chaos works, and evolved themselves to this point to simply rid the universe of Chaos. If there's no one left to feed them with their emotions, there would be no Chaos gods left.

This is a common mis-conception based on the new Codex. The text you are thinking of states that the Tyranids do not use the Warp "in any fathomable way", which is very different to "do not use the Warp, full stop".

The Tyranids do interract with the Warp. Their psychic powers are still Warp-based. Their communication is Warp-based. Zoanthropes hurl Warp energy. It is simply... different... from anything native to this galaxy.

"Tyranids are not a Warp-based species" because of that quote is this season's "C'tan are instantly destroyed by the Warp" because of the internet taking and running with the word "anathema".

I think tyranids are very warp based, but not related to chaos. The hive mind is probably something like a warp deity, just not a chaos god like Gork n Mork and the eldar gods. So perhaps the hive mind can block the psychic shenanigans of those who draw power from other warp gods/sources.

In the case of invasion the hive mind overpowers the astronomicon (I think this is what happens). I guess if you think of the astronomicon and the hive mind as warp entities, then when the shadow of the warp is in effect its like the hive mind is having a psychic battle with the astronomicon, and winning.

asimo77 wrote:I think tyranids are very warp based, but not related to chaos. The hive mind is probably something like a warp deity, just not a chaos god like Gork n Mork and the eldar gods. So perhaps the hive mind can block the psychic shenanigans of those who draw power from other warp gods/sources.

In the case of invasion the hive mind overpowers the astronomicon (I think this is what happens). I guess if you think of the astronomicon and the hive mind as warp entities, then when the shadow of the warp is in effect its like the hive mind is having a psychic battle with the astronomicon, and winning.

Warp entity isn't quite the right phrase to use for the Hive Mind, but you're definitely on the right track here. The Hive Mind is a sentience that emerges from the collected communications and intelligences inside the Tyranid Synapse web.

The best analogy for it is amusingly enough drawn from Terminator 3 - the communication and integration between all the software across the internet becomes so deep and complicated that it comes "alive", just as "we" are actually just the result of the incredibly complex systems making up our bodies.

This is completely unlike the Chaos Gods, Gork & Mork etc though. Those Warp entities exist because the Warp is reflecting the emotional states of the psychic races native to this galaxy. The Hive Mind on the other hand isn't a reflection - it literally emerges from the Tyranids' collected minds. In that respect, the Tyranids are a lot more closely tied to the Warp than any other race in the setting, and you could make a very strong argument that the Tyranid super-organism straddles both this dimension and the Warp at the same time.

I think the last races standing would be the tyranids and necrons. Why? Because the necrons cant kill all the tyranids, and cause the tyranids can't eat the necrons.

Tyranids.

They come from ANOTHER Galaxy.

Just for the simple fact that if the Milky Way just imploded and everything in it died, Tyranids would still be alive somewhere else.

Tyranids, without a doubt.

They will consume the netire galaxy, and then find another one.

The Ctan will be left with no souls (or is it misery?) to devour, so will die.

The Chaos Gods will have no mortal emotions to substain themselves, so will also die.

Everyone else will be devoured.

I mean, if you want to go as fluff as written, even GW has said that Tyranids will be in the main rulebook, unless the races of the galaxy unite against them. Which we know won't happen.

I don't understand what you mean by that. All the races are in the main rulebook.

I think he meant is that they will be last ones standing in the rulebook.

I agree with the Tyranids winning and moving on to yet another galaxy.

Whether the Necrons will still be somewhat alive and kicking, I don't really know. But at least there will have had their revenge.

I'm pretty sure the Alpha Legion has already won, actually

Probably nids kill this universe, move on to the next, adn necrons stay.

Tyranids have to, ultimately, be the victors. For one, they possess the extraordinary ability to evolve at speeds before unimaginable. This means they can easily out-evolve any race in the galaxy, which has always been what deciding the fittest is. Y'know. Survival of the fittest.

Also, they can mass produce warriors and monsters with genetically bound fighting instincts and capabilities. This allows them to deploy troops at a more efficient rate than most other races, save perhaps for some Orks, by not having the need for rigorous or even simple training. They are born killing machines. See the word. Killing.

The tactics Tyranids use are obviously well thought up. Not necessarily thought OUT, but well thought up. Which brings me to another advantage. When a change of tactics is needed. No race can accomplish an interplanetary change of tactics in a matter of mere seconds, aside from the Tyranids. Which also brings me to yet another advantage.

The Hive mind. The calibration of an entire race's minds is possibly the largest advantage of all. Troops know exactly what to do and how to do it as soon as the Hive Mind decides it. Even when they're in completely different solar systems or even entire Segmentums. This allows for extreme coordination when executing plans or tactics. The Hive Mind also allows Tyranids to entrap the inhabitants of an area and cut them off from the rest of their people, biting out a chunk of the Galaxy.

They can also easily create armies of vast sizes by eating the life off a planet. They use that biological matter to increase their army size. The more they kill, the bigger they get.

Lastly, no one really knows how many Tyranids there are. There could be more fleets outside the galactic brim, larger than any encountered before. And with more dangerous species. Though mere speculation, this would just as well be only a mere helping hand, speeding the inevitable devouring of this galaxy.

The Great Devourer is upon us. It has begun to feed.

Let me take back what I said...

If the Tyranids are going to use the current codex, then there is no way they can win...

I thought the new codex made them more dynamic and adaptive rather than just throw nids at enemy, make new nids and throw them at the enemy.

Mr Nobody wrote:Oh god, I hate tau haters.

Tau's technology is advancing at an accelerated pace, one day, they will advance technologically further than the imperium, and it's not far away.

The biggest reason I dont think the Tau will win is there numbers, the Tau represent one of the many fledging Alien Empires dotted across the universe which the Imperium simply hasnt squashed yet. I also feel that their arrogance and naivety will be there downfall, their making deals with factions who they have no idea what their agenda is and they have the nerve to treat the older races like poor stupid children.

With that said Im a big Tau fan, they were my first army and I love the fluff. But I in no way think that they will come out on top in all of this, unless the Imperium suffers some terrible Fall like the Eldar Empire before them and the Tau move in, then it might be a different story.

I never meant it as a winning argument, merely a counter to someone else's overly negative comment.

Ailaros wrote:actually, another thing with the tyranid. They only consume, they never produce.

Human expansion is limited to the amount of food we can produce. Tyranid treat food like the western world treats oil. Tyranid show up, eat everything until it's a barren rock and then move on without planting new biomass to come by and harvest later. This means that Tyranid as a race will experience "peak biomass". After that point, the amount of biomass will go down as it becomes more scarce, making it impossible to sustain the same size of tyranid force. Eventually they will dwindle to numbers so low that they will be easily destroyable by the few human agri-world PDF's remaining. In the end, humans will outlast tyranid until they basically annihilate themselves, and humanity will finish the last few vestiges of them off.

If the Tyranid travel between galaxies and have finished off multiple galaxies before this one I highly doubt they do not know what to do in a food shortage situation. I would even go as far as saying if a tyranid is near death or is getting old (not sure if old age effects them or not) I can imagine the hive mind would have it turned to biomass by rippers for the creation of a new 'nid.

Tyrnaids recycle everything, making them extremely efficient as long as they keep momemtum.

And there is nothing to recycle if the Necrons decide to kill them.
Nids have a unknown number of fleets, but maybe the hints of their 'ships' age may be worth considering.
As I did not encounter any story with NEW tyranid vessels....
so they may suffer from casualties there like everyone else.

Hive ships can somtimes give birth to new ships, though losing a ship is still a heavy blow to Tyrnaids.

But Hive ships are the only 'shipyard' they have. Losing them = reproduction is zero.
Would like to ask for an example of a new Hive Ship. You know, the capital ones, not the easy to replace little critters.

There's some in depth fluff about how hive ships "calf". When they have enough bio-matter they divide in two.

1hadhq wrote:And there is nothing to recycle if the Necrons decide to kill them.

Necrons are made up of metal, which can be broken down into its raw minerals for use.

1hadhq wrote:Nids have a unknown number of fleets, but maybe the hints of their 'ships' age may be worth considering.

They cross the inter-galactic void. The war in heaven wouldn't have even started before they started crossing from whatever galaxy they came from. Even if they do age, what little time they spend consuming this galaxy would be minute compared to the time it takes to cross to another galaxy at sublight speeds. I don't think them dying of old age is ever a way to victory.

1hadhq wrote:As I did not encounter any story with NEW tyranid vessels....
so they may suffer from casualties there like everyone else.

Their ships are the same kind of organisms as everything else. If they couldn't be grown and replaced, the Tyranids would have been defeated long ago.

-Loki- wrote:


They cross the inter-galactic void. The war in heaven wouldn't have even started before they started crossing from whatever galaxy they came from. Even if they do age, what little time they spend consuming this galaxy would be minute compared to the time it takes to cross to another galaxy at sublight speeds. I don't think them dying of old age is ever a way to victory.

If they couldn't be grown and replaced, the Tyranids would have been defeated long ago.

I am not considering to suggest to hide until they die of age as a tactic, but one thing is common: these Hive ships are old. Not new.
So maybe it takes a lot of time to replace them? If so, opponnents with potent weapons and superior space drives could focus on the Hive Ships and
play this hit and run game until the nids lack production capacities to keep their major strength: respawning .
Fleet based reproduction is mobile, but not without drawbacks. Planet based production may be secured deeply underneath and safe from interruption.
A ship has full 3D attack vectors against it.

I think that War in Heaven possibly took place in the other galaxies because Necron Codex says that Old Ones inter-galactic network was disrupted.
So Necron for possible win.

extra galactic would be other galaxies. Inter galactic means within the milky way

asimo77 wrote:extra galactic would be other galaxies. Inter galactic means within the milky way

No,intra galactic means inside galaxy.

Oh my bad, though wouldn't extra-galactic be other galaxies not inter/intra?