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davethepak wrote:

On that note, can anyone confirm the weapon choices for the fliers?
(can they get las cannons?).

Oh, and if not, please send the complaints to the tau empire...

The Lascannons are actually the standard load out, the Megabolter is a free exchange for them.

Got to read the whole book yesterday.

 Platuan4th wrote:

davethepak wrote:

On that note, can anyone confirm the weapon choices for the fliers?
(can they get las cannons?).

Oh, and if not, please send the complaints to the tau empire...

The Lascannons are actually the standard load out, the Megabolter is a free exchange for them.

Got to read the whole book yesterday.

Thank you very much. Could you give me a suggestion as to the strength of the megabolter?
(say about the same as a what other kind of weapon?).

Would it be possible to have some information on the new Strange looking heavy support Land speeder?

Armors, weapon choices?
Are they fast skimmers?

davethepak wrote:

On that note, can anyone confirm the weapon choices for the fliers?
(can they get las cannons?).

The Nephilim (180) has a TL HB, TL LC, 6 Blacksword Missiles. LC can be replaced with the megabolter. Has Missile Lock, Strafing Run, Unrelenting Hunter special rules.

The Dark Talon (160) has 2 HB, Rift Cannon, Stasis Bomb. No replacement options. Has Hover Strike special rule.

Mega Bolter is 48"S6AP4 heavy 5

Rift Cannon is 18" S5 AP- 1 shot, small blast, blind


Automatically Appended Next Post:

paqman wrote:
Would it be possible to have some information on the new Strange looking heavy support Land speeder?

Armors, weapon choices?
Are they fast skimmers?

The Darkshroud is Fast attack 80pts, Vengeance is Heavy Support 140pts. Both have heavy bolter than can be replaced with AC. Both Deepstrike, Darkshroud has scouts and shrouded, makes other units in 6" have stealth. Vengeance has the plasma storm (3 small blast plasma or one large)

Both are fast skimmers, AV10 all around 2 HP

tidalwake wrote:


The Darkshroud is Fast attack 80pts, Vengeance is Heavy Support 140pts. Both have heavy bolter than can be replaced with AC. Both Deepstrike, Darkshroud has scouts and shrouded, makes other units in 6" have stealth. Vengeance has the plasma storm (3 small blast plasma or one large)

Both are fast skimmers, AV10 all around 2 HP

Thanks
Mmmm, they seem very interesting... man! I can't believe I will have to build these contraptions

Also I have one of each of the new models except finecast, only got Belial there. One thing I will say after looking over every kit and building the vengeance is that it looks better in person than it does in any of the pictures. That is not to say it is a great looking model, but it just seems to work when you see it in 3D.

Also another blanket statement, there are lots of options in all of these kits and many items on the sprues, make sure you know what direction you are going in or be ready to magnetize. Each kit builds one of several options and there are lots of great bits in them as well. I know a lot of people complained about prices, but there is a lot of plastic in these kits. You will also be able to use some of the extra bits to upgrade other models if you want. I am building the DW Command Squad, but will be able to use a lot of the bits to build more DW Knights as well from other terminators I have around.

I have been modeling a while and one thing I really need to do is slow down and look over the instructions, some of them aren't intuitive in how they go together so make sure you know what you are doing before the glue goes on.

pretty soon an army will cost as much as a down payment on a house

 DIDM wrote:
pretty soon an army will cost as much as a down payment on a house

Mine are already more. Thanks to combination of a VA loan and buying directly from the builder, I had no down payment on my house.

 Tuagh wrote:

Very capable of playing Warthog, especially since it has Strafing Run. 10 shots of bs5 Str5-6 is nothing to sneeze at.

Yeah I saw someone was confused why it had Strafing Run but with those weapons it makes a lot of sense and even in that configuration I could still see it taking on fliers even if not very cheap.

quote=tidalwake 498364 5164706 null]I know a lot of people complained about prices, but there is a lot of plastic in these kits. You will also be able to use some of the extra bits to upgrade other models if you want.

tidalwake - can you confirm that the Terminator librarians can or cannot take a storm shield?

Also, how are RavenWing unlocked as troops if not from Sammael or Azrael? I thought you mentioned that.

Thanks guys for answering all these questions.

tidalwake wrote:
Also I have one of each of the new models except finecast, only got Belial there. One thing I will say after looking over every kit and building the vengeance is that it looks better in person than it does in any of the pictures. That is not to say it is a great looking model, but it just seems to work when you see it in 3D.

About the Vengeance (the one with the huge organ like apparatus at the back I guess). Is this huge organ structure the source of the plasma storm? If not, I might be tempted to model mine without it.

paqman wrote:

tidalwake wrote:
Also I have one of each of the new models except finecast, only got Belial there. One thing I will say after looking over every kit and building the vengeance is that it looks better in person than it does in any of the pictures. That is not to say it is a great looking model, but it just seems to work when you see it in 3D.

About the Vengeance (the one with the huge organ like apparatus at the back I guess). Is this huge organ structure the source of the plasma storm? If not, I might be tempted to model mine without it.

This is the Vengeance.



The one with the shrine is the Darkshroud. Two different units.

 Platuan4th wrote:

paqman wrote:

tidalwake wrote:
Also I have one of each of the new models except finecast, only got Belial there. One thing I will say after looking over every kit and building the vengeance is that it looks better in person than it does in any of the pictures. That is not to say it is a great looking model, but it just seems to work when you see it in 3D.

About the Vengeance (the one with the huge organ like apparatus at the back I guess). Is this huge organ structure the source of the plasma storm? If not, I might be tempted to model mine without it.

This is the Vengeance.



The one with the shrine is the Darkshroud. Two different units.

Oops. Sorry
Thanks for the clarification.

Here we are again, just like with the 4th ed...

Chaos was the first dex, everyone though that the next dexes to come after would be around the same power lvl, and here again, the new codexes are way over the top...

SShields Termies with T5?, yes sir all for the marines...

Oh and all Termies who count as twinlinked weapons the turn they DS and Venerable Land raiders?, mhmh, all for the marines...

Yup definetly help decides me, to throw my chaos army in the trash and finish my Dark Knight/ravenwing army...

davethepak wrote:
Any chance we can take the "my army sucks more than your army" to another thread, and leave this one to "hey, here is more info on the new DA!".

Please?

On that note, can anyone confirm the weapon choices for the fliers?
(can they get las cannons?).

Oh, and if not, please send the complaints to the tau empire...

Or we could discuss the relevance of rules as they are revealed to more fully understand their significance, while you could scroll back and see that the lascannon was confirmed on both pg. 11 of this thread as well as in the pictures on the GW website (which are technically the "topic" of this thread based on the initial post and title, and evolved into "new rules info" from there.

Can we get confirmation on what the max-cap on Ravenwing squads is? I believe I saw 6 but can't remember.

This has got to be the best gaming year ever (being a DA die hard fan and gamer for 12+ years). However this year is also going to be the biggest test of my patience:

Zombicide.... still waiting anxiously for my two complete sets of promos, t-shirts, and the expansion
Sedition Wars... still waiting anxiously, and will soon be waiting for the awesome promos
Kingom Death Monster... 'bout a year of waiting for my $1500+ of mini goodness
Dark Angels... waited many years for this, preordered 1 of everything with overnight shipping, GW's tracking number shows it will now be delievered the 14th-wtf!

I know, patience is a virtue. I just wish GW would go back to the days of getting your goodies in the mail the day of or day before release when you pre-ordered. There is no incentive to pre-order anymore, esp. since I could have bought these at my local shop for 5% off on the day of release....

Oh well, at least I will be getting the crazy-stupid priced LE codex and didn't have to spend $200 on it.

 lucasbuffalo wrote:


Can we get confirmation on what the max-cap on Ravenwing squads is? I believe I saw 6 but can't remember.

5 bikers, 1 sarge, 1 attack bike, and 1 land speeder. Attack bike and land speeder split off as single model units.

BTW for those who have seen the codex already: What are Belial's new stats? Is his sword ap 2 or +strength?

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Here we are again, just like with the 4th ed...

Chaos was the first dex, everyone though that the next dexes to come after would be around the same power lvl, and here again, the new codexes are way over the top...

SShields Termies with T5?, yes sir all for the marines...

Oh and all Termies who count as twinlinked weapons the turn they DS and Venerable Land raiders?, mhmh, all for the marines...

Yup definetly help decides me, to throw my chaos army in the trash and finish my Dark Knight/ravenwing army...

Don't throw it in the bin!
Post it to me!
I'll even pay postage.

Ravenwing attack squads are the same as old codex except for points cost for the most part. Up to 6 bikes, one attack bike and a landspeeder. The nice thing is you aren't forced to take one type of landspeeder and can choose any configuration. Really nice since fast attack slots are going to be at a premium with the flyer and darkshroud there as well. If you don't take Azrael or Sammael they are Fast Attack for a squad.

Belial is WS6 BS5 S/T 4 I5 3 wounds and attacks. He has an iron halo and teleport homer. Inner Circle rules and has precision hits on a 5+ The unit he joins does not scatter when deep striking as long as they all have Inner Circle special rule. His sword is an AP3 master crafted power sword with Fleshbane (always wounds on a 2+ iirc)

As to the termie librarians, there are wargear lists units can draw weapons from. Termie Librarians can draw from the Terminator Weapons, Special Issue Wargear and/or Chapter Relics lists. I do not see Storm Shields in any of these lists, just combat shields. It's a little odd though because in the front part of the book the storm shield is listed under special issue wargear, but in the army list section where you draw the gear from it is not listed as an option.

Although the special issue wargear has some very cool items such as the power field generator (models in 3" have a 4+ invulnerable save)

Auspex - targeted enemy unit has cover save reduced by 1, used instead of that model shooting.

Porta-rack - If kills enemy character in close combat gives bearer Fear and Preferred Enemy. Can also use enemy teleport homers as your own.

These are just a few of the cool options.

Chaos does different things than dark angels.

Compare an entire army to an entire army, not one unit to one unit.

Also talking about abilities without points seems kind of pointless to me(PUN AHOY)

Going to try and get my copy at midnight, since my gaming store stopped releasing them on friday night.......

Thanks again, tidal. I don't know a lot about DA, as it's only been recently that I've wanted to do something with all the bikes I amassed.

So do you HAVE to split the attack bike off from a ravenwing squad? I would almost prefer to leave it in the main squad. And does that lone attack bike count as scoring as well as the 6 bikes it was detached from? A lone attack bike running around doesn't sound too durable and would be a fire magnet... I imagine the speeder does not count as scoring because it is a vehicle...

That's odd about the storm shield for librarian terminators. Maybe they will FAQ that if it is listed in one place and not in another for points costs.

 GrimTeef wrote:
Thanks again, tidal. I don't know a lot about DA, as it's only been recently that I've wanted to do something with all the bikes I amassed.

So do you HAVE to split the attack bike off from a ravenwing squad? I would almost prefer to leave it in the main squad. And does that lone attack bike count as scoring as well as the 6 bikes it was detached from? A lone attack bike running around doesn't sound too durable and would be a fire magnet... I imagine the speeder does not count as scoring because it is a vehicle...

That's odd about the storm shield for librarian terminators. Maybe they will FAQ that if it is listed in one place and not in another for points costs.

Not sure as the old codex actually stated that the attack bike and speeder became separate, scoring units once split from the squad, while this one does not. It states that they are always purchased with the squad, but from then on are separate units of one model each. However, I think the argument can be made that they should count as scoring since they are being taken with the squadron. Under Azrael and Sammael it says that in a primary detachment Ravenwing Attack Squadrons are troops choices instead of Fast Attack, this would lead me to think that as long as bought as part of the squad, they would count as troops choices and therefore scoring units. There is a weakness to this as well because in a kill point mission a full attack squad will be 3 kill points, 4 if you combat squad the bikes. Maybe it will be FAQ'd to clarify, as it stands now I would say everything you bought with the squad is a troops choice since it also doesn't say they they are outside of the FOC chart like a Techmarine does.

 Hulksmash wrote:
The customizability of Chaos Space Marines is where the difference lies. I think the CSM marines are still priced correctly. Overall I think this is right. New space marines will likely be 15pts or maybe stay 16 since their special rule is ace. And then Grey Hunters will all their special rules stay 15. Makes sense to me.

And bear in mind the DA stubborn rule means you can get locked in combat with things you can't hurt because you can't choose to fail a leadership test.

I expect Vanilla Marines to go to 14 or 15 ppm (GW thinks Stubborn is worth the same as Combat Tactics: see Lysander/Pedro) if they lose their free special/heavy for 10 man squads, and to go to 15 or 16 if they don't. Right now a Vanilla Marine "really costs" 14.5 points, with 15 points of special and heavy weapon upgrades "baked in" to the squad's price. Grey Hunters will probably stay the same-- I can't see them going up more than a point at most-- but might lose their free second special weapon.

Overall MEQs seem to be priced pretty well now. Chaos Marines pay 75 points for 5 guys and come with an Aspiring Champion; DA pay 70 points for 5 guys but are inferior in close combat, then swap LD9 on their character for ATSKNF and a weaker version of Stubborn. Both CSM and DA can upgrade (either via Veterans of the Long War or a Veteran Sergeant) to +1 Leadership, with the CSM also gaining Hatred (Space Marines). This is in line with how it's been since like 3rd edition, when Chaos Marines were +1 Leadership over normal Marines but normal Marines had ATSKNF, with Chaos Marines @ 14 ppm and normal Marines @ 15.

With the heavy deemphasis on morale in 6th edition, ATSKNF is no longer as strong a rule as it once was, excepting on Vanilla Marines, for whom it synergizes extraordinarily well with Combat Tactics

Shame that the Rift Cannon is talked up as being this very dangerous weapon, and yet it's AP-.

LOL!

 kronk wrote:
Sweet! I'm using the DA Codex for my Chaos Space Marines that are heritage Sons of Horus Legionnaires!

Using Loyalist Codex to rep Traitors because the CSM is an inadequate tool for representing the forces of Chaos?

How (un)surprising!

 lucasbuffalo wrote:

 Compel wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

I'm starting to head into regret land, with my Chaos.... I'll just have to take some deep breaths, and evaluate the codex when I get it. I'm not in a stable state of mind right now. The 14 point marines with ATSKNF and stubborn makes me want to hit something.

As opposed to, for exactly the same points cost with an upgrade, Chaos get LD9 for the whole squad and Hatred against marines... Plus the option to arm some guys with close combat weapons. And the option to have double special weapons at 10 strong.

ATSKNF and Stubborn trump 1 more LD value by a long shot, and DA's get weapons with increased AP value against CSM for 0 points extra
seems good.

You guys all realise Stubborn is pretty damn mediocre for ATSKNF marines right? Just about the only time it comes into play is when they are losing an assault, and all it helps do is keep them in that assault losing it, meanwhile, vanilla marines can use Combat Tactics to try and Hit & Run out of the combat and get a round of shooting on their enemies, and because of ATSKNF losing a combat and failing morale isn't a bad thing at all, it's generally an advantage, worst case scenario, you get swept and end up stuck in the combat anyway.

Complain about DA paying 1 point per model for ATSKNF when you pay 1 point per model to have a LD10 tac squad if you want (I'll still think you are being an idiot though), but bringing Stubborn into the argument is just ridiculous, Stubborn is not as good as the Combat Tactics that 15 point vanilla marines have, and DA marines have been costed accordingly.

Vanilla Marines are actually 16 points per model, not 15, but that comes with 15 points of special and heavy weapon upgrades "baked in" to the cost that are only accessed once you hit 10 guys. So the "true" cost of a vanilla Tactical Marine is 14.5 ppm, assuming you take them in ten-man squads, which you always should. It seems entirely reasonable that a Dark Angels marine would cost 14 points per model instead of 14.5 given how much worse pseudo-Stubborn is than Combat Tactics.

tidalwake wrote:


Not sure as the old codex actually stated that the attack bike and speeder became separate, scoring units once split from the squad, while this one does not. It states that they are always purchased with the squad, but from then on are separate units of one model each. However, I think the argument can be made that they should count as scoring since they are being taken with the squadron.

Except that the BRB still states that vehicles and embarked units do not count as scoring by default. So in theory the Land Speeder is a troop if bought as a troop unit upgrade but to be scoring the codex should override the BRB. If it says nothing I would think the Land Speeder has lost the option, but the Attack Bike would still have it.

Yeah a FAQ clarification might be nice if it's not written like it used to be.

I'm pretty sure it is in the rulebook that vehicles are never scoring unless specifically stated. So you're likely right, Karyudo. Attack bike would be scoring (multi wound model, no problems). Land Speeder wouldn't be unless it says otherwise.

 DIDM wrote:
pretty soon an army will cost as much as a down payment on a house

Or an XBOX with new $60 games every couple months, or a new set of good golf clubs, or as much as many spend on magic cards, or that new lego star destroyer, or that cool new paintball gun and a case of paint every month, or ....

I agree that GW should sell them cheaper, if anything, to make it easier for new players to get into the hobby.

However as far as value per hour - while its no where near your typical MMO or heck, even a set of lincon logs, it is in line with many other "expensive" hobbies.

Just sayin.

Now, back to rumors:
Good to hear that the vengeance looks better in person...I was planning on just kit-bashing something together - now I may have to actually consider it.

Can we get some thoughts on how difficult it might be to put extra plasma guns on the existing raven wing bikes, so I don't need to buy new bikes?


thanks the posts everyone who is contributing content to the thread.