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Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Blackie wrote:
Using older bases size is not like altering or downsizing anything, it's playing with the miniatures exactly like they were released.
How is that in any way a counter to what GW has written in that document?

I think that "[O]lder base sizes do need to be upgraded" is pretty cut and dry.

And yes I know this is a Warhammer World thing, but nothing you said above changes what GW said.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in de
Terrifying Doombull






Nuremberg

If I have models that used to be on 25mm but are now on 32mm I put them on 25mm bases when I build them so they don't clash with my old collection. If a model can't be rebased onto 25mm I don't buy it, generally. I've put a couple of character models on 32mm, that's it.

I'm really annoyed at GW for changing the industry standard for basing, I think it was a reall anti-consumer move and I'm a bit surprised at how happily most people seem to have accepted all the additional work GW dumped on them because they can't manage to keep the scale creep down.

If I ever play with strangers I will use base adapters.

   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

32mm bases just look a whole loot better and not everybody has a 20 years old collection

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Base adapters May also be useful unit indicators. Particularly useful if you’ve gone for a fast paint job.

Red rims? Squad 1

Blue rims? Squad 2

And so on and so forth.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Base adapters May also be useful unit indicators. Particularly useful if you’ve gone for a fast paint job.

Red rims? Squad 1

Blue rims? Squad 2

And so on and so forth.


You might have actually convinced me to get adapters. Just prime them in a different color for each unit of boyz and slap them on. I like it.

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in fi
Ye Lord of The End Times (and a good guy)





 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Base adapters May also be useful unit indicators. Particularly useful if you’ve gone for a fast paint job.

Red rims? Squad 1

Blue rims? Squad 2

And so on and so forth.


You don't need adapters for that I have one army that uses rim colours. And that's my sisters that were bought when they were released. No adapters there.

2021 painted/bought: 538/575 
   
Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
Using older bases size is not like altering or downsizing anything, it's playing with the miniatures exactly like they were released.
How is that in any way a counter to what GW has written in that document?

I think that "[O]lder base sizes do need to be upgraded" is pretty cut and dry.

And yes I know this is a Warhammer World thing, but nothing you said above changes what GW said.


As you said yourself, it's an house rule for that specific setting. That's really that, nothing more.

The statement about downsizing or altering bases size is pretty much what every TO says though. But it doesn't mean that official bases aren't legal, even if current kits come with different base sizes.


 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Didn't WTC also require you to have most recent bases on everything?

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





In the end I think it's whether it filters down to local clubs and whatnot. Even the biggest tournaments or organisations are only a drop in the bucket of global gamers.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Halifax

tneva82 wrote:
Then you also need to cover the top so that it matches the base.

This is a requirement? I was unaware. I just scraped some paint, slapped on the base extenders and called the job a good'un.

   
Made in us
Stealthy Grot Snipa





Atlanta, GA

I'm really annoyed at GW for changing the industry standard for basing, I think it was a reall anti-consumer move and I'm a bit surprised at how happily most people seem to have accepted all the additional work GW dumped on them because they can't manage to keep the scale creep down.


Oh COME ON. "Anti-consumer move", really? Protip: unless you're playing in a tournament that requires the new base sizes, you don't have to rebase your old miniatures. And if someone in a casual game objects to the smaller bases, don't play against them. Next thing you know people will be blaming GW as being "anti-consumer" for releasing new miniatures.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

They changed their standard size because no one was making 32mm bases and everyone and their dog's dog's dog was making resin 28mm bases. GW hates 3rd parties in all their forms, seeing them as parasites rather than symbiotic creatures they are, and thus went out of their way to make a new base size.

They're still doing it BTW. We've had a lot of new base sizes in the past few years.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/17 15:03:05


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Master Tormentor






St. Louis

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They changed their standard size because no one was making 32mm bases and everyone and their dog's dog's dog was making resin 28mm bases. GW hates 3rd parties in all their forms, seeing them as parasites rather than symbiotic creatures they are, and thus went out of their way to make a new base size.

They're still doing it BTW. We've had a lot of new base sizes in the past few years.


Is this a bad time to mention that a lot of their competitors don't use 28mm bases either? :p
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Who said anything about competitors. I was talking about 3rd party sites. Y'know, the ones that made resin bases for years.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They changed their standard size because no one was making 32mm bases and everyone and their dog's dog's dog was making resin 28mm bases. GW hates 3rd parties in all their forms, seeing them as parasites rather than symbiotic creatures they are, and thus went out of their way to make a new base size.

They're still doing it BTW. We've had a lot of new base sizes in the past few years.



Eh, to be fair, orks should have been on 32mm bases to begin with. Considering how they didn't have any orks at the studio during 7th, they probably found out how much orks overhang their base when playing killteam

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in de
Terrifying Doombull






Nuremberg

 Mr. Grey wrote:
I'm really annoyed at GW for changing the industry standard for basing, I think it was a reall anti-consumer move and I'm a bit surprised at how happily most people seem to have accepted all the additional work GW dumped on them because they can't manage to keep the scale creep down.


Oh COME ON. "Anti-consumer move", really? Protip: unless you're playing in a tournament that requires the new base sizes, you don't have to rebase your old miniatures. And if someone in a casual game objects to the smaller bases, don't play against them. Next thing you know people will be blaming GW as being "anti-consumer" for releasing new miniatures.


I'm well aware of my options in this regard, thanks.

If you can't see how altering the industry standard for 28mm minis which has existed for decades and is used in other games than 40K so that you can re-scale your main line to encourage consumers to rebuy everything again and also make your stuff scale-wise incompatible with alternative products is not a pro-consumer move then that's really your issue not mine.

Edit to add: And it's not a huge moral issue or anything, just the usual sort of stuff corporations do. It's not like GW can force me to do anything in this regard. That doesn't stop it from being a negative.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Who said anything about competitors. I was talking about 3rd party sites. Y'know, the ones that made resin bases for years.


Laughing Man is referring to the fact that the bases were 25mm not 28mm. Though GW actually does produce 28mm bases now, bafflingly.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/17 15:26:38


   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

 Da Boss wrote:
Spoiler:
 Mr. Grey wrote:
I'm really annoyed at GW for changing the industry standard for basing, I think it was a reall anti-consumer move and I'm a bit surprised at how happily most people seem to have accepted all the additional work GW dumped on them because they can't manage to keep the scale creep down.


Oh COME ON. "Anti-consumer move", really? Protip: unless you're playing in a tournament that requires the new base sizes, you don't have to rebase your old miniatures. And if someone in a casual game objects to the smaller bases, don't play against them. Next thing you know people will be blaming GW as being "anti-consumer" for releasing new miniatures.


I'm well aware of my options in this regard, thanks.

If you can't see how altering the industry standard for 28mm minis which has existed for decades and is used in other games than 40K so that you can re-scale your main line to encourage consumers to rebuy everything again and also make your stuff scale-wise incompatible with alternative products is not a pro-consumer move then that's really your issue not mine.

Edit to add: And it's not a huge moral issue or anything, just the usual sort of stuff corporations do. It's not like GW can force me to do anything in this regard. That doesn't stop it from being a negative.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Who said anything about competitors. I was talking about 3rd party sites. Y'know, the ones that made resin bases for years.


Laughing Man is referring to the fact that the bases were 25mm not 28mm. Though GW actually does produce 28mm bases now, bafflingly.

They're listed as 28.5mm bases, which puts the size exactly midway between the 25mm and 32mm bases.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Da Boss wrote:
Laughing Man is referring to the fact that the bases were 25mm not 28mm. Though GW actually does produce 28mm bases now, bafflingly.
Ah, ok. 25mm. I got my mm mixed up.

And yes, just another slightly different base to the 'standard' that they basically created.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in si
Ravenous Beast Form







 H.B.M.C. wrote:
basically


Oh you!

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Made in us
Master Tormentor






St. Louis

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Who said anything about competitors. I was talking about 3rd party sites. Y'know, the ones that made resin bases for years.
You did, when you brought up the industry standard that they supposedly changed.
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






I have been pretty happy with what GW has moved to 32mm verses left at 25mm. Coming from fantasy where there was always a divide with 20mm square and 25mm it struck me as off that all the infantry were on the same wee base. Don't have an opinion on if it is anti-consumer or accountant driven, I just personally prefer the variety.

28mm on other hand I dislike; it is too close to 25mm and barely distinguishable. If they mean to move to 28mm I could understand that, but only because it has a (imo positive) gameplay effect by going from below 1" to above

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I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history. 
   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They changed their standard size because no one was making 32mm bases and everyone and their dog's dog's dog was making resin 28mm bases. GW hates 3rd parties in all their forms, seeing them as parasites rather than symbiotic creatures they are, and thus went out of their way to make a new base size.

They're still doing it BTW. We've had a lot of new base sizes in the past few years.


No, they added new base sizes because they fit the models better. 25mm bases were super awkward for many models, but 40mm ones were too large. Also the new 28,5 is good too. It is perfect for eldar infantry for example. 25mm looks a bit too cramped for them but 32mm looks too big.

Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Annandale, VA

Having to use the 'most recent' base is a bit of a problem for kits where the base size you get is a crapshoot. As a Tyranid player, if I go buy a box of Warriors I do not know if it will come with 40mm or 50mm bases, and if I buy a box of Carnifexes I don't know if it'll have 60mm round or 105mm oval.

I shouldn't be expected to track GW's release chart and make guesses about which base sizes are newer (I know that the 105mm oval for Carnifexes was introduced in the Deathstorm box- how on earth is a newbie supposed to know?) so that I can figure out which boxes are old stock and which are the new standard, just to have a game-compliant army.

If GW wants to have 'official' base sizes they should, y'know, specify official base sizes like they did with AoS. Don't tell me I need to have the 'correct' size, then tell me the ones that came with a kit aren't necessarily correct, and then not tell me what the correct sizes are.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/17 17:53:06


 
   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






 catbarf wrote:

If GW wants to have 'official' base sizes they should, y'know, specify official base sizes like they did with AoS. Don't tell me I need to have the 'correct' size, then tell me the ones that came with a kit aren't necessarily correct, and then not tell me what the correct sizes are.

Yeah, fair.

Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

 catbarf wrote:
If GW wants to have 'official' base sizes they should, y'know, specify official base sizes like they did with AoS.

You mean the ones that they call 'suggested'?

Don’t worry – you don’t have to rebase your model if it is not on the suggested base unless you want to (that’s why these are suggested base sizes rather than mandatory ones).

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Exalted Beastlord




 catbarf wrote:
Having to use the 'most recent' base is a bit of a problem for kits where the base size you get is a crapshoot. As a Tyranid player, if I go buy a box of Warriors I do not know if it will come with 40mm or 50mm bases


Wait, what? When did that happen?


I love the fact that the store page has them on both in side-by-side pictures.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Annandale, VA

 Ghaz wrote:
You mean the ones that they call 'suggested'?


Yes? I'm afraid I don't see your point. Especially considering the sentence following what you quoted:

Don’t worry – you don’t have to rebase your model if it is not on the suggested base unless you want to (that’s why these are suggested base sizes rather than mandatory ones). If you prefer not to rebase your models, just assume that the model is mounted on a base of the appropriate size when setting the model up, moving it, or measuring any distances in a matched play game.


In AOS Matched Play you're supposed to treat the models as if they were mounted on the official base size. In organized events, you're expected to have them on the correct base size.

That rule for Matched Play is a bit clunky and I would have no problem with just using the base as it actually is, but for tournament play where base sizes are enforced, having an official reference sure beats the heck out of being expected to figure out the correct size on your own and/or argue about the finer points of GW's release history with a TO who thinks your models are wrongly based.
   
Made in de
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle




I never rebased my older Marines, kept them with 25mm. When I added "new old" marines I also put them on 25mm for uniformity. New Plague Marines get their 32mm however, but I have no problem with mixing the two. Yes, you might see some plague Marine squads in my army with different base sizes in the unit. The faction is called chaos for a reason.

When I started Orks I put them on 32mm right away, even the older metal ones from ebay that were on 25mm originally. Why? Because it looks cooler and I want to have one style this time.
The main reason why I'd never rebase older minis is because I hate basing and most of my bases are sculpted bases I paid money for and painted them. Rules also aren't important enough really to make me destroy my work.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Denison, Iowa

I have a Deathwatch army with two old-school monopose plastic mini-marines from a 2nd edition starter. When I made my army I ended up with a squad with only 8 guys, and because of my OCD it needed to be maxed out. Instead of bits ordering, I shook out my bits box and got two oddball marines from a bygone era to join the ranks. Do they look funny and out of place next to the others? Heck yes they do. Still play them.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




I think all this base size talk would be better off in it's own thread. It is a great debate, which many people seem to want to talk about, but not much to do with Ork N&R.
   
 
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