Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Death By Monkeys wrote:LOLZ...HBMC and Johnny said nearly the same thing! Will wonders never cease.

Both of them agreeing on something and ignoring each other and not realizing it is the biggest Irony of the week.

That the rumors include the possibility of Grey Hunters getting heavy weapons - this makes me suspicious. In both the second and third edition, it was clearly in fluff that heavy weapons go to the Long Fangs. The rest of the rumors mostly fall into the 'most people can see this coming' category.

I think it's 50/50 at best of SW keeping the Leman Russ battletank, of any variety. SW lack at long-range, and it would be a nice supplement. Since GW did away with the 'no battlecannons for MEQ', I could even see SW getting the LR MBT.

And, as far as owning something that goes against the Codex, I think SW would probably take great pleasure in doing something 'against the rules.' I can only imagine Marneus Calgar and Logan Grimnar having a conversation like this in the Fang:

MC, "Logan, you can't have Leman Russ battletanks or Baneblades in your armory, you need to get rid of them."
LG, "I don't have any."
MC, "I'm looking at them - right now!" (MC pointing to the back fo the armory)
LG, "Oh, those tanks. They're not Leman Russ battletanks or Baneblades. We call them Wolftanks and Wolfblades. But, don't worry, we don't have any Leman Russ battletanks or Baneblades!"

two_heads_talking wrote:

Death By Monkeys wrote:LOLZ...HBMC and Johnny said nearly the same thing! Will wonders never cease.

Both of them agreeing on something and ignoring each other and not realizing it is the biggest Irony of the week.

But HBMC doesn't ignore JHDD...

The SW are an assault-oriented Imperial Space Marine army.

Having any IG-based vehicles is strongly out of place, much less one with >48" range, so the basic Battlecannon Russ is out of the question.

The Exterminator isn't a bad fit, but better as yet another Land Raider variant swapping the hull Lascannons for Autocannons (2 twin Autocannon, 1 twin HB, pintle-Melta optional - Transport 16, and you're golden).

two_heads_talking wrote:Both of them agreeing on something and ignoring each other and not realizing it is the biggest Irony of the week.

I haven't got DD on ignore. I deal with my problems rather than hiding from them.

BYE

Platuan4th wrote:

two_heads_talking wrote:

Death By Monkeys wrote:LOLZ...HBMC and Johnny said nearly the same thing! Will wonders never cease.

Both of them agreeing on something and ignoring each other and not realizing it is the biggest Irony of the week.

But HBMC doesn't ignore JHDD...

True. And to clarify, I just choose not to respond to HMBC.
____

... or "HBMC", for that matter.

IMO, there's some deep psychological thing that happens here, because HBMC is actually easier to type than HMBC. I think there's a subliminal "humbug" association that pops up.

Who's HMBC?

BYE

JohnHwangDD wrote:True. And to clarify, I just choose not to respond to HMBC.

But what about H.B.M.C.?

H.B.M.C. wrote:Who's HMBC?

BYE

Wasn't he that guy who joined up to mess with people who misspelled your name 3-4 years ago?

JohnHwangDD wrote:The SW are an assault-oriented Imperial Space Marine army.

Having any IG-based vehicles is strongly out of place, much less one with >48" range, so the basic Battlecannon Russ is out of the question.

They're assault oriented, but they've always had strong heavy weapon backup from Longfangs and Vehicles (and wolf guard too). Their line infantry (at least in 2nd ed codex), didn't have heavy weapons because they wouldn't stop running at the enemy long enough to fire the thing. I doubt they'll get a LR MBT, but anything's possible with GW. CSM got the Defiler, so GW clearly has no angst giving MEQs a battlecannon.

Not a vanilla Russ, but the Exterminator variant.

GW is segmenting the various armies very deliberately.

The CSM got the Defiler (which no longer has IF) because they don't get the SM Whirlwind.

The Defiler is a Walker, because if it's a Battlecannon Tank, then it's an IG Leman Russ.

Platuan4th wrote:Wasn't he that guy who joined up to mess with people who misspelled your name 3-4 years ago?

No I'll tell you who he is. He's the guy who's been stealing my thunder for years now.

"Great list! Thanks for the help HMBC!"
"If it wasn't for HMBC I'd still be a crap Guard player!"
"Do you do anything else besides complain HMBC?"
"LOL HMBC! Sigged!"
"Just wait 'til HMBC gets here, he always has something to grumble about."
"I can't mount a decent or logical counter-argument, therefore I put HMBC on ignore!"
"I follow HMBC into every thread he posts in, just to be contrary."

And mark my words Platuan4th, one day I will find him. And HMBC will rue the day he tried to out HBMC HBMC!

HMB... err... I mean BYE

I don't see Grey Hunters getting a heavy weapon choice.

G

JohnHwangDD wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:What is there that is justifiably and uniquely space wolves? All the non-codex chapters are just different organizations of the same basic list concept, with a few additions.

Huh? SW, like BT, are demonstrably non-Codex. SW don't follow the UM Scout -> Tactical -> Dev/Assault -> Veteran progression at all. They don't mix weapons in their Tactical-equivalent Grey Hunter squads. They don't have spare wounds in their Devastator-equivalent Long Fang squads.

If you look at variance, it's like this:
- Codex Marines (no divergence)
- Blood Angels / Dark Angels (small divergence, pretend to comply)
- Black Templars / Space Wolves (large divergence, cannot pretend to comply)
- Chaos Marines (heretical divergence)
____

BigToof wrote:what's wrong with the Space Marine dex?

It only really allows one to play armies consisting of 10-man Bolter Marines with Transport.

If you want to do anything else, avoid!
____

padixon wrote:Most of the stuff listed does not sound very interesting, and I have a hard time believing Grey hunters will have 2 attacks.

Last I heard, they planned on Grey Hunters to be equipped like the CSM are, maybe that is what the original poster of these rumors meant?

I'm not sure why the rumors should sound "interesting". The SW list concepts are well-developed, so there shouldn't be huge changes in theme or design. Mostly smaller stuff in cleanup from 3E to 5E.

If Grey Hunters are Bolter, BP&CCW, then they have effectively 2 attacks.

I thought it was scout> devastators> tactical> assault>veteran/terminator.

Depending on the version of the Fluff, Dev / Tac / Assault rotate around, so I don't think this matters so much.

In any case, it's not BC -> GH -> LF.

I would like to finally see long fang dreadnaughts. My big question is what will GW do with wolfguard? It is already zoounding like no more Fenrisian wolves for wargear... Oh well. If so enjoy them while you've got them.

G

Platuan4th wrote:

two_heads_talking wrote:

Death By Monkeys wrote:LOLZ...HBMC and Johnny said nearly the same thing! Will wonders never cease.

Both of them agreeing on something and ignoring each other and not realizing it is the biggest Irony of the week.

But HBMC doesn't ignore JHDD...

Yeah, after posting that, it occured to me. Obviously HBMC doesn't ignore JHDD as he is usually commenting.. I think I was having a relapse after skipping lunch.. So, the biggest Irony is me... lol

Green Blow Fly wrote:I would like to finally see long fang dreadnaughts. My big question is what will GW do with wolfguard? It is already zoounding like no more Fenrisian wolves for wargear... Oh well. If so enjoy them while you've got them.
G

On the one hand, getting rid of the Wolf Guard Battle Leader HQ choice would be consistent with the SM codex (Wolf Lord = Captain).
On the other hand, the WGBL goes back to the second edition in fluff, and having a Wolfguard (Housecarl) attach to a unit was a big boon. And, iirc, the second edition codex even said something like, "If you really like this idea, just get a bunch of the characters and attach to units." So, it might hang around as a way for a Wolf Lord to delegate some command to one of his trusted housecarls (and that's really what Wolf Guard are). I would guess though that the HQ choice is gone. I think the GHs and BCs will go back to second edition codex and have a Sergeant as the leader (although, they could keep it as a WG Pack Leader for the unit leader). WG will be 2 units - power armor and terminator. I'm hoping that they keep the potential for lots of wargear (which, there's some possibilty based on Vanguard, Sternguard, BA and DA Vets). I'd love to see something like:

WG Terminators - Stormbolter and Power Weapon are standard. Any model can replace stormbolter with combi-weapon. Any model can replace Power weapon with powerfist or chainfist. Any model can replace Stormbolter and Power weapon with Twin Lightning Claws or TH/SS. If unit numbers 5, one model can replace stormbolter with assault cannon, heavy flamer, or CML. If unit number 10, a second model can (and while SW and decidedly non-Codex, if CSM are 'Codex' then SW will be 'Codex too).

WG in PA - Bolter, BP, CCW, grenades are standard. Any model can replace CCW with a power weapon or power fist. Any model can replace bolter with combi-weapon. Any model can replace bolter, bp, and ccw with Lightning Claws. If unit numbers 5, one model can take: meltagun, flamer, plasma rifle, heavy bolter, multi-melta, missile launcher, lascannon, or heavy flamer. If unit number 10, a second model can.

I don't think WG should get heavy weapons unless they are terminators. Keep them where they belong, with the Long Fangs. I also like the fact that they aren't their own squads now, they are tied to their HQs.

And what exactly would a Long Fang Dreadnaught be? I doubt you get the honor of being enclosed in a Dread without at least being a little long in the fang.

I agree that heavy weapons should be the domain of the Long Fangs. But, in the third edition, WG could take heavy weapons, and iirc, they could in second edition as well.

In 2E SW Termies were ridiculously broken precisely because they *could* take heavy weapons.

I don't know about broken the point cost for those hev weapons weren't cheep in 2ed.
I hope they don't hose my terminators to bad. I like having 8 assault cannons in my 22 man unit with 2 chars rend this bugs.

dietrich wrote:WG Terminators - ... If unit numbers 5 ... If unit number 10

WG in PA - ... If unit numbers 5, one model can take ... If unit number 10, a second model can.

UUugk! No. None of this 5/10 crap. It's stupid enough that Chaos and Orks have to follow it, but please spare the Space Wolves.

sonofruss wrote:I don't know about broken the point cost for those hev weapons weren't cheep in 2ed.
I hope they don't hose my terminators to bad. I like having 8 assault cannons in my 22 man unit with 2 chars rend this bugs.

Well prepare to be disappointed. Conventional wisdom says that Space Wolves are about to be hit with the Blandhammer, so say goodbye to flexible unit options, any sort of wargear list beyond identicle weapons (everything will come as standard and be generic), mandatory special characters and a whole host of other items set to make Space Wolves the new Dark Angels.


And I just thought of a Collector's Release special character they should do - Jervius J'onsonius. When you take him your army loses all its special rules. All of them. Just like that.

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:UUugk! No. None of this 5/10 crap. It's stupid enough that Chaos and Orks have to follow it, but please spare the Space Wolves.

And I just thought of a Collector's Release special character they should do - Jervius J'onsonius. When you take him your army loses all its special rules. All of them. Just like that.

BYE

If Chaos and Orks orderly codex, then I'm sure all the loyalist will be drug into line with those restrictions, whether we like it or not. I mean, you can't have SW more chaotic than chaos, can you?

But, Jervius J'onsonius is only fieldable in APOC!

JohnHwangDD wrote:In 2E SW Termies were ridiculously broken precisely because they *could* take heavy weapons.

And more than that, they could ALL have HW, not just 1 or two per squad. And iirc, the RAW also allowed you to take an assault cannon with a cyclone missile launcher mounted on top of the terminator. And back then cyclones were brutal! Launch all 12 missiles and it was a 13" blast marker or something crazy like that!

dietrich wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:UUugk! No. None of this 5/10 crap. It's stupid enough that Chaos and Orks have to follow it, but please spare the Space Wolves.

And I just thought of a Collector's Release special character they should do - Jervius J'onsonius. When you take him your army loses all its special rules. All of them. Just like that.

BYE

If Chaos and Orks orderly codex, then I'm sure all the loyalist will be drug into line with those restrictions, whether we like it or not. I mean, you can't have SW more chaotic than chaos, can you?

But, Jervius J'onsonius is only fieldable in APOC!

All in the name of Balance, as defined by GW.

I really hope Jervis is not anywhere NEAR the writing of this Codex.

I disagree,

Jervius J'onsonius will probably be a 1-0/"manditory" HQ choice for any non-codex SM chapter army that is in excess of 500 points .

Scottywan82 wrote:And more than that, they could ALL have HW, not just 1 or two per squad. And iirc, the RAW also allowed you to take an assault cannon with a cyclone missile launcher mounted on top of the terminator. And back then cyclones were brutal! Launch all 12 missiles and it was a 13" blast marker or something crazy like that!

They did eventually FAQ the Assault Cannon/Cyclone Wolf Guard Terminator thing so that it couldn't happen, banning it in all GT's. Other than that there wasn't a huge amount wrong with Space Wolves.

And yeah, Cyclones were brutal. Sure, you only got 12 shots a game, but if you used all those shots in a single turn - BOOOOM - once wiped out the entire flank of an Ork army in one shot with one of those. And that's not to say that Assault Cannons were any less brutal. They were rapid fire Krak missile launchers after all. You could spit out up to 9 S8 shots a turn with one of those. Quickest way to strip the tracks off a Russ was to use an Assault Cannon on it.

BYE

My brother once flew a ravenwing landspeeder into the middle of an Ork horde, blew up the scorcha and the other guy rolled boxcars for the range. He cooked off half his own army on turn one. The other have was "On Fire"

Ah, those were the days.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Green Blow Fly wrote:I just cannot get over that GW would drop the Leman Russ tank.

Iron Warriors lost their IG Basilisk, so SW will lose their IG Russ.

But don't worry, you get them back in Apoc.

Iron Warriors don't exist as a list anymore. If you want to play Iron Warriors you have to use the basic CSM codex.

I don't like the Exterminator Russ, but it would be sad to take away the tank named for the Space Wolves Primarch, especially since GW is finally going to include the Exterminator option in the Russ kits.

I was also underwhelmed by these rumors. It sounds very much like a dumbed down version of the existing SW codex. I was hoping to see something a little more radical. Something to motivate me to build another SW army.