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must...not...troll...KK...too...easy...

Can I please just check the 'Godly' people on here stating that counterfeit models are unlawful, morally wrong and all that good stuff, are the same people who have NEVER listened to a burned CD recording, or back in day, a tape recording, or own any sort of mp3 file made from a CD they do not own, or ever been to Maccy D's for a Mc Poo? I just want to check there are no hypercrites here, because that is one thing that gets on my back.

If I make a squad of 10 men for my adeptus army, made from various GW parts and then make casts to produce them for my own army, is that wrong? GW don't make what I want. Is that the same as making your own mix CD, using songs from various albums you own?

I bought 100 Steel Legion troopers which I highly suspect were counterfeit saving around 75% on the GW price. From that, I've then spent around £2000 (Yes thats right) on GW models and Forgeworld models to supplement that particular army. The army has won painting awards used in tournaments and featured on GW's web site. Had I not bought the 100 troops, I would have never have spent the £2000 on other stuff to go with them. So GW made £2000 from me, rather than £0.

Custom made models, is that counterfit? Guy turns up at a tournament to play against me with his 'Vindicator' (Rhino with bottle top stuck to the front) and 'Whirlwind) (Rhino with small plastic pens stuck to the top). Are these now counterfeit models that should be smashed to bits?

A Games club chucks in and buys 1 copy of the Appoc books and forgeworld books (£50 to produce a book IS obscene) so that every member can use them for reference. Some people photocopy the relevent rules for their vehicles. Is this wrong. I buy a £50 Bombard Cannon, and then have to pay another £50 just to get the official rule book to use it! Don't think so. If the book was a sensible price, then most of my games club would have bought it, instead we have a rule book fund, and buy 1 copy of each for everyone to use. Is this the same as all the magazines in the Doctor's waiting room. "Opps, I didn't buy it, therefore I won't read it".

The guy who's doesn't use GW paints for his models, is that wrong?

The guys making cardboard vehicles (and there are plenty on this site) based on GW's vehicles, should they all be burned? Or should GW be burned when they base their design's off other peoples? 2nd Wave of Tryanids looked a lot like the Alien models. Or my own personal 3 grudges......

1) Guy from Forgeworld at GW Notts comes to our table asking about the spaced armour I'd made for my Chimera, thats very nice he says, mind if I take some pictures, no probs I say. 6 months later, near idetical armour is released from Foreworld. .....

2) Guy from GW Notts store, I really like your 1k Sons Termintors, how'd you make them, so I tell him. 4 months later, an article on the GW Web site from the guy in the shop showing off his 1k sons Terminators......

3) Or my personal favourite, come up to GW Notts, we'll photograpgh all your LoD army, get it in White Dwarf. So I did. How'd you make the LoD bikes, so I tell him, write to me how you did it, what parts you used, we'll put it in the article,so I did. 8 months later, nothing in WD, but in the collectors Space Marine edition, a LoD bike made by the guy who invited me up to GW with an article on how he made it! This was over 10 years ago.

GW is a hobby and people will copy their hobby (even GW do it - see examples above). People will also input to their hobby, the rules for the Warhound Titan I practically wrote for Forgeworld after hours of playtesting their original crap rules (Titan stomp, repairable weapons all from my rules I sent them) and I don't have any acknowledgement from them, other than a 'Thank you' note from one of the staff. If their stuff is being copied it means one of 2 things:

1. They have a good product.
2. Its too expensive.

If they lowered their prices, people would buy more of their product, and they would make more £££££. I'm not condoning or supporting counterfeit products, I am saying that GW do it when it suits them (albeit they change it enough for them to legally not be), and for some its a nessecity. And I'll put my money on everyone on this chat board in one shape or another owns something copied, be it music tape, CD, DVD, mp3, read someone elses paper etc etc.

There is a world of difference between a Counterfeit model, and the scratch builds and conversions you mentione.

GW make a Vindicator Tank. Making your own Vindicator tank, using GW rules in a GW game is making a Counterfeit model, as you are claiming its a Vindicator.

Harsh line I agree, but that's the letter of the law.

TheSecretSquig wrote:Can I please just check the 'Godly' people on here stating that counterfeit models are unlawful, morally wrong and all that good stuff, are the same people who have NEVER listened to a burned CD recording, or back in day, a tape recording, or own any sort of mp3 file made from a CD they do not own, or ever been to Maccy D's for a Mc Poo? I just want to check there are no hypercrites here, because that is one thing that gets on my back.

If I make a squad of 10 men for my adeptus army, made from various GW parts and then make casts to produce them for my own army, is that wrong? GW don't make what I want. Is that the same as making your own mix CD, using songs from various albums you own?

I bought 100 Steel Legion troopers which I highly suspect were counterfeit saving around 75% on the GW price. From that, I've then spent around £2000 (Yes thats right) on GW models and Forgeworld models to supplement that particular army. The army has won painting awards used in tournaments and featured on GW's web site. Had I not bought the 100 troops, I would have never have spent the £2000 on other stuff to go with them. So GW made £2000 from me, rather than £0.

Custom made models, is that counterfit? Guy turns up at a tournament to play against me with his 'Vindicator' (Rhino with bottle top stuck to the front) and 'Whirlwind) (Rhino with small plastic pens stuck to the top). Are these now counterfeit models that should be smashed to bits?

A Games club chucks in and buys 1 copy of the Appoc books and forgeworld books (£50 to produce a book IS obscene) so that every member can use them for reference. Some people photocopy the relevent rules for their vehicles. Is this wrong. I buy a £50 Bombard Cannon, and then have to pay another £50 just to get the official rule book to use it! Don't think so. If the book was a sensible price, then most of my games club would have bought it, instead we have a rule book fund, and buy 1 copy of each for everyone to use. Is this the same as all the magazines in the Doctor's waiting room. "Opps, I didn't buy it, therefore I won't read it".

The guy who's doesn't use GW paints for his models, is that wrong?

The guys making cardboard vehicles (and there are plenty on this site) based on GW's vehicles, should they all be burned? Or should GW be burned when they base their design's off other peoples? 2nd Wave of Tryanids looked a lot like the Alien models. Or my own personal 3 grudges......

1) Guy from Forgeworld at GW Notts comes to our table asking about the spaced armour I'd made for my Chimera, thats very nice he says, mind if I take some pictures, no probs I say. 6 months later, near idetical armour is released from Foreworld. .....

2) Guy from GW Notts store, I really like your 1k Sons Termintors, how'd you make them, so I tell him. 4 months later, an article on the GW Web site from the guy in the shop showing off his 1k sons Terminators......

3) Or my personal favourite, come up to GW Notts, we'll photograpgh all your LoD army, get it in White Dwarf. So I did. How'd you make the LoD bikes, so I tell him, write to me how you did it, what parts you used, we'll put it in the article,so I did. 8 months later, nothing in WD, but in the collectors Space Marine edition, a LoD bike made by the guy who invited me up to GW with an article on how he made it! This was over 10 years ago.

GW is a hobby and people will copy their hobby (even GW do it - see examples above). People will also input to their hobby, the rules for the Warhound Titan I practically wrote for Forgeworld after hours of playtesting their original crap rules (Titan stomp, repairable weapons all from my rules I sent them) and I don't have any acknowledgement from them, other than a 'Thank you' note from one of the staff. If their stuff is being copied it means one of 2 things:

1. They have a good product.
2. Its too expensive.

If they lowered their prices, people would buy more of their product, and they would make more £££££. I'm not condoning or supporting counterfeit products, I am saying that GW do it when it suits them (albeit they change it enough for them to legally not be), and for some its a nessecity. And I'll put my money on everyone on this chat board in one shape or another owns something copied, be it music tape, CD, DVD, mp3, read someone elses paper etc etc.

This is called Sophism.

You are drawing a fine line and then crossing it with justification. " I only shot the guy, I didn't kill him..." "I only copied One page, NOT the whole book."

Its a difference between using the stuff yourself for playing the game and copying the stuff blatantly and selling it, thereby making profit off of someone else’s work, while you didn't take any time to make your own, and go through the creative process.
You copied it. You sold it; you made a profit off of someone else’s work.

Your difference is that “It’s justified to copy materials and use them..." falls on the face after you look at How many people will be affected by results.
Look at the kid that was mentioned earlier. The Redshirt dimed him out based on his models and pretty much stated that he was willing to do the kid violence because of his models.

Break the kids stuff, based on his opinion that the kid’s army was counterfeit. Now we see that YOU have an Adepticus Army? Then you better not take it to that shop. Heaven forbid that you use a little CREATIVITY and come up with your own concept.

There is a fine line between using your army, modifying it, and making your models then there is to COPYWRITE INFRINGEMENT.
The line being that the counterfeiter is making profit off of someone else’s labor. Just kit bashing and making the models for your own playing is using the models as intended.
FOR YOUR OWN PLAYING is the intent. YOU created the property, then you did the hard work, used YOUR idea, and did everything you needed to make your dream happen, then to see some cat come behind you and crap all over it making profits that should go to you is a little disheartening, but GW, with their !@#$ed business practice of paying their business staff the outrageous profits, and then crapping on the artist is pretty much the other side of the extreme.

The issue I have with defending GW is that THEY INTENTIONALLY SCREW EVERYONE, and don't care who knows it.
Those petty profits that they so called claim to get go to an army of ambulance chasers that would just as soon kill you and rape your corpse then look at you.

I have no love for GW. BUT Andy Chambers, Mike McVeigh, Tim Prow, etc. have gotten it in the fourth point of contact allot harder then Joe, the guy that copies a couple of genestealers then sold them to some little kid, only to see the kid get hosed and beat up by his local redshirt because he was stupid, and didn't know what he bought on E bay.
These are examples of people who have worked for the Evil Empire and been ground under its heel.

GW treats its talent like crap. I feel more for these people and the rest of the creative guys, the painters, and the artists etc. then I do for the souless corporate lackey types like HE WHO WON'T BE NAMED, and his neophytes.

Counterfiting is ripping off the artist, as much as underpaying him and selling the works for three times the price.

Dave47 wrote:
I strongly disagree with the use of the word "theft." We're talking about non-rivalrous goods here; you're not taking my paperback, but photocopying it and leaving me with the original. This is the heart of the difference between intellectual property and real property, and the language we use should reflect that distinction. I'll readily concede that commercial recasting is both illegal and immoral, but "theft" brings in a lot of real property analogies that I don't believe should be brought into the discussion. (Actually, I think the very term "intellectual property" creates a lot of bad analogies, but the term is common enough that it's a lot easier to accept it and move on.)

I'd have to disagree here. There's qualitatively no difference in theft of IP or theft of some physical object, if you believe that any kind of creative work should remain under the control of its creator, or from another angle, if creative work has any sort of value.

Dave47 wrote:
If you want to get all Kantian, you can only support a practice if it could safely be engaged in by everyone. If everyone cast their own miniatures, GW would collpase, and I would never have a new IG Codex. That's why we need to respect IP law. :-)

QFT

Kallbrand wrote:
And who made you the judge of that? Get off your high horse and get a reality check.

Being a rational human being who's previously done work (and hopes to do more work in the future and continue making a living off it) in realms covered by IP. Counterfeiting miniatures is a crime because it violates GW's IP to the miniatures being copied, and is a direct theft of GW's right to control its IP.

Kallbrand wrote:
The only thing thats similar is that both actions are illegal, but copyright crimes unless done on an industrial scale carries very low(if any punishment). Seeing someone spew out so blantant falsness really ticks me off.

And seeing people advocate or justify actions that essentially steal from people who make a living doing creative work ticks me off. Regardless, the scale here is irrelevant...as I said before, I'm talking qualitative, not quantitative.

Kilkrazy wrote:GW is a toy company. There is no moral obligation on them to make their products available for ‘affordable’ prices.

QFT

TheSecretSquig wrote:Can I please just check the 'Godly' people on here stating that counterfeit models are unlawful, morally wrong and all that good stuff, are the same people who have NEVER listened to a burned CD recording, or back in day, a tape recording, or own any sort of mp3 file made from a CD they do not own, or ever been to Maccy D's for a Mc Poo? I just want to check there are no hypercrites here, because that is one thing that gets on my back.

So your argument is that if you've ever done something wrong, you are excused from the responsibility to avoid doing wrong in the future, correct?

TheSecretSquig wrote:
A Games club chucks in and buys 1 copy of the Appoc books and forgeworld books (£50 to produce a book IS obscene) so that every member can use them for reference. Some people photocopy the relevent rules for their vehicles. Is this wrong.

Fair Use is a ridiculously loose topic, and I'm in no way qualified to make a legal judgement on that, but in general, making photocopies of copywritten materials for distribution is probably illegal. Having a club copy that people in the club reference as needed probably isn't.

TheSecretSquig wrote:
The guys making cardboard vehicles (and there are plenty on this site) based on GW's vehicles, should they all be burned? Or should GW be burned when they base their design's off other peoples? 2nd Wave of Tryanids looked a lot like the Alien models. Or my own personal 3 grudges......

1) Guy from Forgeworld at GW Notts comes to our table asking about the spaced armour I'd made for my Chimera, thats very nice he says, mind if I take some pictures, no probs I say. 6 months later, near idetical armour is released from Foreworld. .....

2) Guy from GW Notts store, I really like your 1k Sons Termintors, how'd you make them, so I tell him. 4 months later, an article on the GW Web site from the guy in the shop showing off his 1k sons Terminators......

3) Or my personal favourite, come up to GW Notts, we'll photograpgh all your LoD army, get it in White Dwarf. So I did. How'd you make the LoD bikes, so I tell him, write to me how you did it, what parts you used, we'll put it in the article,so I did. 8 months later, nothing in WD, but in the collectors Space Marine edition, a LoD bike made by the guy who invited me up to GW with an article on how he made it! This was over 10 years ago.

GW is a hobby and people will copy their hobby (even GW do it - see examples above). People will also input to their hobby, the rules for the Warhound Titan I practically wrote for Forgeworld after hours of playtesting their original crap rules (Titan stomp, repairable weapons all from my rules I sent them) and I don't have any acknowledgement from them, other than a 'Thank you' note from one of the staff.

Welcome to the wonderful world of creative work, where everyone vigorously protects the expression of their ideas, because funny enough, the ideas themselves are totally worthless.

TheSecretSquig wrote:
If their stuff is being copied it means one of 2 things:

1. They have a good product.
2. Its too expensive.

Don't forget:
3. Some people don't care if they're stealing from big bad GW.

Counterfiting is ripping off the artist, as much as underpaying him and selling the works for three times the price.

I wasn't aware that the illustrators and sculptors made their money from royalties of each model of theirs sold.

Grot 6 wrote:
GW treats its talent like crap. I feel more for these people and the rest of the creative guys, the painters, and the artists etc. then I do for the souless corporate lackey types like HE WHO WON'T BE NAMED, and his neophytes.

Counterfiting is ripping off the artist, as much as underpaying him and selling the works for three times the price.

GW's not the only one, and is by no means the most egregious in its treatment of creative personnel...

Heck, I've seen and heard of much, much, much, worse.

Then again, I've got friends who work in Hollywood.

ultramarine1 wrote:

Guess what I got for "Valentine's day".

What type of figure was it a fake of?

Not only that, who was the person who made this fake?

At least we can have a proper debate here on this.

Idea's unfortunately, are not copyright, your right, and my 3 examples above are proof of this, where GW have stolen my ideas. Whilst I myself would never mass produce something ilegally, nor would I go out my way to find it, if its offered to me and I personally want it and it saves me ££££, I'll buy it. For personal use, I wouldn't then try to sell it on as original.

GW themselves steal everyone's ideas (See 3 examples above), and take ideas from History. Why are there 18 Founding Space Marine Chapters? Because their structure was originally (I'm taking +20 yrs ago) based on the Roman Legion's structure, who had 18 Legions (That's why there are 2 deleted from records, to make 18). Rules changes are based on 1000's of inputs from players, with no acknowedgement to those people.

I bought some KO Models, I knew they were KO, but they are for me, and I would not sell them on. These same KO models were of good enough quality for GW to give me a painting award, and photograph the army for use on their web site.

10yrs ago I did a Space Marine Company of Lotd, costing £18 for 10 Man Squad. That same squad today from GW costs £110! An escalation year on year of almost 200%. The average is 4.5%. Some fair and reasonable pricing from GW there, ripe for KO's.

TheSecretSquig wrote:"I only copied One page, NOT the whole book."

Well, apparently under the 1988 Copyright, Designs and Patents Act I can photocopy up to 5% of a book for personal and non-commercial use, so it's not that clear cut.

I heard of a plastics engineer that made his own molds for IG tanks. They looked like S@#$ though from what I understand.

Howard A Treesong wrote:

TheSecretSquig wrote:"I only copied One page, NOT the whole book."

Well, apparently under the 1988 Copyright, Designs and Patents Act I can photocopy up to 5% of a book for personal and non-commercial use, so it's not that clear cut.

"Fair Use" absolutely essential in education when you only want people to read two pages of a book and not be required to purchase the entire book.

once GW makes a model, making a scratchbuilt that looks like GW's is stealing. You are coping their design thus stealing their IP. The guy scratch building 5 warhounds is the same as the guy copying 200 sisters figures.

a copy is a copy. some methods just produce better copies

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
No, I just don't see why some little scrote should benefit from anothers hard work.

If someone wants more of a particularly rare model, for example, Trenchraider and his Space Slaan, there is the morally netural approach of making your mold, and melting down existing GW models. GW get their cut, you get the models you are after.

The difference between downloads and knockoffs, is that downloads, whilst still not right, aren't lining *anyones* pockets.

I don't get the morally neutral approach here. So, is it OK to erase a Magic Card and reprint it as a Mox Ruby? Buy a Topps basball card and reprint it as a Babe Ruth rookie? Just because you paid the source company for material doesn't make it more moral or less amoral...

I'm not actually trying to be sarcastic but I can't find a way to word this without sounding like I'm flaming. I need more coffee.

That being said, GW really needs to understand that folks (at least in my area) have given up buying the models and just proxy everything due to costs. There is at least one store where the tourney organizer is fine with non-GW models as long as they fit. Other than the oh-so-important official tour circuit, once folks make the mental shift away from thinking they need official models to play the game, the genie will be out of the bottle. Hell, at some stores it already is. Kids using bloody coins as proxy models week after week.

Dammit, I'm ranting on low blood-caffeine levels.

to be blunt about the whole thing:

you can see GW charge alot for thier models, its a case of cant afford? dont play.

then someone thinks they can make some quick money by re-casting GW models and selling them at a discount.

GW do charge alot, but they also sculpt and mould the models, someone who is re-casting them simply makes a mould, GW's time and effort went into making each model, where as some little bastard has spent an hour or 2 casting them for a quick proffit.

scratch builds are not a direct copy of a model, neither are self sculpted models, so dont bring those into it.

the re-cast models are a direct copy intended to not only make a quick proffit, but to also fool people into buying what they think are GW products.


please, if you are offended by any of this, then dont waste either of our time with the matter, i wont be changing my views on this.

so, if you want to take offence and be TFG, go feth yourself

i think that was pretty short and sweet while going straight to the point

TheSecretSquig wrote:GW make a Vindicator Tank. Making your own Vindicator tank, using GW rules in a GW game is making a Counterfeit model, as you are claiming its a Vindicator.

Harsh line I agree, but that's the letter of the law.

No, it's a conversion or a scratch build. Both legal, both actively encouraged by GW.

Now, making a copy of the Vindicator sprue, casting it up, and then selling it on to unsuspecting people as the real deal, all of that is a no no.

I have access to a spin caster.
I still don't see the difference between making a plasticard nearly exact copy of a warhound and spinning out 200 sisters. neither i would sell and both infringe on GW's IP

skkiper, you have acess to a spin caster as you have stated, so do you cast your own models?

making a scratch build is not a copy towards GW, they love to see people making things like that.
however, they do not like to see people casting and selling thier models for a gain.

Scratch-building an exact duplicate still means you are not paying a dime to GW. I fail to see how there is much of a difference between that and making a mold+cast except for the amount of time (not money, resin molds are p expensive) required.

Is it the effort that you put in that gives it greater "value" for it? What if you mess up a bunch of molds and it requires the exact same or more effort, time, and money to create your master cast for a difficult piece?

ok, so how many people saying its fine to cast have actually casted stuff before (GW models that is) please be honest about this


stone, they are not making an exact copy of the models, they are making thier own one through time, effort and boredom
re-casting does take time and effort i guess, but, its still not making your own model, you just making an exact copy of a GW model to either sell, or save money on.

if you need to save money then make your own models through scratch building / kitbashing.

no I have not made any models yet. The time/work involved with casting is more expensive then buying the GW figs.
200 sisters are around $500-$600
I could just go to work on a saturday and bring home more.
scratchbuilding a copy of a model and selling it is the same as casting one and selling it.
since GW is "cool" with scratchbuilding copies for personal use, they then by befault are cool with somebody making copies of their models for personal use.
there is no legal difference between scratchbuilding a copy and casting a copy. a copy is a copy.

if you started scratchbuilding titans on an assembly line and started selling them. GW would shut you down. just as they shut down casters.

I have gotten recasted models from e-bay and the quality was good. If I knew they were fakes i would not have purchased.

These are similar:

Scratch-build a titan
Build a warboss from about 50% ork bitz and using other parts (plasticard, plasti-tubing, green-stuff, etc.) as necessary
Sculpt your own minis from a 'skeleton' and green stuff

The OP is NOT talking about someone sculpting their own Sisters, IG, Orks, or Marines.

The OP is talking about taking a mini from GW (or any gaming company), and 'reverse engineering' a mold and casting them.

There is a big difference between scratch-building and recasting. Using plasticard to 'scratch-build' a Land Raider that looks just like the GW LR is pretty shaky (I would guess it's illegal since it's still infringing on their IP). Scratch building a tank that is the same basic size and shape as a land raider, but looks different - that's legal, but may not be allowed in a tourney (by most RAW, it shouldn't be, the tourney organizer would probably let someone do it if the scratch build was 'cool' enough).

so the thought has crossed your mind since you seem to have thought about it.
which would explain why you defend it.

then why think about casting when you can earn the moey to buy the models?
only reason for that i can think of would be to sell on at a proffit.

can the dumb really get even dumber?
a scratch build lives up to its name for feth sake!
it is not the same product as GW produces.
a re-cast is.

no skkipper, a copy isnt a copy as you say, its a lame way of trying to defend something which you know is wrong.

please, show me an incident where this has been the case.


so now you go against what you 1st said?
if you wouldnt buy a copy then you know its wrong, and you have just contradicted what you say.

Hey secret squig, just a question since i know you are EBAY painter / seller.

This is just an example so dont say it sucks etc etc!

Say one day someone creates a machine that can scan / duplicate color on a miniature. Buys your painted miniature, and proceeded to clone the painted mini you sold , and sell the 1000s of minis he done that way for $100 each.

How does that make you feel?


Or another example. I go on and buy golden demon awarded minis for $400 . Use the machine, and produce it to resell for $100
"so everyone can enjoy the nice paint without the high price"

how do you think it makes the GD painters feel?

Skkipper and I are pretty much in agreement here. What exactly is the difference then? A copy is a copy is a copy.

I haven't done resin casting but I have had to make casts for one of my industrial engi classes. Resin casting is probably a lot easier than one-time-use sand casting, but I'm sure the air bubbles present make it a lot more difficult than working with molten lead for the casts themselves.

ok, so how many people saying its fine to cast have actually casted stuff before (GW models that is) please be honest about this

Ah. Perhaps this can be done at the same time those who vehemently oppose recasting declare that they have never once copied a music track for personal use.


edit:

then why think about casting when you can earn the moey to buy the models?
only reason for that i can think of would be to sell on at a proffit.

can the dumb really get even dumber?
a scratch build lives up to its name for feth sake!
it is not the same product as GW produces.
a re-cast is.

no skkipper, a copy isnt a copy as you say, its a lame way of trying to defend something which you know is wrong.

Guilty until proven innocent, is it? Oh wait, I think it's similar to, "If you have nothing to hide then why would you worry about the police searching/etc. you?"

stone, if i photocopied the mona lisa painting and tried to sell it as the real thing i would be in deep gak.

if i painted my own one its fine.

key part here is copyright and trying to sell things as your own, when they are someone elses work.


look at any scratch build being sold on ebay, they state its a scratch build and not the real thing.

people re-casting models sell them as the origional product, when really they are a copy.

why consider it?
well there are models you just can't buy anymore in quanities to build an army out of.
making recasts for yourself is the same as scratchbuild copies.
try to sell scratchbuilt titans as a business GW will shut you down. why? because the scratchbuilt is infringing their IP. am i wrong. Several companies have been shut down for selling "titans" though they were scratchbuilt

skkipper wrote:why consider it?
well there are models you just can't buy anymore in quanities to build an army out of.
making recasts for yourself is the same as scratchbuild copies.
try to sell scratchbuilt titans as a business GW will shut you down. why? because the scratchbuilt is infringing their IP. am i wrong. Several companies have been shut down for selling "titans" though they were scratchbuilt

Recast is nothing like scratchbuild / original sculpts.
Knowing how to recast is one thing, but knowing how to sculpt from balls of green stuff?
without the need to come up with original design sand such?

way different.

@JD: You are the one assuming that all recasts are meant to be sold and that those of us arguing for it are wholly doing so for that reason. That may be the OP's subject but I thought there were two concurrent topics: the original OP's subject and the "morality" of recasting for the sake of personal use.