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In modern Air Force terms...

A SECTION (or ELEMENT) represents two - three aircraft (in USAAF typically 2)... A Section is 2 aircraft

A FLIGHT represents two SECTIONS... A Flight is 4 aircraft.

A SQUADRON represents three - four FLIGHTS (in USAAF typically 4)... A Squadron is 16 aircraft.

In Games Workshop terms...

A SQUADRON is three of anything

Hence, the tongue in cheek question... Flock or Swarm?

Since, in FOC games... Squadrons of 3 aircraft will be used.

While in Apocalypse... we will be seeing "groups" of 10 - 20 Valkyries (for example) in many games.

It's the same reasoning that asks "Why did Kamakazie pilots wear 'crash helmets'... in case they got hurt???

We all know that there will be many IG players with s*** loads of Valkyries deep striking to the sound of "Ride of...you know..." in their mind.

I just wondered about a gamers term for such sights on the Apocalyptic battlefield.

Mik

Nice try.

Do not try to circumvent the profanity filter.

-Iorek

the Dude wrote:Planet Strike will supposedly come sooner than expected. I’m told July at the latest.

New terrain such as a multipart plastic kit similar to the Cities of Death ruins. With enough of those you will possibly be able to build fortresses, defensive structures for tanks, or control towers, outposts etc. Also some new craters and other stuff that wasn’t expanded on.

Plastic Thunderhawk is again mentioned.

Sounds good to me!

I'm excited over the possible fortresses & defensive stuff - sounds like much-needed Bunkers might be possible.

Thawk, really? Wow!

Thats one vote...

IF the music is ON...

Then its a "gakker" of Valkyries

Mik

edit: It will not let ME use that word... how did you do that?

I can´t imagine races like Eldar and nids defending fixed positions. I don´t think those codex will be able to support the idea of garrison troops without big changes.

M.

Miguelsan wrote:I can´t imagine races like Eldar and nids defending fixed positions. I don´t think those codex will be able to support the idea of garrison troops without big changes.

M.

Watch Ants defend their mound, viscous little bastards.

Cyporiean wrote:

Miguelsan wrote:I can´t imagine races like Eldar and nids defending fixed positions. I don´t think those codex will be able to support the idea of garrison troops without big changes.

M.

Watch Ants defend their mound, viscous little bastards.

Hell yeah. Home turf advantage what with being over a hive and access to a constant influx of reinforcement. For every one that dies, two replace it.

yeah I can see a very strong rationale for any army to be on the defensive side, even the army-formerly-known-as-always-attacking (dark eldar) while not very good at defending can and do do it on occasion I am sure. The have to defend against slaanesh somehow and running like a puss isn't always the answer.

The ants have to live there, the nids are doing a pit stop only it might not be in the hive mind best interest to defend a "fortification" spending huge resources when it can rebuild it in some other place for less.

M.

Miguelsan wrote:The ants have to live there, the nids are doing a pit stop only it might not be in the hive mind best interest to defend a "fortification" spending huge resources when it can rebuild it in some other place for less.

M.

Ok well since we are going for fluff rationale (which is after all you really need to justify what the rules call for) perhaps the tyranids are in desperate need of resources and cannot afford to simply pack up and leave that resource of vital importance to them. Its been a long journey to the next planet and the nornqueen simply orders them to hold that position at all costs for the good of the brood.

Thats just one example.

I personally don't care who thinks what or why an army should or shouldn't do something, there is always a way to justify an action in someway.
But if the rules allow such aggressive armies as tyranids and darkeldar to be a defender in a mission (which I imagine wouldn't likely be a very consistent occurrence), then its best to figure out why they would do it instead of arguing about the impossibilities of such an act.

One example of an attacking army having to defend is the 3rd ed Elysian drop troops chapter approved list.

When you played that army, games you and your opponent played were restricted to 6 different missions, which were randomly rolled.

One of those missions was catching the normally aggressive drop troops off guard and they had to be the defender deploying normally (no deepstrike) so in that instance they were a a severe disadvantage. You just simply cannot always be the agressor. Sometimes you yourself get ambushed and you have to deal with it.

Plus think of it this way. You are an Imperial Guard general. You have enough forces to take some away from the defensive line and enact a counter-attack on the Tyranids.

You attack them, and technically speaking the Tyranids would be defending because you are attacking them. Sure, the Tyranid form of defence is to just attack you back, but you're the one who instigated the assault, therefore you are the attacker.

Lord Castellan Mik wrote:In modern Air Force terms...

A SECTION (or ELEMENT) represents two - three aircraft (in USAAF typically 2)... A Section is 2 aircraft

A FLIGHT represents two SECTIONS... A Flight is 4 aircraft.

A SQUADRON represents three - four FLIGHTS (in USAAF typically 4)... A Squadron is 16 aircraft.

In Games Workshop terms...

A SQUADRON is three of anything

Hence, the tongue in cheek question... Flock or Swarm?

Since, in FOC games... Squadrons of 3 aircraft will be used.

While in Apocalypse... we will be seeing "groups" of 10 - 20 Valkyries (for example) in many games.

It's the same reasoning that asks "Why did Kamakazie pilots wear 'crash helmets'... in case they got hurt???

We all know that there will be many IG players with s*** loads of Valkyries deep striking to the sound of "Ride of...you know..." in their mind.

I just wondered about a gamers term for such sights on the Apocalyptic battlefield.

Mik

I will say that Abnett seemed to get his terminology mostly right when it came to this kind of thing in Double Eagle, although I don't remember him referring to Sections - Flights and Squadrons mainly...

It always gets complicated when you add 'real world' terminology with 'game world' activities. To keep the game real, they often incorporate SOME 'real' terms into the mix... so by using common terms for somethings and pure fantasy for others stabilises the gamers interest.

Thats one reason why Apocalypse and the potential of Planetstrike is so appealing (to me anyway) in that FOC style is a 'strategy and tactics game' and Apocalypse is more involved, coz technically its not a 'matched' game... FOC is though, due to the precise points restictiveness, and you MUST play tactically to make use of limited assets.

Similar with CoD, which did wonders for the 'game board', and incorporated with RoB, is no longer flat and two dimensional. The posibility of new terrain focusing upon defensive positions is another breakthrough for game play style.

On that note, is there any more info regarding terrain posibilities other than being similar to CoD in design.

Mik

I think we know what happens when Imperial Guard attacks Tyranid home turf...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN7OdT1lQQ0

As far as we know nids don´t have warrens they biofacture everything on orbit and drop it down. But I always loved SST movie for the poor bloody IG look it had unlike the book power armored guys.

M.

There are reports of Tyranids staying on some captured worlds doing what appears to be sustainable agriculture rather than just strip mining it all in one go.

That´s news to me.

M.

Cyporiean wrote:Watch Ants defend their mound, viscous little bastards.

Yeah, they're like honey mixed with gycerine, the vicious little bastards...
____

Hellfury wrote:Home turf advantage what with being over a hive and access to a constant influx of reinforcement. For every one that dies, two replace it.

Ever see what happens when Giant Hornets invade a Bee hive?

It ain't pretty...

H.B.M.C. wrote:Would anyone consider me mad if I bought a Thunderhawk, painted it up (bog-standard Ultramarine 2nd Company T-Hawk)... and then dropped it from a great hight (or hit it with a hammer as an alternative) in order to break it and make it into a crashed T-Hawk terrain piece?

I'd do it with a Forge World one only I'm sure before I could do it my wallet would achieve sentience and kill me.

Ha, there is a wrecked one at the battle bunker in MD, a FW one at that!

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Ever see what happens when Giant Hornets invade a Bee hive?

Gotta love those American nature documentaries! DRA-MA-TIC!

BoxANT wrote:I think we know what happens when Imperial Guard attacks Tyranid home turf...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN7OdT1lQQ0

Good call, I've never watched Starship Troopers thinking of the Guard and Nids, sadly it's the closest we'll get to a 40K movie.

Who knows, maybe the book will give suggestions on how to thrown certain armies into the defence. Dark Eldar are by nature a fast moving force so on the defence one might imagine them lurking in the ruins performing hit and run attacks on the attacker.

BrookM wrote:Who knows, maybe the book will give suggestions on how to thrown certain armies into the defence. Dark Eldar are by nature a fast moving force so on the defence one might imagine them lurking in the ruins performing hit and run attacks on the attacker.

... and if their means to escape have been destroyed then they may have to dig in

Wolfstan wrote:

BrookM wrote:Who knows, maybe the book will give suggestions on how to thrown certain armies into the defence. Dark Eldar are by nature a fast moving force so on the defence one might imagine them lurking in the ruins performing hit and run attacks on the attacker.

... and if their means to escape have been destroyed then they may have to dig in

True, but that would really be a last resort, I'd imaging them to keep mobile and raid as long as possible when attacked.

We all know if that happened, DE would run outside their base as the enemy took it, and then once outside, assault the base.

Lord Castellan Mik wrote:In modern Air Force terms...

A SECTION (or ELEMENT) represents two - three aircraft (in USAAF typically 2)... A Section is 2 aircraft

A FLIGHT represents two SECTIONS... A Flight is 4 aircraft.

A SQUADRON represents three - four FLIGHTS (in USAAF typically 4)... A Squadron is 16 aircraft.

In Games Workshop terms...

A SQUADRON is three of anything

Hence, the tongue in cheek question... Flock or Swarm?

Since, in FOC games... Squadrons of 3 aircraft will be used.

While in Apocalypse... we will be seeing "groups" of 10 - 20 Valkyries (for example) in many games.

It's the same reasoning that asks "Why did Kamakazie pilots wear 'crash helmets'... in case they got hurt???

We all know that there will be many IG players with s*** loads of Valkyries deep striking to the sound of "Ride of...you know..." in their mind.

I just wondered about a gamers term for such sights on the Apocalyptic battlefield.

Mik

I prefer the Star Wars version.

Two fighters are a wing-group

Four ar a flight with one being flight leader.

12 are a squadron with one being squadron leader.

Yeah Rogue Squadron!

BoxANT wrote:We all know if that happened, DE would run outside their base as the enemy took it, and then once outside, assault the base.

They would probably booby trap the hell out of it in the process.

I'd love if they released tarantula sentry guns in plastic. But all you really need is the guns off a razorback and some legs for them to stand on!

Anyone have any good cheap tips on how to make mines? Minefields are gonna be popular.

This guy had some great workshops on that back in the day:

Miguelsan wrote:As far as we know nids don´t have warrens they biofacture everything on orbit and drop it down.

True, but they still MUST gather resources, as they are by their very nature a parasitic race. Defending a position while rippers and other gribblies gather those vital resources is one of the larger bugs jobs, as they do not strictly do the dirty work of making soup for the norn queen. They support the working class bugs to make sure the jobs gets done to feed the hive.

Its a tough job for warrior class bugs to guard genestealers who explore strange new worlds, who seek out new life and destroy civilizations, who boldy go where no bug has gone before.

Really, the parallels of ants and tyranids is almost if though GW based the tyranid design off of insects who have instinctual collective hivemind behavior...

[edit] Imagine a tyranid force from one hive desperately defending their resources from...yet another hive collective. Its easily and very much within the realm of possibility. Just because GW doesn't write a story about something doesn't mean one should restrict their own creativity to match a story that is written.

Hellfury wrote:Just because GW doesn't write a story about something doesn't mean one should restrict their own creativity to match a story that is written.

Quoted for truth. I can think of a bunch of reasons and situations for every 40k race to be on the defensive, especially at the tactical level (which is what 40k battles represent).