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DarkHound wrote:Oh man, I've got several good ones: Tank Bustas, Possessed Chaos Space Marines, Noise Marines, Chaos Bikers... but I think I'll choose Ork Warbuggies.

I run my buggies with anything, although I'm growing more fond of Skorchas. Two or three of them Tank Shocking 12" can force the enemy into very tight formations, which are great for dropping templates on. Generally they don't survive after that, but they're so cheap its easy to get a return on your investment.

Are you sure that you meant Warbuggies? I ask because my version of the codex they are not listed as being tanks.


As to how I'd use them,.....My first thought is to use them with Skorchas and used in tandem with the bikers. Use them like Shermans march to the sea, burn everything.

War buggies are actually used as often as Deffkoptas aren't taken, the provide a 105 point 3 TLRL screening unit.

They stop assaults, draw fire, protect battlewagons and can hurt AV 14.

Yeah rokkit buggies are great. Cheap, fast, twin-lined str8 ap 3 vehicles. They do a similar job to deffkoptaz but are

waaaaay cheeaper
a bit more resilient to heavy weapons fire
fearless - this is key. Koptaz don't work in any size between 1 and 5. You can take 3 buggies to spam cheap mobile rokkits.

And they screen other vehicles.

And can contest.

focusedfire wrote:Are you sure that you meant Warbuggies? I ask because my version of the codex they are not listed as being tanks.


As to how I'd use them,.....My first thought is to use them with Skorchas and used in tandem with the bikers. Use them like Shermans march to the sea, burn everything.

You are correct sir! I know the rule, but I have this mentality that any vehicle that isn't a walker can tank shock. Sorry. Still, other vehicles (Trukks with Rams, which might be why I keep getting that rule wrong) Tank Shocking alongside allows for some cheap damage.

I like the rokkit buggies, although I find my lists have enough ranged anti-tank. Scorchabuggies have a particular charm for me because my board is basically always Cities of Death. The combination of fast, small, and terrain ignoring vehicles is a dream come true. I'll be honest though, I don't bring them much outside of our board.

DarkHound wrote:

focusedfire wrote:Are you sure that you meant Warbuggies? I ask because my version of the codex they are not listed as being tanks.


As to how I'd use them,.....My first thought is to use them with Skorchas and used in tandem with the bikers. Use them like Shermans march to the sea, burn everything.

You are correct sir! I know the rule, but I have this mentality that any vehicle that isn't a walker can tank shock. Sorry. Still, other vehicles (Trukks with Rams, which might be why I keep getting that rule wrong) Tank Shocking alongside allows for some cheap damage.

I like the rokkit buggies, although I find my lists have enough ranged anti-tank. Scorchabuggies have a particular charm for me because my board is basically always Cities of Death. The combination of fast, small, and terrain ignoring vehicles is a dream come true. I'll be honest though, I don't bring them much outside of our board.

I like skorcha buggies too although my own experience with them has been vary varied. The first few times I used them opponents didn't expect much and they managed to do things like roast en entire genestealer brood or fire warrior squad. Which is a healthy return on pts. Then players got wise and they just started dying. It's not even like they do much in the way of drawing firepower away since they're so fragile.

But yeah the potential to kill a very nasty and much expensive squad on a fast platform at 40pts. Whats not to love. Its just that most ork lists aren't hurting for stuff that can kill troops but are lacking in anti-tank so the spare pts left over after boyz, klawz and your flavour of klaw/boy delivery system (wagons, trukks, kanzwall, grot shield) usually go to anti-tank stuff.

They are absolutely brutal in cities of death though. They do 2D6 hits right (or is it D6, haen't played in a while), can re-roll dangerous terrain, ignore cover whilst shooting but can grab it like nobody's business for themselves. 120pts worth of skorchas would more than earn its pts back in death dealt on a cityfight board.

OK, it is time for somebody to post another unit that is considered near-hopless. whom ever posts their idea first will set the topic.

Then everyone will post ways of using the unit, or at least minimizing the effect of it being in your list, to the best of their ability.

How about SM Vanguard Veterans? I know they're pretty good if you get them into combat, but their upgrades (for the entire squad anyway) can sky-rocket in cost, not to mention having to buy the jump packs.

However I'm not talking about BA Vanguard here, as they're more cost-effective, what with their 'Descent of Angels' special rule.

Don't take the jump-packs, put them in a land raider attached to an IC, add a few cool cc spec weps but not too many that the squad goes to more than about 250pts.

Charge at thing, destroy thing.

Vanguard are good its just they'll never be cost effective and no matter what tactics you use that won't change. So if you don't mind the price tag use them as a big beat face hammer unit.

I don't like Robin's approach. You have to look at what unique thing they bring to the army. Space Marines have better melee beat sticks. What they otherwise don't have is a unit that can assault off the deepstrike. Keep them small, give them a tank killing weapon (Thunderhammer/Powerfist) and let them trounce the back field. 'But it isn't accurate enough to be relied on!' Ah, but that is why the EMPRAH graced us with Locator Beacons. Use Vanguard Vets in conjunction with a STEEHL REIHN list, or Scout Bikers. Drop Pods come down, Devastators and Tacticals open transports, Vanguard do clean-up.

Time for the next unit.......................Many people have expressed a dislike for this next units abilities.

How about Pariahs?

Are they useless or could you find a way to use them in your army?

Piriahs have a very specific application. They aren't Necrons, so can't benefit from any of the Necron's mobility (Monoliths, Veil of Darkness, Jetbike movement). They don't add to your Necron count, so they are points that your opponent doesn't have to kill. What they do is kill things with good saves, especially on the Invulnerable end, and are bring some minor anti-psycher to the board.

I like them for Necrons having issues with CSM Daemon Princes, Tzeentch daemons (and daemons in general), Assault Terminators, sometimes Eldar and Mech Orks (not big enough to get Mob rule, so that forced Ld7 really hurts). They've got the firepower of an Immortal, so they aren't totally useless besides those.

hey since we already covered popehead and shadowninja wannabe, how about Tau who thinks he's a montrous creature?
any uses for farsight besides crisis spam? (which i denounce as it can be done cheaper in a normal list by about 10 pts per model)

Hmmm... That would be tough... I can say he is good at popping vehicles but then that would just be a lie... I would say he could hold his own in CC by himself but a 3+ and a 4++ is not enough to deal with hidden powerfist...




Automatically Appended Next Post:
I personally think the Farsight Bomb is the way to go with the MC wanna-be...

dbsamurai wrote:hey since we already covered popehead and shadowninja wannabe, how about Tau who thinks he's a montrous creature?
any uses for farsight besides crisis spam? (which i denounce as it can be done cheaper in a normal list by about 10 pts per model)

Sure, I've got a build idea that I've been kicking around for a while.

It is a foot slogging high VoF army for use in higher point games. Mind you that this is an idea list that has no upper point limit unril it has been finished.

HQ1-Farsight and five bodyguards, Hidden in the unit is a Posi Relay on one mode and a Fail-safe detonator on a cheap model. The rest of the unit (2 with Plas, FB, & Targ Array) + (2 with TL MP & posi relay/Failsafe)+(1 with AFP & Flamer) then add Hard wired Multi Trackers, Target locks, and Drones for wound allocation Call it 550-ish


Elite 1- 2 XV8 w/ 1HW TL, 2 (TL FB & 2Flamer) about 98

Elite 2- 2 XV8 w/ 1HW TL, 2 (TL FB & 2Flamer) about 98

Elite 3- 2 XV8 w/ 1HW TL, 2 (TL FB & 2Flamer) about 98


Troops 1- 9 FW + Shas'ui bonded + Photon about 120

Troops 1- 9 FW + Shas'ui bonded + Photon about 120

Troops 1- 9 FW + Shas'ui bonded + Photon + EMP about 150

Troops 1- 9 FW + Shas'ui bonded + Photon + EMP about 150

Warfish about 120


FA 1- 6 PF + Shas'ui bonded + Warfish about 192

FA 2- 4 Piranha about 300


HS 1- 3 XV88 Team lead bonded + Plas + TA + 2 Shield drones + 1 Tarf Lock about 315

HS 2- Cheap railhead about 165


That is just a rough list. give me time and I will refine it a bit more. Say for 2 more troops.

This is a move forward and blast'em build. One or two of the FW teams will be equipped with carbines. The posi relay will be dropping the Fusioon suits in.

OK dbsamurai, How would you tweak this build?, While keeping Farsight, the suits and a buch of FW's.

I always think if you go farsight go all the way with the Farsight and the full seven samurai with targeting arrays, 8 relentless plasma rifles and 7 fusion guns at BS 4 along with 14 shield drones is a ridiculous unit (both in size and cost), but it's fire power is prodigious and it's survivability is respectable.

While we're on Tau, how about Vespids?

What about them? The thread is open now for anyone to propose a purported underacheiving unit and then challenge the rest of ust to find a use for them.

The Vespids fit nicely into lower point games where Pathfinders and piranha are too cost Prohibitive. The points level I run them at is the 750 to 1000 pt games. The list is where I run a bunch of monats to spread my opponent fire across to many targets. The Vespids become my cleanup crew for whatever spills out of a transport when I destroy it. This leaves my FW's free to move towards their objectives.


Now, It is your turn to Punch holes in my method of use or present a better use for them.

If you can't do either, then We move on to my next proposed unit. I'm gonna stick with the fump-infantry themme and ask you dakkites to figure a better use for the Swwoping Hawks?

Remember, you can go back and debate any unit already mentioned/covered.

I understand the thread, that's what I was proposing, how would you make Vespids work.

How many Vespids did you run? The minimum size squad is 10 points more than a bare bones piranha, and a full squad is only 10 points less than a 6 man pathfinder squad with it's DF equipped with SMS, Dpods, and MT.

Lets see here,

Pros:
AP 3 weapon
Skilled flyer
Can use markerlights as long as the strain leader lives.

Cons:
Short Range
5+ saves
BS 3
low number of shots

Questionable value:
Fleet

The best use I've had of them is having a unit trail along with the DF for a mobile bunker, and when the fire warriors popped out to FoF they jump to the flank and add their fire power.

I've also used them deep striking next to small squads, like long fangs or devestators, with markerlight support to strip cover and gun them down.

The problem is keeping them alive past their one volley, and they are too expensive a unit to just make into a throw away squad.

Swooping Hawks?

Yo-yo them the whole game and hope they can land and contest on something turn 5? Meanwhile drop the so-so grenade on targets?

Give them haywire grenades and go tank hunting?

An assault screen for shining spears to make sure the spears get the charge?

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:Swooping Hawks?

Yo-yo them the whole game and hope they can land and contest on something turn 5? Meanwhile drop the so-so grenade on targets?

Give them haywire grenades and go tank hunting?

An assault screen for shining spears to make sure the spears get the charge?

All of the above. They're fair at shooting GEQs, are a threat tanks, and have astounding speed and reach. Use them to harass the enemy, trade them for a Landraider around turn 2, or steal an objective at the end of the game. Honestly, I like them so long as you don't Yo-yo. That doesn't do enough damage to warrent their cost. Their presence on the field is much more valuable.

I have a similar thread on fire warriors.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/299640.page
I would appreciate any feedback . You guys got some great stuff here.

Hurm...dunno how well this would work but an idea I've been kicking around (and ima get crucified here) is that
at least to me it seems like the Tau HQs are geared more towards combat (Crisis HQs have space marine stats, which while not ideal against IC are kick ass at contesting, and the ethereal can be given all sorts of (for tau) flashy CQB weapons
so run farsight and an ethereal (since you cant use Aun'va can u?) as your anti chargers, go with only two bodyguards, kit him out with the regular bodyguard pariphinalia for survival (shield drones and such) and give the guards TL somethings with failsafe detonators (which IMO should be infantry HW wargear not suit wargear, but thats codex quibbling for another thread) and give the ethereal a small squad of HIS bodyguards, use the shooty tau to soften targets (which now that i think about it is pointless with your TOF list, so mabye nix the FW bodyguards) and get Farsight into combat. if you lose, GTFO and blow them to pieces with your cheap bodyguard suits
in the meantime spend the points you save on something else to beef ur units up
my big qualm with running the full 7 man squad with farsight is it's too big. Crisis suits are already hard to cover save, a problem only worsened when you have SEVEN RIGHT NEXT TO EACH OTHER
i mean, can you say TARGET?
ergo, i would run farsight and his team small, use them as a countercharge to make up for your lack of kroot, and if you lose combat blow your enemy to kingdom come
then use the points you save on another FW squad
To that end i wouldn't suggest burst cannons on Farsight's guards, prolly flamers if you want IN YOUR FACEness, or FB for that good tank squishin'
o and all squads that can take bonding knives get them for free in farsight's armies, so that'd make the barebones FW squads (12 guys, sgt, bonded) 5pts less, as well as crisis suits, and broadsides, and pathfinders, etc etc
which adds up to a lot of spare points