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Shenra wrote:It's in space...no ultraviolet rays...so darkskinned peoples would eventually get lighter and lighter as time progressed, the same way people get darker and darker when they spend time under the sun...hence people closer to the equator are darker than those far away from. Well, in space no one walks around in a bikini or naked, so skin isn't exposed to skin darkening radiation. Space marines started out black...but hundreds or thousands of years in space turned them caucasian.


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Isn't it nice to know as soon as we become a spacefaring culture skin color based racism will fade away?

You do realise people go on planets as well right?
The entirety of 40k isn't all in space.

Cryonicleech wrote:I was thinking that most people paint skin white because, as a miniature is small in scale, the face (which is the primary part of the exposed skin) is the main focal point, and to have it dark could potentially draw away from this part of the model. Then again, I'm no art expert.

Still, I've run my multi-racial WHFB Marauder unit with great success.

That is part of it too... Dark skin is harder to pull off. You want the face to be the focal point, and the eyes are naturally drawn to lighter shade... hence why price winning minis usually go all the way to pure white in the face (especially brows, cheekbones, etc)... so yeah, hard to do without making it look silly when you have a black skinned character.

I've taken painting class with a multiple golden daemon winner, and he pretty much said as such... said that's why the first level class didn't include any tip on painting darker skin.

Anyway its easier than it looks, in my case i used two brown tones, a dark one as a basis (obviously) and the other brown depicts the maximum brightness of the skin and make all paint capes form one to another... in fact, maybe easier, because you don't have to care about taint washes....

Shenra wrote:

You do realise people go on planets as well right?
The entirety of 40k isn't all in space.

Black Corsair wrote:Anyway its easier than it looks, in my case i used two brown tones, a dark one as a basis (obviously) and the other brown depicts the maximum brightness of the skin and make all paint capes form one to another... in fact, maybe easier, because you don't have to care about taint washes....

Have you won painting competition with black models tho? If so, hat off to you...

I'm not saying it's not possible to make a good looking mini with dark tones... but when you're going to international painting competition, you probably don't want the extra hurdle. Same thing for the folk at 'Eavy Metal, they want the best looking model to showcase... and it's easier to create a focal point with lighter tones - you can't argue against that, it's true.

Most painting judges won't give you extra point just because you decided to make your space marine captain of african decent... they care about the end product really. And the space marine captain with a lighter skin color will pop more and thus, get more attention and most likely, a better grading...

And essentially, when pictures get reprinted in magazine or online... it's the price winners and 'best of', which makes finding pictures of dark skinned models even harder.

Shenra wrote:

purplefood wrote:
You do realise people go on planets as well right?
The entirety of 40k isn't all in space.

They go on planets...clad in armor, under the haze of smoke from battle, fight and then pull back. Or are you saying they are out there naked, in the sunlight, for the majority of their lives? We're not talking a light tan here...we're talking enough sun exposure to affect your genetic code.

What are you on about?

the majority of space marines live in monestries when not at war, and only wear armour during training or battle.

the majority of space marine recruits come from worlds that travel round a sun, the same as the majority of most other humans in the IoM.

In most cases skin tone is genetic, if a black african moved to sweden his skin tone wouldn't become less black.

this isn't like today...when you go on a year's tour, or spend 3-4 years in the military and then get out. Space marines can be hundreds of years old (if you read the fluff), and more than likely military families' kids are more likely to join than your average citizen.

In addition, I agree that people paint their models what they want to. But trying to answer the question fluff-wise, why would the majority of humans be light skinned in future combat roles? I believe my explanation has logical merit. More and more time spent on spaceships, spacestations, and in armor...less and less time spent hunting on the plains of Africa or India or working up a sweat in heat of the South or south america. Plus we have more and more interracial relationships, which also lighten the skin tone. Look at your typical African American and compare to a Native African...99 times out of a 100 the skin is lighter. Climate plus breeding equals change in skin tone.

Shenra wrote: Look at your typical African American and compare to a Native African...99 times out of a 100 the skin is lighter. Climate plus breeding equals change in skin tone.

it has nothing to do with climate, the average African Americans look different from the average central/west coast African (where most slaves came from) due to the harsh life of slaves and the way they wear bought lead to a form of selective breeding, that is why many African Americans have a predeliction to large hieght and muscle gain, just look at the NBA and NFL.

Do you even know what you're talking about? Name one darkskinned race that comes from Norway or Canada or northern Russia. Name one light skinned race that comes from an equator location. You can't.

So here's a lesson since it appears you didn't know. Skin color is the result of geography. The closer your ancestors lived to the equator, the darker you are. Or did you think it coincidence that swedish people are so white and ethiopians so dark? That latinos are darker than the english? And even people born with dark skin will grow lighter if not exposed to the sun on a regular basis while that same dark skinned person will get even darker if he or she is outside everyday. Likewise, a pale skinned person will get incredibly dark if they move to the equator and stay outside, uncovered everyday. Not you multiply that by hundreds of generations and it gets into your genes. That's called evolution, folks.

As far as space marines being in a monastary...yeah good point. Because people in monastaries hang out at the pool everyday...oh yeah, that's right...they spend alot of time indoors praying, covered from head to toe in robes. Thanks for making my point for me.


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oh yeah, and our planet travels around the sun...but that's funny, all kind of pale skinned people everywhere...now how'd that happen?

Any space marine can be black and maybe many are as much are covered in a helmet. Salamanders are certainly and i know of hispanic crimson fist names? I think people just paint what they know, its probably not a conscious effort

This may sound odd but negro skin is harder to paint convincingly, caucasion always complements the color scheme as nothing else on the model is (pink) flesh coloured. If i distill it to complete objectivity, you don't want to paint the skin the same colour as the brown leather ammo pouches. I must stress this is complete objectivity and not a racial slur.

It could be that because the emperor was white all other ethnicities were wiped out after his 'death'. More likely is that over the many years all the races homogenised creating the high gothic people.

Rube wrote:It's the same reason so few models are women - because the majority of the players are white and male, so of course they want white male characters in their army! Statistically, white men are the most racist, sexist people on the planet.

melta madness wrote:some of the scaryest warriors in history have been black the zulus mr t etc

7/10

I was under the impression that out of aaall the people in the world white folk enjoying killing others whites the most. It's not an ethnicity thing.. more of a race thing, as in the entire human race.

But in all seriousness that's not cool.

I honestly painted my minis in a lighter skin tone because it's easier to bring out the details that way.

Shenra wrote:So here's a lesson since it appears you didn't know. Skin color is the result of geography. The closer your ancestors lived to the equator, the darker you are. Or did you think it coincidence that swedish people are so white and ethiopians so dark? That latinos are darker than the english? And even people born with dark skin will grow lighter if not exposed to the sun on a regular basis while that same dark skinned person will get even darker if he or she is outside everyday. Likewise, a pale skinned person will get incredibly dark if they move to the equator and stay outside, uncovered everyday. Not you multiply that by hundreds of generations and it gets into your genes. That's called evolution, folks.

you are misunderstanding how evolution works

Shenra wrote:Do you even know what you're talking about? Name one darkskinned race that comes from Norway or Canada or northern Russia. Name one light skinned race that comes from an equator location. You can't.

Egyptians.

Shenra wrote:So here's a lesson since it appears you didn't know. Skin color is the result of geography. The closer your ancestors lived to the equator, the darker you are. Or did you think it coincidence that swedish people are so white and ethiopians so dark? That latinos are darker than the english? And even people born with dark skin will grow lighter if not exposed to the sun on a regular basis while that same dark skinned person will get even darker if he or she is outside everyday. Likewise, a pale skinned person will get incredibly dark if they move to the equator and stay outside, uncovered everyday. Not you multiply that by hundreds of generations and it gets into your genes. That's called evolution, folks.

This is correct. It works this way with everything - if you run lots, you become better at running. Run enough and it gets into your genes and you become a horse or something. It's the path evolution picks for a species.

Seriously though, melanin protects against cancer. If you're near the equator where there's more sun and a thinner aptmosphere you're more likely to get skin cancer. Natural selection ensures those with DNA that produces more melanin will breed. Tanning also produces melanin, but it doesn't change your DNA (trololo...).

ChrisWWII wrote:Also, after 38,000 years don't you think that the skin colors we know exist today might not exist anymore? There is a high possibility that the average skin tone across the Imperium could be much paler today.

Best answer ever!! Given the mixing of the races that would occur over the extensive time span of 38,000 years... and the "Space-faring/sky choked smoggy Forge Worlds, and nearly subterranean Hive World" aspect of the game, skin darkening melanin would been less necessary.

Did you also notice that in a lot of fluff, most of the Space Marines have "Blunted Features." This could be taken as a "mixing" of the negroid/mongoloid/caucoid features.

It is highly unlikely that any of the "races" we recognize today would even be in existence in the year 40,000.

undivided wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:mikhaila:

I remember this awful show on Spike TV that was basically an hour of martial-arts oriented nerds trash-talking each other and using traditional weapons on pieces of meat and sparring dummies. It was called "Ultimate Warrior" or somesuch. Anyhow, the zulus were on that.

Maledictus:

I agree. ph34r's gotta learn how to spell 'colour' before he criticizes another dude's lettering-arranging.

Ok, quite off-topic but, American English brother. Color = Colour

In Canada we spell it joke.

Part of it may be a subconscious thing. You will probably paint the skin similar to the art you see, in WD or just what your friends have done or look like. It is also not as easy to paint African skin tones compared to euro ones. Also to the guy who said why don’t they wear sombreros, that would be hard to paint as well, or olive skin tones for that matter. My marines tend to be a mix, but that’s just me. However my daemonettes are a very pale skin, why? Because the art portrays them that way, and I see them as otherworldly, and their descriptions state that’s how they look. It will be each their own in the end.

Regards,
Carl

I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned already, but I'm pretty sure the skin colour of all Marines can change rapidly depending on UV levels. Its just another one of their built in defence mechanisms against harsh environments. In space there is very little or no UV, so their skin tends to be very white. Once they land on a planet their skin will rapidly darken to protect them from UV, even to the point that they appear black if radiation levels are high enough. However as Marines don't usually spend much time on planets anyway (they drop in, kill everything and leave) most of the time they will appear white. Salamanders are the notable exception, they are permanently dark skinned due to their geneseed + radiation on their home world.

Egyptians were also one of the first nations to have slaves from many other nations. I believe I already stated breeding is another reason why skin color lightens.


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and I know how evolution works thank you. Obviously I'm not the one with the misunderstanding.

Oh yeah, and Egyptians were heavily influenced by other races...like Persians, Hebrews, etc. Egypt was THE center of civilization back in the day...attracted all sorts of races.

I feel it is important to point out that nearly every Space Marine has been black at one point or another thanks to this little doo-hickey in their skin.

LoL Was this a deliberate attempt to troll dakka into a racial argument? Seems to have worked.

the "every marine was black because of black carapace" argument stands the truest of all. like it or not, you're all black inside. hahaha

kronk wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Kurgash wrote:It's funny, the only known Black man I knew of in 40k was Inquisitor Toth in Dawn of War and surprise surprise

Spoiler:

He was the demon all along!

I'm pretty sure he wasn't.
It's been a while so i might be wrong but i'm pretty sure he wasn't.

He wasn't. Kurgash is wrong. Go watch the cut-scenes again.

Spoiler:

The Librarian turned to Chaos during the story. However, even he wasn't a demon all along. The demon came out of the soul stone on the final battle, well after the Librarian died.

I should have clarified, I meant the book. Thumb through to the end of that atrocity and if I recall correctly it's exactly as I said.

Kurgash wrote:

kronk wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Kurgash wrote:It's funny, the only known Black man I knew of in 40k was Inquisitor Toth in Dawn of War and surprise surprise

Spoiler:

He was the demon all along!

I'm pretty sure he wasn't.
It's been a while so i might be wrong but i'm pretty sure he wasn't.

He wasn't. Kurgash is wrong. Go watch the cut-scenes again.

Spoiler:

The Librarian turned to Chaos during the story. However, even he wasn't a demon all along. The demon came out of the soul stone on the final battle, well after the Librarian died.

I should have clarified, I meant the book. Thumb through to the end of that atrocity and if I recall correctly it's exactly as I said.

Ah right then. I'll take your word for it. I burst into flames whenever i touch that book.

Perkustin wrote:This may sound odd but negro skin is harder to paint convincingly, caucasion always complements the color scheme as nothing else on the model is (pink) flesh coloured. If i distill it to complete objectivity, you don't want to paint the skin the same colour as the brown leather ammo pouches.

I agree with this.

Painting models with darker skin tones, for me at least, is hard to pull of convincingly. The dark skin also clashes with dark items on the model as well.

I have a friend who had a black army of IG. The thing is that people would jokingly call him a racist for owning an army of black men, and over time this got to him. People were just pissing him off because his army was supposed to be a normal/serious army, but people thought it was clever to recycle the same stupid joke over and over, so he eventually sold his army and re bought his IG, and painted everyone white.

As far as 'lack of black warriors' in 40k, the simple fix is to paint your models with darker skin tones, and ta-dah, you have black warriors!

I'm a new 40k-er, and when I get my Space Marine army, rest assured most of the models (well, the ones that show skin, anyway) will be painted with dark skin tones.

And to speak to buffo's concern--you can paint creatively such that "dark" items on the model can be light, to offset any perceived weirdness. I know I'm planning to have my SM be orange (maybe neon orange!) and their guns and such can certainly be painted white! Maybe they're, like, plastic or plasteel. It's the year 40,000, after all.

I'm pretty sure some of the comics (the BT Damnation Crusades in particular) have a few black marines.

As for myself, I have a few black ultramarines, such as Terminator Sergeant Apone (who never dies first, horror movie trusisms aside). I use this tutorial to do dark flesh and it works out really well - There is also a Masterclass that covers different skin tones that I had far less luck with.

I like the justifications in this thread. "I'm not racist, it's just hard to paint somebody black!"

I'll give you a free painting masterclass. How to paint a black person - prime with chaos black, done.

My buddy's Dark Angels have quite a few black marines in them. My chaos marines have a number of blue marines ... does that count?

Rube wrote:I like the justifications in this thread. "I'm not racist, it's just hard to paint somebody black!"

I'll give you a free painting masterclass. How to paint a black person - prime with chaos black, done.