Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

All species prefer their own species over others. It's a natural law. To call this racism in the way we know it with our 21st century human sensibilities is a poor choice of terms.

But within this frame of reference, all factions in the 40k universe are racists. The Tau are elitests and don't allow other species an equal franchise in their society. Other races are merely 'associates'.

The Tau also have a 'caste' system in place which most modern humans would consider wrong and lends itself to the appearance of racism within their own society.

From the lexicanum...

'The castes are based upon the racial and political divisions that separated the Tau on their homeworld of T'au during the time of the Mont'au'. Tau are not permitted to breed out of caste or to change their caste all in the name of the 'greater good' set in place by the Ethereals.

This is still racism no matter how benign it appears compared to say, the Imperium imho. It's all a matter of degrees.

Uhlan wrote:All species prefer their own species over others. It's a natural law. To call this racism in the way we know it with our 21st century human sensibilities is a poor choice of terms.

But within this frame of reference, all factions in the 40k universe are racists. The Tau are elitests and don't allow other species an equal franchise in their society. Other races are merely 'associates'.

The Tau also have a 'caste' system in place which most modern humans would consider wrong and lends itself to the appearance of racism within their own society.

From the lexicanum...

'The castes are based upon the racial and political divisions that separated the Tau on their homeworld of T'au during the time of the Mont'au'. Tau are not permitted to breed out of caste or to change their caste all in the name of the 'greater good' set in place by the Ethereals.

This is still racism no matter how benign it appears compared to say, the Imperium imho. It's all a matter of degrees.

Exactly Uhlan, thank you for speaking sense to the people on this forum. Yes, I completely agree with what you said. However, I don't know if we could really call what the races of 40k racist; I think its more along the line of 'speciest' than anything else. The Imperium is not really racist, it is certainly speciest , not even among its own population. Let me explain, the mutants of the human race in 40k are not like x-men mutants or jews. They really look like aliens, they have tentacles for hands, three or four eyes and some are creatures who have degenerated to become cannibals or to survive they have to kill humans or they become vampires etc. The human race in 40k is supposed to evolve into a psychic race and it has been said that mutants threaten that future through them mixing their genes with normal humanity and thus regressing humanity.

I don't know if I'm right. Thats what I have heard people say so I could be wrong. But if their right would it really be wrong to oppress mutants? And is their a way to handle them humanely but still keeping them from contaminating the normal human population, assuming what I heard is true?

could it be like a navy army kind of thing

Okay, I think I get it....So even tough their isnt alot of hatred between the species the species still look down a bit on one another and there are som laws that do not allow some aliens to do what the Tau can. It work like "first class" an "second class".

darkcloud92 wrote:2.)No mister heretic you ARE WRONG about the empire size. let me reiterate, i was not whining or complaining. Just b/c I have a different opinion than yours does not mean that I am whining when I say it. But it clearly states IN THE CODEX, im a tau player so I should know, that after the black crusade, read that AFTER the black crusade when most the damage was done, the Tau led by Farsight, that tau girl, and a few other leaders managed to reclaim almost everything that was lost out of the original colonies, but they also managed to conquer many more planets that were not originally there's. The empire expanded to being greater than it was before the crusade ever began.

They managed to reclaim almost all of the planets the Imperium abandoned when they pulled back the bare handful of Guardsmen they'd deployed against them to face off against a Hive Fleet. So, they somehow managed to fail to retake completely undefended worlds.

3.) You keep using the word they, "they" did not sterilize people. The video games fluff does not count for anything what so ever. But if you must count it, it was ONE commander, not the Tau, aka "they". And "they," the Tau, the actual leaders, exiled that man and punished him. So "they" wouldnt be sterilizing people some more because "they" never did it in the first place.

It's from the Deathwatch rulebooks, not Dark Crusade. Dark Crusade just had the entire human population being placed in gender segregated concentration camps, to more easily facilitate their eradication/use as slave labor.

bob the heretic wrote:Okay, I think I get it....So even tough their isnt alot of hatred between the species the species still look down a bit on one another and there are som laws that do not allow some aliens to do what the Tau can. It work like "first class" an "second class".

I don't know if looks down is how I would put it. The tau say that all jobs are valuable and needed. It's not "Oh human you are such a worthless addiction to the GG, all you can do is take out the trash." It's more like "Oh thank the GG that we finally have a human, I hear your kind is very good at taking out the trash."

nomotog wrote:

bob the heretic wrote:Okay, I think I get it....So even tough their isnt alot of hatred between the species the species still look down a bit on one another and there are som laws that do not allow some aliens to do what the Tau can. It work like "first class" an "second class".

I don't know if looks down is how I would put it. The tau say that all jobs are valuable and needed. It's not "Oh human you are such a worthless addiction to the GG, all you can do is take out the trash." It's more like "Oh thank the GG that we finally have a human, I hear your kind is very good at taking out the trash."

yeah, thats kinda how it works.


of course thats the idealistic way it works.

look up India's caste system to see how it probably works in real life.

All of the species think their culture is superior, otherwise they wouldn't use it. The tau are no exception. However there is almost no evidence of them acting on this which is what matters.

As for the castes they are split in a way that forces them to be treated equally. None of the castes could work without the support of the others.

Tau are very focused on using the right tool for the job. Humans might see carrying boxes as a bad job, but to the Tau they are doing the most appropriate job for their skills and that is the most effective way of working.

4M2A wrote:However there is almost no evidence of them acting on this which is what matters.

Mind control, abductions, secret medical experiments, mass sterilization, concentration camps, enslavement...

4M2A wrote:All of the species think their culture is superior, otherwise they wouldn't use it. The tau are no exception. However there is almost no evidence of them acting on this which is what matters.

As for the castes they are split in a way that forces them to be treated equally. None of the castes could work without the support of the others.

Tau are very focused on using the right tool for the job. Humans might see carrying boxes as a bad job, but to the Tau they are doing the most appropriate job for their skills and that is the most effective way of working.

I can see tau sciences devoting time to "prove" that the different roles assigned are the right roles. They might perform DNA tests that result in humans being being found resistant to bacterial agents normally found inside of the refuge pits there fore making humans the most ideal garbage men. "This just in, the latest numbers from the third sphere of expansion confirms that humans perform best when used in their new role as cannon fodder. Researchers found that units with human shields had 80% fewer losses then standard units. Let us all congratulate the humans their new use in the evolving field of disposable cover." Things like that.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

4M2A wrote:However there is almost no evidence of them acting on this which is what matters.

Mind control, abductions, secret medical experiments, mass sterilization, concentration camps, enslavement...

Can't find them in my Codex. Wait! They aren't in the Codex!
Maybe a list of words is not enough as evidence

Uhlan wrote:All species prefer their own species over others. It's a natural law. To call this racism in the way we know it with our 21st century human sensibilities is a poor choice of terms.

But within this frame of reference, all factions in the 40k universe are racists. The Tau are elitests and don't allow other species an equal franchise in their society. Other races are merely 'associates'.

The Tau also have a 'caste' system in place which most modern humans would consider wrong and lends itself to the appearance of racism within their own society.

From the lexicanum...

'The castes are based upon the racial and political divisions that separated the Tau on their homeworld of T'au during the time of the Mont'au'. Tau are not permitted to breed out of caste or to change their caste all in the name of the 'greater good' set in place by the Ethereals.

This is still racism no matter how benign it appears compared to say, the Imperium imho. It's all a matter of degrees.

That's not racism any more than a feudal system is racism. Racism is based on perceived biological or ethnical differences, specifically the inferiority of someone who is "different". A caste system or a feudal system has a population separated by birth where a new born inherits a specific social status according to their ancestors, regardless of their own meriting abilities.

Just because a concept has a negative tone to it and is partially related to the situation doesn't mean you can use it to describe the situation at hand. In some cases a caste system in itself is sufficient to describe a negatively charged situation where a lot of intellectual potential is lost due to the society. The untouchables in India spring to mind as an excellent example of how a caste system can create a tragic situation.

To further distinguish between racism and a caste/feudal system, racism is by large based on fear and prejudice by what is different from your own norm. Meanwhile, a caste or feudal system is usually brought in place to ensure a stagnation of power so that a sectioned off portion of society holds power and that it is inherited within the families of that section. A caste or feudal system are incompatible with a democracy, while racism is highly compatible and even a problem for democracies, because racism is based on perception rather than thought.

And then you get a situation where sentient beings are of actual different races. Now this is harder, and significantly so, but as someone put it "Fantasy is one big happy world where it is white and brown people in happy harmony beating down on the green". Or, in the words of Terry Pratchett "This reeks of shape hatred".
I wouldn't call it racism, but there is a distinct possibility that it's just plain wrong.

Kroothawk wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

4M2A wrote:However there is almost no evidence of them acting on this which is what matters.

Mind control, abductions, secret medical experiments, mass sterilization, concentration camps, enslavement...

Can't find them in my Codex. Wait! They aren't in the Codex!
Maybe a list of words is not enough as evidence

Mind control is from the codex, the rest is from Deathwatch and other fluff.

Some one brought it up so we might as well talk about it. Assuming they are mind control. has anyone given thought to how the helmets might work. Do a lot of people know about the helmets or is it a secret? Do they let anyone give commands or just the eternals, maybe they have to be reprogrammed every so often when the vespin switches bosses? Do they still act as translators? Are the vespin still under mind control or was it just a temporary project to get them to join?

Also another thing to think about, maybe translation helms and mind control helms are the same thing by accident. Maybe the vespin have some thing like a voice based hive mind where anything you tell a vespin becomes what they think and do. The helms are just translation helms, but it taps the tau into the vespin hive mind and lets them give commands.

The civil war between the Tau, then the Ethereals show up...... "huh suddenly I like everyone and everything now, what should we call this feeling? HHHMMMM, the greater good?

bob the heretic wrote:I was wondering is there any segregation or racism in the Tau empire? Perhaps the humans that joined the Tau are not allowed to eat in the same restaurant or fall in love with a Tau female? Or not just humans.

I really doubt that Humans and Tau would enter romantic relationships even if it was allowed (which I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be). They are both organisms that evolved on entirely different worlds this means entirely different genetics, methods of reproduction, standards of beauty, and societal beliefs on what is acceptable. In the Imperium humans are taught to despise all Xenos. While a concurred world may be persuaded to accept their new Tau masters, its highly unlikely that they would develop any sexual attraction to them. Vice versa Tau society is very strict, the castes don't interbreed. The castes didn't even interbreed before they formed, thats why the different are all different subspecies. Even if society allowed it the standards for what is beautiful between the two races would be vastly different. Again Humans and Tau developed on separate worlds, different aspects of their physiology would be desired. Even if, for example, female Tau had mammary glands (which I doubt they would) to a Human it would be like looking at the mammary glands or an ape at best.

If despite those previous factors a Human and Tau were able to fall in love it might be very difficult to express it physically. Again these are organisms that evolved completely independent from each other, its almost guaranteed their parts wouldn't fit together, let alone be in any way compatible. Even if the two races could be physically able capable to interbreed they would not be able to produce any offspring. Genetics have to be very close in order to produce any offspring between two species, and when it dose work the children are sterile. Donkeys and Horses are very close genetically, yet when they are forced to interbreed their offspring, a Mule, is sterile. Humans and Tau would be so vastly different genetically that fetus would not even start to develop.

TLDR: Aliens and Humans should have no logical reason to fall in love, even if the society did allow it.

This is all speculation so I am moving the thread to 40K General Discussions.

corporal_reznov wrote:Again you ignore all other sources and simply focus on this one book. I know you are going to call me a hypocrite but you're wrong, I have one source from Lexicanum.com and Rogue trader rpg as well as Redscare's quotes from Tau codex 3rd edition which you conveniently ignore.

Using an older edition of rules to trump newer ones is usually incorrect.

Because neither can interbreed, being biologically totally different.

Now I find this interesting, and please don't gang up on me for this, I'm only stating it as I'm interested in the logic behind his statement when there is a real world parallel.

We allow gays to marry, yet they cannot breed in any sense. They can adopt, which I would assume a mixed species couple could do as well. And it's highly likely they have sexual deviants just like we do if they reproduce in a similar fashion. There easily could be some female Tau who has a craving for some good human lovin' Just like there are some humans who much prefer animals to other humans.

Oh look. It's THIS thread again.

simply put o.o i like the tau, not so keen on the kroot, but thats only because of all the flesh to paint :3 yes im a lover not a hater, if i hate any race its chaos (except thousand sons but thats a different matter) :3

I dont think they live together...The reserves have Farm colonies, at least i think i read that somewhere, theyre given weapons and tech and are expected to fend for themselves in freedom

Ratbarf wrote:

Because neither can interbreed, being biologically totally different.

Now I find this interesting, and please don't gang up on me for this, I'm only stating it as I'm interested in the logic behind his statement when there is a real world parallel.

We allow gays to marry, yet they cannot breed in any sense. They can adopt, which I would assume a mixed species couple could do as well. And it's highly likely they have sexual deviants just like we do if they reproduce in a similar fashion. There easily could be some female Tau who has a craving for some good human lovin' Just like there are some humans who much prefer animals to other humans.

Homosexuals can breed, albeit with artificial insemination or serigraph parents.

Even if there were some highly bizarre individuals that were interested in other species, and yes it would be like someone who has a bestiality fetish. However with animals at least they have simlilar bits to humans. With Xenos there would be considerable difficulty getting the bits to fit.

Beside the point Tau society would likely not allow races to attempt to interbreed, they don't let the castes interbreed.

You are kinda saying like its impossible. I mean Tau and Humes are vry smart living beings that are not that differant except physical appereance. They still hav the same emotions, right?

Cottonjaw wrote:Oh look. It's THIS thread again.

What thread?

Oh! This thread.

Yeah, it seems the Tau hate machine has been putting in a little overtime here recently.

Meh. Kids will be kids I guess.

bob the heretic wrote:You are kinda saying like its impossible. I mean Tau and Humes are vry smart living beings that are not that differant except physical appereance. They still hav the same emotions, right?

Yes I am. It is almost entirely physically and socially impossible for a Tau and Human to have a relationship together.

not to mention the Tau are waaaaay different physically from humans.

Eldar at least have almost identical external features.


Tau have cloven hooves and the actual location of their "naughty bits" is actually up for debate by Imperial Xenoligists. the 2 prime locations are the Facial Slit and the Anus.

Kroot have to sit in the back of the Devilfish.

agnosto wrote:

Cottonjaw wrote:Oh look. It's THIS thread again.

What thread?

Oh! This thread.

Yeah, it seems the Tau hate machine has been putting in a little overtime here recently.

Meh. Kids will be kids I guess.

comment removed, please be polite when dealing with fellow forum members.Ta

reds8n



I made this thread to learn more about the Tau Empire and not hate on them. Is there a problem for me ask something I do not know? Or is it immidiatly hate?
Just beacuse there is some truth you do not like doesnt mean its wrong and hate towards the Tau Empire.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grey Templar wrote:not to mention the Tau are waaaaay different physically from humans.

Eldar at least have almost identical external features.


Tau have cloven hooves and the actual location of their "naughty bits" is actually up for debate by Imperial Xenoligists. the 2 prime locations are the Facial Slit and the Anus.

I l know they are physically differant but they bot have the same emotions like fear, happy, sadness, anger.

bob the heretic wrote:

agnosto wrote:

Cottonjaw wrote:Oh look. It's THIS thread again.

What thread?

Oh! This thread.

Yeah, it seems the Tau hate machine has been putting in a little overtime here recently.

Meh. Kids will be kids I guess.

I made this thread to learn more about the Tau Empire and not hate on them. Is there a problem for me ask something I do not know? Or is it immidiatly hate?
Just beacuse there is some truth you do not like doesnt mean its wrong and hate towards the Tau Empire.

You know there is a Searhbar...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grey Templar wrote:not to mention the Tau are waaaaay different physically from humans.

Eldar at least have almost identical external features.


Tau have cloven hooves and the actual location of their "naughty bits" is actually up for debate by Imperial Xenoligists. the 2 prime locations are the Facial Slit and the Anus.

I l know they are physically differant but they bot have the same emotions like fear, happy, sadness, anger.

Almost every race in the galaxy have emotions, so your argument is invalid...