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gorgon wrote: Spinning wild theories has become a real thing with fans. Remember that "Joker is a former Robin" thing that people were spinning into pages and pages of content? I think people are doing this now with any genre show.
Now, I think there are clearly a few mysteries going on in WW...the maze, the Orion/transmitter thread, etc. But yes, people should probably try not to lose sight of the show itself while trying to unravel - or invent - secrets.
I agree with this and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
gorgon wrote: Spinning wild theories has become a real thing with fans. Remember that "Joker is a former Robin" thing that people were spinning into pages and pages of content? I think people are doing this now with any genre show.
Now, I think there are clearly a few mysteries going on in WW...the maze, the Orion/transmitter thread, etc. But yes, people should probably try not to lose sight of the show itself while trying to unravel - or invent - secrets.
Yes, but there is also a push from the show's marketing team to keep these theories spinning, like when the official Westworld Twitter account said that logos should be scrutinized.
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
gorgon wrote: Spinning wild theories has become a real thing with fans. Remember that "Joker is a former Robin" thing that people were spinning into pages and pages of content? I think people are doing this now with any genre show.
Now, I think there are clearly a few mysteries going on in WW...the maze, the Orion/transmitter thread, etc. But yes, people should probably try not to lose sight of the show itself while trying to unravel - or invent - secrets.
1. Why? Or more precise: Where is the problem with theorizing? (I am actually very happy that there are shows out there that let you do it, instead of having no mystery at all.)
Do you have a problem to discern fan theories and what is acutally going on in the series? Might that be actually a problem of you not being able to follow the show? Or is this a "Can you please leave a bit of mystery"/"I don't want to flooded with theories which diminish my personal enjoyment of the show."?
Because I hope you know that your media consumption is largely controlled by yourself.
Wanna keep the mystery? Do not go to forum topics that discuss your show!
2. This is no new phenomenon. Star Wars - A new hope sparked huge discussions on how everything was connected, and how it would go on. Internet discussions have just accelerated and spread the scope of such discussions. In the 70s and 80s these discussions were largely distributed via fanzines and mail correspondence, i.e. only the nerds had a grasp of super-local discussions. Now, every media outlet and her friend is looking to get a piece of that consumer attention and international fora let you discuss almost anything with almost anyone.
gorgon wrote: Spinning wild theories has become a real thing with fans. Remember that "Joker is a former Robin" thing that people were spinning into pages and pages of content? I think people are doing this now with any genre show.
Now, I think there are clearly a few mysteries going on in WW...the maze, the Orion/transmitter thread, etc. But yes, people should probably try not to lose sight of the show itself while trying to unravel - or invent - secrets.
1. Why? Or more precise: Where is the problem with theorizing? (I am actually very happy that there are shows out there that let you do it, instead of having no mystery at all.)
Do you have a problem to discern fan theories and what is acutally going on in the series? Might that be actually a problem of you not being able to follow the show? Or is this a "Can you please leave a bit of mystery"/"I don't want to flooded with theories which diminish my personal enjoyment of the show."?
Because I hope you know that your media consumption is largely controlled by yourself.
Wanna keep the mystery? Do not go to forum topics that discuss your show!
2. This is no new phenomenon. Star Wars - A new hope sparked huge discussions on how everything was connected, and how it would go on. Internet discussions have just accelerated and spread the scope of such discussions. In the 70s and 80s these discussions were largely distributed via fanzines and mail correspondence, i.e. only the nerds had a grasp of super-local discussions. Now, every media outlet and her friend is looking to get a piece of that consumer attention and international fora let you discuss almost anything with almost anyone.
Again: your media consumption is up to you.
This isn't a very interesting conversation, so I'm not going to waste too many words on it. I'll just say this -- I think you're 100% free to enjoy media on whatever terms you choose. My enjoyment wasn't an issue here, as an actual reading of my post will reveal, although I recognize that may not be your strong point as a 'theorist'. But I question the sense of some people -- and in some cases, the richness of their lives -- when they've spent countless hours 'theorizing' over details and yet can't articulate the basic themes involved in a given work. Again, it's your choice -- but IMO it's a very, very silly one and in some cases kind of a sad one. Is that clear enough for you?
@Ahtman -- The operating title of my newsletter is "Just Watch the @!$%ing Show".
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/06 14:43:16
@gorgon: I am sorry but if you wanted to convey something else than "I am a judgemental pr..." you did not do a good job, I am afraid.
Someone wasting so much of his life time painting plastic figurines and writing posts on basically a toy forum, is not in the best seat to belittle others of their nerdy interests. (And seriously, starting a response with "This isn't a very interesting conversation, so I'm not going to waste too many words on it" (in a sub-discussion that you basically started) makes you look like a teenage fool.)
I am not saying that I agree with all theories or that I am a huge fan of over-theorizing. Just that I can understand the pleasures of letting your imagination wander and make up theories on things that have not been fully explained yet, from a general point of view.
Again, if you find weird (or even half-assed, stupid or contradicting) theories about series with mysteries "distracting from the narrative" then YOU have a problem, not people who can follow same show and spin out theories and/or read those theories and still enjoy the show for what it is - or even more than you do.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/06 19:01:42
It seems like you are conflating obsession over minutiae and general discussion. It is one thing to talk about something it is another to end up like The Question where everything means something except what it is or really means. Do you know what an Aglet is?
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
There was a nice Easter egg to Westworld in tonight's episode. After poking around on the internet, I'm pleased to see that I wasn't the only one to catch it!
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
My favorite part of last night's episode was seeing the miniatures and woodland scenics trees on Anthony Hopkins' desk. But everything else was cool overall.
About Lawrence being the outlaw leader guy... I took that as there just being 2 of him. Like, the park only has so many different robots, and there's probably more duplicates mixed in as extras here and there, maybe with different hairdos and beards and personalities to disguise em more.
ScootyPuffJunior wrote: There was a nice Easter egg to Westworld in tonight's episode. After poking around on the internet, I'm pleased to see that I wasn't the only one to catch it!
Do you mean:
Spoiler:
Yul Brynner standing in the background when Bernard goes to fire up some old technology to help him figure some stuff out? Pretty awesome!
Ahtman wrote: We've never seen Arnold so maybe Bernard is a simulacrum of Arnold that Ford made to keep his 'friend' around.
Did I just blow your mind? Is your mind blown?
Are we not meant to infer that he is Arnold based on the room they found? It's the same one "Bernard" was having his little interviews with Dolores in, with the Host-printer instead of their chairs, isn't it? Yet Bernard said he didn't recognise it. Sure that could be Ford's programming, but if so what's his game? His wee chat with Dolores the other week as well as the sentiments expressed in this one would seem to suggest he wouldn't like the idea of the Hosts attaining true sentience, yet the talks between Dolores and "Bernard" seemed to be him discovering that tendency in her; were he the Bernard that is under Ford's control, surely he would have told Ford about Dolores and Ford would've have just "retired" her. So that suggests either those scenes were in fact Arnold and Bernard is and always has been a duplicate of him, or Ford is playing some ridiculously convoluted long game that the show's writers don't want us to figure out yet.
Also - calling it now, the "Host" that was being printed is a duplicate of Theresa, and Ford has been murdering those the board sent to "test him" and replacing them all along.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/14 19:10:56
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
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"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
Rome also had five seasons mapped out but didn't make it that far. Planning on a TV show running that long is one of the things that makes me worry that we will never really get a satisfying payoff. Still the performances are strong enough to warrant a watch. I can also hope that they are able to get it done.
I too think a two season arc would have been fine.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/15 05:54:35
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Considering this is on HBO and pretty much everyone's been drawing comparisons with Game of Thrones, I doubt they'll be dropping it before the full run - I expect the reason they've planned out five seasons is HBO told them they'll get five providing it does well, and it seems to be.
Also - and I'm kickin myself for not noticing - someone in that YT video comments pointed out that Bernard Lowe is actually an anagram of Arnold Weber. That might be a misdirect, but the way they appear to have set up clues about Bernard and properly paid them off gives me hope this show will do mysteries properly(ie, they provide clues that lead to the right answers if people can follow them, and which make even the odd bits seem logical with hindsight) rather than the infuriating "mystery box" style so beloved by Abrams(ie, hurling dozens of mutually contradictory "clues" at the viewer and then pulling a revelation out of your arse in the final episode that wasn't even remotely foreshadowed, and leaving all the plot threads created by your earlier lies unresolved).
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
Ahtman wrote: We've never seen Arnold so maybe Bernard is a simulacrum of Arnold that Ford made to keep his 'friend' around.
Did I just blow your mind? Is your mind blown?
Oh. Em. Gee.
Yodhrin wrote: That might be a misdirect, but the way they appear to have set up clues about Bernard and properly paid them off gives me hope this show will do mysteries properly(ie, they provide clues that lead to the right answers if people can follow them, and which make even the odd bits seem logical with hindsight) rather than the infuriating "mystery box" style so beloved by Abrams(ie, hurling dozens of mutually contradictory "clues" at the viewer and then pulling a revelation out of your arse in the final episode that wasn't even remotely foreshadowed, and leaving all the plot threads created by your earlier lies unresolved).
Yeah, I think this show has done a really nice job of setting up a coherent mystery...one that isn't blatantly obvious, but also one that's highly solvable based on the info they provide. It has just the right amount of bread crumbs to keep people engaged and moving through the narrative, rather than leaving them to spin their wheels (leading to the silly kind of theories I ranted about earlier).
At this point we can't know the full meaning of the maze. However, this episode's revelations support the idea that there are two timelines, and that in the earlier timeline Dolores had an 'awakening', as William and presumably Arnold discovered. The Man in Black is indeed probably William, obsessed with/unable to let go of whatever went down in the past. The picture is being painted in, step by step.
A friend and I were talking about next season just yesterday. Wasn't there talk about them exploring other parks in future seasons?
So they could, for instance, do it as a linked anthology of sorts. Next season could deal with some of the same themes, but explore what's going on over in Futureworld. They could even use the same actors for the hosts. Cylons, basically.
At this point we can't know the full meaning of the maze. However, this episode's revelations support the idea that there are two timelines, and that in the earlier timeline Dolores had an 'awakening', as William and presumably Arnold discovered. The Man in Black is indeed probably William, obsessed with/unable to let go of whatever went down in the past. The picture is being painted in, step by step.
I hope not as it would seem to make Delores current story pointless as she merely reverts to victim status?
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
At this point we can't know the full meaning of the maze. However, this episode's revelations support the idea that there are two timelines, and that in the earlier timeline Dolores had an 'awakening', as William and presumably Arnold discovered. The Man in Black is indeed probably William, obsessed with/unable to let go of whatever went down in the past. The picture is being painted in, step by step.
I hope not as it would seem to make Delores current story pointless as she merely reverts to victim status?
Well, that could be completely wrong, of course.
If two timelines are on track though, it'd mean that we haven't seen a heckuva lot of 'current' Dolores. I'd have to go back and look at the pilot, but she said "these violent delights have violent ends" to Maeve, right? That would mean that's current Dolores...and that maybe she's up to something?
Interesting to note that line is from Romeo and Juliet. I don't think that's truly meaningful, but if you wanted to stretch it a little you could say there could be an R&J parallel with William and Dolores.
Current Dolores dug the gun out of the dirt and is retracing the path of her previous adventures towards the Maze. Which, just happens to be where Teddy, the love of her "current" life, is heading with the Man in Black, who may happen to have been her frist true love. She's becoming self aware now, and likely capable of over riding the safety protocols, to use her gun.
I have a feeling that eventually she'll emerge as the white hat host that eventually faces off against Maeve's Black Hat incarnation.
I know it was a fan-fave theory, and I should have expected it (and it was like a light going on over my head when he didn't see the door), but I was blown away by the twist with Bernard.
Can't wait to see what the last few episodes of this season have in store. Given that, while they planned and filmed season one, there was no guarantee that there'd be a season two, I wonder what sort of an ending we'll get. Will it feel "done", or will enough be left open that they can continue the storylines? Or will they pick up new storylines for Season two?
