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 Ouze wrote:
I'm not sure if this already got discussed or not because I'm only sort of following this thread, but in the original Westworld movie, the Western setting was only a part of the overall park: it also had a medieval setting and I think an ancient roman one (I saw it awhile ago so I might be misremembering).

IIRC the sequel was Future World.

Gotta jump onboard the bandwagon and say that the security teams' complete incompetence was the only thing marring an otherwise stellar finale. There simply isn't any logical way to even try to explain it away (and I've tried in my head to come up with some wild theories to explain it).

What's incredibly baffling about it is that they had all the tools in the story to make the whole thing completely believable if they had written and shot it differently. Maeve's ability to completely tweak their attributes meant that there's no reason they couldn't and shouldn't have been totally superior. They should have had near super-human reflexes, aim, senses and an almost complete aversion to any pain inflicted upon them. Yet none of those things were highlighted at all in the fight scenes.

At the very least they should have taken tons of bullets to the body and fight through it (since they don't feel the pain). They also could have shot it so that their movements seemed faster than normal humans. They also could have done some combat tricks like looking around a corner to briefly see the security teams and then using their perfect memory and superior power to compute to then jump out from around the corner and kill all the humans before they had a chance to react.

But instead they just had all the security teams wander around like imbeciles so that they could be easily ambushed from behind, or when they did get the drop on the hosts, they simply would not fire (or if they did, fire like stormtroopers).

However, even with that aggravation, it did little to dampen how much overall I loved the finale and the entire season in general.

While so many of the shows 'secrets' were figured out by the internet so early on, the show was so well crafted that it was clear that those secrets were purposely not that well hidden and it was seeing how the characters reacted to those secrets being revealed that was the real joy. In particular, the one secret that I didn't see guessed (that Ford was really pro-host) ended up being something totally foreshadowed by so much of what he said throughout the season. What I thought was him gloating to the hosts about how not to trust humans and all the flaws with human behaviors turned out not to be gloating at all, but his true feelings of dismay towards humanity...it was all there to see for so long, but at the same time hidden. Great stuff!

I did really, really enjoy the show and I can't wait until next season.

 Ouze wrote:
I did really, really enjoy the show and I can't wait until next season.

Well put on your big boy pants and settle in as season 2 won't be ready until 2018 apparently.

Westworld just wrapped up its thrilling first season, but there’s some bad news for anyone excited to get back into the park for more cowboy adventures, cameos from Grand Theft Auto V’s Steven Ogg, and unprecedented levels of nudity: It’s going to be a long time before the show’s second season hits HBO. Speaking with Variety, Westworld creators Jon Nolan and Lisa Joy said that new episodes won’t premiere until 2018, explaining that the “complexity of trying to write and produce the show at the same time” combined with the fact that both of them also work in the movie industry means that they won’t have the time to get it done any sooner than that.

Elsewhere in the chat, Nolan refuses to admit that the “SW” logo seen in the finale stands for “Samurai World” (even though it obviously does), and he compares the hosts’ nonlinear memories to Christopher Nolan’s Memento. Sadly, he and Joy do not give any tips for passing the time until Westworld comes back—which might not even happen until after Game Of Thrones has finished, which is just crazy.

Yea, Maeve even set their pain tolerance to way high, so they could've easily taken a few bullets (I don't believe they were hit once, were they?). I get that initially maybe they didn't want to hit Felix, like he was a "hostage" or something, but they could've played that up a bit... Like having the security force yell something about watching out for the human...

But all in all, it felt like the person in charge of the Maeve storyline was not careful or even terribly thoughtful in how that story arc went.


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 Ahtman wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
I did really, really enjoy the show and I can't wait until next season.

Well put on your big boy pants and settle in as season 2 won't be ready until 2018 apparently.

Westworld just wrapped up its thrilling first season, but there’s some bad news for anyone excited to get back into the park for more cowboy adventures, cameos from Grand Theft Auto V’s Steven Ogg, and unprecedented levels of nudity: It’s going to be a long time before the show’s second season hits HBO. Speaking with Variety, Westworld creators Jon Nolan and Lisa Joy said that new episodes won’t premiere until 2018, explaining that the “complexity of trying to write and produce the show at the same time” combined with the fact that both of them also work in the movie industry means that they won’t have the time to get it done any sooner than that.

Elsewhere in the chat, Nolan refuses to admit that the “SW” logo seen in the finale stands for “Samurai World” (even though it obviously does), and he compares the hosts’ nonlinear memories to Christopher Nolan’s Memento. Sadly, he and Joy do not give any tips for passing the time until Westworld comes back—which might not even happen until after Game Of Thrones has finished, which is just crazy.

DANG NAMMIT!

I DON'T EVEN OWN BIG BOY PANTS!!!

For me, it was weird with the guard, first that the robots could hit with such accuracy and no recoil.
And, when it is showed that hosts can take alot of punishment, why not shoot them?Especially when was was trapped.
What I like now though is that we dont know what is and isnt a narrative.

Maybe the guards were robots and programmed to be dumb?

Amateur security makes more sense than it looked. People can be that incompetent. Also I dont beleive all the security are that incompetent, the control office staff looked like they had their heads on properly, hence why they got locked in a room. The ones with the misfortune to be facing off with the escaping androids, but they are corporate security not commandos. Delos probably got a bunch of people who failed selection to join the army, gave them a uniform and a nifty gun and a two day course on gun safety. Then Delos said. "We have fifty armed guards in case things go wrong, reduce our insurance premiums please."

Put it this way, the hosts cant harm people, guns are only necessary because politicians insisted they had them because the hosts were armed. The teams sent in didn't even have time to panic and rout, they likely only knew where the escaped androids were, not that they were armed or had wiped out prior teams. In the post credit sequence it made sense t repeatedly tell the host to deactivate because in the panicky human programming this is what a frightened security guard well out of his depth and in deep shock is thinking.

The security teams were obviously civilian, they had no military air about them at all, few actually got to shoot as they were being slowed by combat paralysis. Nobody who envisioned this type of threat were about, the one or two staff who looked like they could handle themselves or lead others were locked in with no comms. No incident of its kind had occurred in decades and everyone was complacent and woefully undertrained. The only real threats to the park came from guests, and security would likely just alert local police authorities of any real incident.

If this explanation is not good enough for you, perhaps the androids went full Matrix on the guards, but it proved too expensive to film. The combat scenes from the Matrix trilogy were very expensive after all, and this is a TV episode, not a major movie.

 Orlanth wrote:
Amateur security makes more sense than it looked. People can be that incompetent. Also I dont beleive all the security are that incompetent, the control office staff looked like they had their heads on properly, hence why they got locked in a room. The ones with the misfortune to be facing off with the escaping androids, but they are corporate security not commandos. Delos probably got a bunch of people who failed selection to join the army, gave them a uniform and a nifty gun and a two day course on gun safety. Then Delos said. "We have fifty armed guards in case things go wrong, reduce our insurance premiums please."

This. They were scared security guards who never dealt with anything like that before, and NEVER thought they'd have to deal with machines becoming sentient and homicidal.

Are we to assume the head of security died to the Indians? They never actually showed his death did they or had anyone comment on him being missing?

Also we never found out who Ford was making in his basement or if it was anyone of significance other than the implication that he had been making his own hosts.

 AduroT wrote:
Are we to assume the head of security died to the Indians? They never actually showed his death did they or had anyone comment on him being missing?

Also we never found out who Ford was making in his basement or if it was anyone of significance other than the implication that he had been making his own hosts.

It also wasn't 100% confirmed what happened to Elsie. Bernard probably killed her. But no one found the body, right? Methinks the two are connected, especially since those two characters were connected during the season. Could Elsie be behind the Ghost Nation?

And who monkeyed with Maeve's programming? It was mostly likely Ford as part of his plan to 'free' the hosts, but it's not 100% confirmed either.

There is teaser on the delis site that shows she might be alive, Elsie that is. You have to translate some code


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 AduroT wrote:
Are we to assume the head of security died to the Indians? They never actually showed his death did they or had anyone comment on him being missing?

Also we never found out who Ford was making in his basement or if it was anyone of significance other than the implication that he had been making his own hosts.

It could be a Ford host. So either Ford put his host up to die, or has his consciousness uploaded. Remember his last line? About becoming music.

Okay you guys have helped to convince me that inept security is a feasible idea, so thanks for that!

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
There is teaser on the delis site that shows she might be alive, Elsie that is. You have to translate some code

It could be a Ford host. So either Ford put his host up to die, or has his consciousness uploaded. Remember his last line? About becoming music.

There are definitely plenty of mysteries left over to explore for season 2. The showrunners have said that Ford definitely died in the finale, so if he is going to come back in season 2, It seems likely that it would be as a host. And like you mentioned, his line about 'becoming music' only makes sense if he made a host of himself to live on (not made a host of himself to die in his place). Although it could also just mean that he expects that his work (the hosts) living on is akin to a musicians music living on after their death...so I don't think Ford coming back as a host is a forgone conclusion in the least.

But exactly what happened to Elsie and Stubbs the security guy definitely still needs to be resolved, as does whether or not Delores's dad ever made it out of the park with all the host code in his head. Plus, we have to find out who exactly died at the hands of the host massacre at the gala. It seems a sure thing that the MiB/William is going to survive the massacre because his dream of the hosts being equal players is finally a reality (and I'm sure there will be some fun to be had out of that).

Yep, can't wait for 2018!

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
It could be a Ford host. So either Ford put his host up to die, or has his consciousness uploaded. Remember his last line? About becoming music.

He most likely didn't let a host version of himself that the bullet from Delores because that would severely undercut his final turn to Arnold's side (the park is for the hosts). If it was indeed a robot version of himself, it's more likely built so he could upload his consciousness and live on as host.

If, of course, it is a host version of Ford. I think there's an equally decent chance that it was not.

 gorgon wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
Are we to assume the head of security died to the Indians? They never actually showed his death did they or had anyone comment on him being missing?

Also we never found out who Ford was making in his basement or if it was anyone of significance other than the implication that he had been making his own hosts.

It also wasn't 100% confirmed what happened to Elsie. Bernard probably killed her. But no one found the body, right? Methinks the two are connected, especially since those two characters were connected during the season. Could Elsie be behind the Ghost Nation?

And who monkeyed with Maeve's programming? It was mostly likely Ford as part of his plan to 'free' the hosts, but it's not 100% confirmed either.

The head of security was/is Ashley Stubbs. He looked competent in everything he did, he was alerted through Bernards supposed disinterest in Theresa's death and kept a firm tab on security from the hub. It makes sense that even though the security staff is amateur and untrained that Delos employ a token military officer with some degree of competence to lead them. Maeve, being upgraded smart isolated him before making her escape bid. It was the first overt act she did in the escape after activating some androids to ambush, so evidently it was an early plan. The ops room was sealed early too isolating the remaining competents.




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 yakface wrote:

Okay you guys have helped to convince me that inept security is a feasible idea, so thanks for that!

You're welcome.

This should help: evidently some Delos security staff were competent, and Maeve (and whoever from the inside was behind her) neutralised them early. In a way it was a betrayal, so Ashley's competence was bypassed, doubt Maeve would have left a dangerous man like him to chance, but had a poorer assessment of the rest of security, as we saw.

 yakface wrote:

The showrunners have said that Ford definitely died in the finale, so if he is going to come back in season 2, It seems likely that it would be as a host.

Anthony Hopkins is a veteran veteran actor, it pays not to tax him too much. Ed Harris has somewhat better health and can stick around for several seasons.
Ford is likely to return only for flashback scenes, and Hopkins will be a guest character. I saw this coming, and didnt expect the actor to return in a major role,this prediction was solely due to Hopkins being too old for a heavy schedule, and because the gravitas he brought had to come to an end for the other characters to grow. I had no firm idea how this was going to be achieved though.

 yakface wrote:

But exactly what happened to Elsie and Stubbs the security guy definitely still needs to be resolved, as does whether or not Delores's dad ever made it out of the park with all the host code in his head.

Elsie should be dead, it would require some fancy plotwork to bring her back. I have suspected that the clone being manufactured in the secret lab where (and when) Theresa was killed was a replication of Elsie. Ford said she was on holiday, i suspect he wanted to maintain the charade as his exit was a delayed reaction to events which would have been put off is the board had not ousted him.
Therefore I think the actress if not the exact character will return. Bernard and Elsie may well be modded to help pass off as human, no tracking device, no cortex bomb.

 yakface wrote:

Plus, we have to find out who exactly died at the hands of the host massacre at the gala. It seems a sure thing that the MiB/William is going to survive the massacre because his dream of the hosts being equal players is finally a reality (and I'm sure there will be some fun to be had out of that).

Plotwriter guy survived, he wasn't there. The MIB was hit exactly as much as the androids wanted him hit. After shooting him and not killing him the shooter didn't aim again. I think Delores has put him on a no kill list, for the sake of her memory of Billy. I think she wants to redeem him, and I think eventually she will.

Not since Schwarzenegger has a naked robotic killing machine been as scary as Armistice.

I have never really invested any time in a big ticket HBO drama but I loved Westworld, just a shame that it will take so long for it to come back.

Yeah I think Old William will be fine. I also think Hopkins won't be around much in future seasons, just flashbacks here and there. I had wondered if maybe he was a host all along though.. maybe real ford doesn't want droids to have consciousness but host ford does and is the one that set them free, while real ford is incapacitated somewhere?

I also doubt Elsie and Ashley will be back. As noted, it would take some fancy plotlines (that would likely be very unsatisfying) to bring 'em back - it makes more sense for them to have been killed, even if they are all coy about showing it.

Man. 2018. I think they ended Season one about as well as they could have. Quite cleverly too, if for some reason they didn't get picked up, it was good closure for a one-season, full story arc.

I can't wait to see where this goes.

My thing is that, up until Armistice was captured, it could make sense they where failing. But If I had a robot captured in a wall, I would not be yelling at it to cease motor functions, I have my own off button, made off bullets.

Ashley may or may not be dead, but if they wanted to dispose of the character upon his meeting the Ghost Nation, they would have shot a 2-second sequence of an arrow entering his heart and him keeling over.

The fact that we don't see his fate means there's more story there, whatever form that may take and whatever his fate is.

There's a good chance that Elsie is dead. However, the director also could have shot Bernard's memories to make her death clear (a neck snap, for instance). The director didn't.

Also, we'd be left to believe that Bernard and Ford treated Elsie differently than Theresa, whose death was made to look like an accident. Ford would be motivated to cover up Elsie's murder like they did with Theresa, rather than have Bernard hide the body and risk her absence drawing attention to something going on in the park.

The thing is, both Elsie and Stubbs had to be kept quiet for Ford to be able to pull off his grand reveal of the new narrative. While he certainly seemed to have no issue killing off Theresa (and implied that he's done it before for other stooges of the board sent to curtail him), I think that's a whole world different than killing innocent employees who were just doing their job.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Elsie and Stubbs were only missing a few days in 'real time' before the finale's massacre occurred. So I think we'll find in season 2 that those two characters were put into captivity somewhere until Ford's narrative could be enacted. But then again, Ford obviously has complete disdain for humans (I'm sure some of those people that will be massacred at the gala are completely innocent as well), so maybe not!

Elsie - we saw her being killed, didnt confirm the death. So if host-Elsie arrives there will be a question mark over her.

Stubbs - He had a gun and knew how to use it, he likely had good close combat skills. I think he could well be out there. It could be host-Elsie's intro to rescue him.

Maeve - Starting to go beyond her programming, or programmed to have an ambiguous escape (so she doesnt need to actually escape to achieve programmed goals)?

MIB - How does he take so many rounds in the chest and get up again? Is he cybernetically augmented?

My answer to the bad security question is: Hosts, her "successful" escape is part of her story line.

She needed to get to the train to get to the end of her "programing" to make the choice of either continue or return.

 Orlanth wrote:
Elsie - we saw her being killed, didnt confirm the death. So if host-Elsie arrives there will be a question mark over her.

Stubbs - He had a gun and knew how to use it, he likely had good close combat skills. I think he could well be out there. It could be host-Elsie's intro to rescue him.

Maeve - Starting to go beyond her programming, or programmed to have an ambiguous escape (so she doesnt need to actually escape to achieve programmed goals)?

MIB - How does he take so many rounds in the chest and get up again? Is he cybernetically augmented?

We never saw Elsie die. We saw her grabbed around the neck by who we found out to be Bernard, but we never saw her actually killed.

As for the MiB taking rounds to the chest, I presume you're talking about in the finale when Teddy rides up and shoots him? If so, Teddy is just shooting him the same way Teddy shot him in the first episode...with rounds designed to not be able to hurt guests. I guess the fact that Delores had just finished kicking the crap out of him put him in a weakened state where the dummy rounds could knock him on his ass.

 yakface wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

MIB - How does he take so many rounds in the chest and get up again? Is he cybernetically augmented?

We never saw Elsie die. We saw her grabbed around the neck by who we found out to be Bernard, but we never saw her actually killed.

As for the MiB taking rounds to the chest, I presume you're talking about in the finale when Teddy rides up and shoots him? If so, Teddy is just shooting him the same way Teddy shot him in the first episode...with rounds designed to not be able to hurt guests. I guess the fact that Delores had just finished kicking the crap out of him put him in a weakened state where the dummy rounds could knock him on his ass.

Yeah, to paraphrase from memory when young William talks to Logan after getting shot for the first time (which knocks the wind out of him, but I don't remember if it actually knocks him down):

William: "I thought you said they couldn't hurt us?"
Logan: "No, I said they couldn't kill us."

Combined with the beating it is no surprise that he was down for the count for a while. He had a rough couple days there.

Ok, forgot about that.

http://themuse.jezebel.com/westworlds-ominous-piano-covers-have-finally-been-relea-1789823997?utm_campaign=socialflow_jezebel_facebook&utm_source=jezebel_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

What could be more fitting in this bleak December month than player-piano covers of popular alt-rock songs that connect the untamed Wild West to our future as automatons on a quest to gain consciousness? Westworld’s soundtrack is finally getting a proper release, and I always wondered what the hell “Black Hole Son” was going on about. It’s God, baby!

The full soundtrack includes 34 songs, which is especially helpful if you’ve been trying to sleuth why that background melody sounded so familiar but didn’t quite scan—for me it was Nine Inch Nails’s “Something I Can Never Have” and knowing that is like scratching an itch. Additionally, there is an epic Morricone-style version of “Paint It Black” by the Rolling Stones, complete with racing horse hooves, and the theme song scored by Ramin Djawadi, whose style you may recognize from the Game of Thrones theme, too. Djawadi is outchea. Sample a few songs below and grab the full soundtrack here.