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Sunno wrote:
If you think GW's prices are high, you should look at PP's.

Thankfully the 2nd hand market is a buyers market. Even for NIB.

quoted for truth and lots of PP output is terribad, the last box I bought (plastic reeves/wolves) was only about 60% usuable and bar the odd new Caster I've given up buying anything from them

FW raised all their prices, some as high as 160%, overnight for everyone who doesn't live in the UK. If I buy something from FW I still have to pay shipping, I still have to pay my sales tax, and it's still coming from the same location in England it always came from, yet it now costs more because...

...

...

...

... anyone?

Sunno wrote:
If you think GW's prices are high, you should look at PP's.

Last time I checked Warmahordes didn't require the model count that AoS/40k does, making that a poor comparison.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
FW raised all their prices, some as high as 160%, overnight for everyone who doesn't live in the UK. If I buy something from FW I still have to pay shipping, I still have to pay my sales tax, and it's still coming from the same location in England it always came from, yet it now costs more because...

...

...

...

... anyone?

Sunno wrote:
If you think GW's prices are high, you should look at PP's.

Last time I checked Warmahordes didn't require the model count that AoS/40k does, making that a poor comparison.

It is a poor comparison yet the same type of horsegak that always gets trotted out in price comparisons, or worse people trying to say individual models cost the same so GW isn't that expensive.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Sunno wrote:
If you think GW's prices are high, you should look at PP's.

Last time I checked Warmahordes didn't require the model count that AoS/40k does, making that a poor comparison.

Yeah, since GW stopped Fantasy Battles and made start collecting boxes I have not had a problem with their prices.

Even though I miss Fantasy, the getting started price was too high.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
FW raised all their prices, some as high as 160%, overnight for everyone who doesn't live in the UK. If I buy something from FW I still have to pay shipping, I still have to pay my sales tax, and it's still coming from the same location in England it always came from, yet it now costs more because...

...

...

...

... anyone?

Variations on exchange rates over the past couple of years?
Costs here are going up, like minimum wage and fuel.
I haven't seen GW/FW's reasons, but I expect they'll list something like that.

I've always said comparing GW to other hobbies is an empty pointless comparison.
Yes it costs less than restoring antique cars or collecting the severed heads of your enemies.

But a miniature should be compared to a miniature.

So is for example a leman russ expensive?
Leman russ £31.
Tamiya 1/35th King Tiger: £30-35
Tamiya 1/48th King Tiger: £25-30
Warlord 1/56th king Tiger: £20-25

Is a squad of guardsmen expensive? (Using brood brothers as the guard box is pointless)
Brood brothers 10+2 £25 (£2.08 per model maybe 50 pieces per sprue)
Perry WWII infantry 40-45 models £20 (46p approx per model. Maybe 100 pieces per sprue)
Warlord infantry boxes 25-40 models £20-30 (77p approx per model maybe 100 pieces per sprue)

But it is moot. As GW could charge £100 per model and £500 per vehicle and the fanatical fanbase will STILL defend it as affordable

And a WWII miniature game can easily reach GW levels of figures.

Heck I could compare Napoleonics.
Perry are about the same as the WWII boxes.
And you have victrix at 50-60 models per box for £25
And warlord at 24-30 at £15-20 if I recall

ValentineGames wrote:
I've always said comparing GW to other hobbies is an empty pointless comparison.

And I've always said that you're absolutely wrong.

A fast food hamburger costs $0.99.

A fast food cheeseburger costs $1.09.

Who gives a if the cheese adds 10% value or not, both options are so cheap that I'm not even looking at the price before choosing which one I want. Same thing with miniatures. No matter what miniatures I'm buying it's still so cheap that it doesn't make any difference what I'm getting. And at the end of the day that's what decides whether or not something is expensive.

 Skinnereal wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
FW raised all their prices, some as high as 160%, overnight for everyone who doesn't live in the UK. If I buy something from FW I still have to pay shipping, I still have to pay my sales tax, and it's still coming from the same location in England it always came from, yet it now costs more because...

...

...

...

... anyone?

Variations on exchange rates over the past couple of years?
Costs here are going up, like minimum wage and fuel.
I haven't seen GW/FW's reasons, but I expect they'll list something like that.

you forget 'cos you addicts will pay it regardless so we might as well chance it'

 Peregrine wrote:

ValentineGames wrote:
I've always said comparing GW to other hobbies is an empty pointless comparison.

And I've always said that you're absolutely wrong.

A fast food hamburger costs $0.99.

A fast food cheeseburger costs $1.09.

Who gives a if the cheese adds 10% value or not, both options are so cheap that I'm not even looking at the price before choosing which one I want. Same thing with miniatures. No matter what miniatures I'm buying it's still so cheap that it doesn't make any difference what I'm getting. And at the end of the day that's what decides whether or not something is expensive.

So...what you're saying is...you want GW to give you slices of wax cheese?...
That's all I fathom from what you say.

ValentineGames wrote:
So...what you're saying is...you want GW to give you slices of wax cheese?...
That's all I fathom from what you say.

What I'm saying is that all miniatures games are so cheap (at least from the point of view of someone with a decent job) that any price variation between them is irrelevant, none of them can be considered "expensive".

If a $30 figure is expensive according to Bob, which only Bob understands his finances, the figure is expensive.

If a $30 figure is cheap according to Juanita, which only Juanita understands her finances, the figure is cheap.

Same figure, same price, different values based on an individuals objective assessment between their values ( finances ) and the figures price.

Warhammer ( wargaming ) used to be expensive for me about 10 years ago.... Today, they are cheap for me. Such is life

For all the complaints about the cost of entry, GW has made it significantly easier now to get into playing in their universe.

40K is too expensive? Play Kill Team or Necromunda.
AoS is too expensive? Play Underworlds or Warcry (when released).
Forgeworld too expensive? Play Adeptus Titanicus.

GW has made lite versions of their games for people to play who can't afford to fully play their big two games. Yes the prices for figures are high, but then the argument of cost comparison to games like WMH, KD, and similar games is valid. Most the WMH players in my area dropped WMH for Kill Team. Not only did they prefer the rules, they said it was a cheaper game to play.

I think this is quite a complicated thing. I think GW is quite expensive, but it’s not across the board.
It’s a bit random at times.
Shadow sun is $61 which for what you get is extreme.
But the fire blade is only $21
darkstrider being $28

So a big difference from similar sized minis, and I not sure the the difference accounts for much.
But it’s also with there books and other things. Getting into killteam recently, I have found it anything but cheep.
Both books where over $70 since i wanted enhanced edition, and the started box I think was over priced. I got it thinking it would have cards I could write on, since they are not for sale here. But have only used about 5 of the minis from it, needing other boxes anyway. The extra skills and such in the box was not worth the extra cost, but I needed it anyway it felt.
Compared to other games of similar size that is not in anyway cheaper.

They have a lot of costs that all add up and I think it’s a issue, necromunda with forge world prices are a joke.

When it all adds up, I feel the game just is not good enough for how much it cost.

 Peregrine wrote:

ValentineGames wrote:
So...what you're saying is...you want GW to give you slices of wax cheese?...
That's all I fathom from what you say.

What I'm saying is that all miniatures games are so cheap (at least from the point of view of someone with a decent job) that any price variation between them is irrelevant, none of them can be considered "expensive".

So cheap for you = cheap for everyone.
Got it...snob

 Turnip Jedi wrote:

Sunno wrote:
If you think GW's prices are high, you should look at PP's.

Thankfully the 2nd hand market is a buyers market. Even for NIB.

quoted for truth and lots of PP output is terribad, the last box I bought (plastic reeves/wolves) was only about 60% usuable and bar the odd new Caster I've given up buying anything from them

Their resin miniatures remain far superior to Games Workshop's. I've been playing with the new Monsterpocalypse resins, and that game is beautiful.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Skinnereal wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
FW raised all their prices, some as high as 160%, overnight for everyone who doesn't live in the UK. If I buy something from FW I still have to pay shipping, I still have to pay my sales tax, and it's still coming from the same location in England it always came from, yet it now costs more because...

...

...

...

... anyone?

Variations on exchange rates over the past couple of years?
Costs here are going up, like minimum wage and fuel.
I haven't seen GW/FW's reasons, but I expect they'll list something like that.

The prices increase faster than inflation generally. Exchange rate doesn't make a whole lot of sense with Forge World (since everyone buys in British pounds).

I suspect that GW is worried about their profits dropping due to Brexit or one of a million other factors, so they're increasing prices in hopes that it doesn't happen.

Forge World prices are always a little hard to justify, considering that they still charge quite a bit more than other companies for similar resin miniatures (sometimes twice as much for a similarly sized large minis- this amounts to a few hundred dollars difference).

The prices increase faster than inflation generally. Exchange rate doesn't make a whole lot of sense with Forge World (since everyone buys in British pounds).

Not any more, now people pay in their home currency. Guess what happened to the relative prices when they introduced that policy?

Finally got to say my piece to GW about the stupid FW regional pricing bull gak.

TBH, Ive always wondered if Forge World's regional pricing is even legal in Australia since they have no Australian overheads.

Like for example from https://www.business.gov.au/products-and-services/fair-trading/pricing-regulations

Multiple pricing

Multiple pricing is when a good is advertised with more than one displayed price. Typically, this is done in error. Under consumer law, a business must either sell the goods at the lower price, or withdraw the good from sale until the price is corrected.

Ive always wondered if regional price gouging comes under this.

 Peregrine wrote:

ValentineGames wrote:
So...what you're saying is...you want GW to give you slices of wax cheese?...
That's all I fathom from what you say.

What I'm saying is that all miniatures games are so cheap (at least from the point of view of someone with a decent job) that any price variation between them is irrelevant, none of them can be considered "expensive".

I have a decent job and no it isn't cheap. It's priced as a luxery good, which means it can be whatever they want, so I wont say its overpriced, but it certainly isn't cheap. It's almost impossible to convince friends of new people to start playing the game where Im at because of the prices. Why would they pay $400 to get a decent army when they could buy 7 AAA title video games for the same price?

Yes in theory you get better value from 40k, since you can always re-sell the models for full price to someone, but the amount of work and cost it takes up-front to get into the game is far larger than most other forms of entertainment.

Humans tend to shy away from work and expense when trying new hobbies.


The start collecting box's are priced decently, but they tend to have models that aren't all that good and do not give you the ability to get what you actually want. They should really price their entire range based off of those prices and put actual starter armies (like a functional Battalion at 1000pts) in the start collecting box's.

Aside from folks starting out the only difference cheaper prices would make would be an increase in the tonnage of our piles of shame.

I, for one, would love to have a more massive pile of shame. I'd have to sneak it past my wife like Andy Dufresne sneaking dirt past the warden, but I would find it worthwhile.

ValentineGames wrote:
I've always said comparing GW to other hobbies is an empty pointless comparison.
Yes it costs less than restoring antique cars or collecting the severed heads of your enemies.

But a miniature should be compared to a miniature.

So is for example a leman russ expensive?
Leman russ £31.
Tamiya 1/35th King Tiger: £30-35
Tamiya 1/48th King Tiger: £25-30
Warlord 1/56th king Tiger: £20-25

Is a squad of guardsmen expensive? (Using brood brothers as the guard box is pointless)
Brood brothers 10+2 £25 (£2.08 per model maybe 50 pieces per sprue)
Perry WWII infantry 40-45 models £20 (46p approx per model. Maybe 100 pieces per sprue)
Warlord infantry boxes 25-40 models £20-30 (77p approx per model maybe 100 pieces per sprue)

But it is moot. As GW could charge £100 per model and £500 per vehicle and the fanatical fanbase will STILL defend it as affordable

And a WWII miniature game can easily reach GW levels of figures.

Heck I could compare Napoleonics.
Perry are about the same as the WWII boxes.
And you have victrix at 50-60 models per box for £25
And warlord at 24-30 at £15-20 if I recall

Referring to your Tamiya vs GW tanks comment, the difference in quality is gigantic between scale models and wargame minis. As someone who owns the 1/48 Tiger, it comes with a huge number of pieces in comparison to a Leman Russ with better tooling and a die-cast chassis which results in a better model overall.

By all means, compare infantry to infantry for wargames, but comparing GW's tanks to scale model tanks doesn't work.

A more accurate scale model, yes, but "better"? Depends on what you want it for, surely. After all, GW's models are designed to be used in games and repeatedly handled. model kits are generally designed to be built and then left well alone.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
After all, GW's models are designed to be used in games and repeatedly handled.

Are they?


Really?



Are you sure?



Those might not even be the most egregious examples. But were some of the first that sprung to mind.

Assuming equal competence of construction, I'd say a scale tank (especially one with die cast pieces) is equally robust to many gaming minis, and not just GW.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:

ValentineGames wrote:
I've always said comparing GW to other hobbies is an empty pointless comparison.
Yes it costs less than restoring antique cars or collecting the severed heads of your enemies.

But a miniature should be compared to a miniature.

So is for example a leman russ expensive?
Leman russ £31.
Tamiya 1/35th King Tiger: £30-35
Tamiya 1/48th King Tiger: £25-30
Warlord 1/56th king Tiger: £20-25

Is a squad of guardsmen expensive? (Using brood brothers as the guard box is pointless)
Brood brothers 10+2 £25 (£2.08 per model maybe 50 pieces per sprue)
Perry WWII infantry 40-45 models £20 (46p approx per model. Maybe 100 pieces per sprue)
Warlord infantry boxes 25-40 models £20-30 (77p approx per model maybe 100 pieces per sprue)

But it is moot. As GW could charge £100 per model and £500 per vehicle and the fanatical fanbase will STILL defend it as affordable

And a WWII miniature game can easily reach GW levels of figures.

Heck I could compare Napoleonics.
Perry are about the same as the WWII boxes.
And you have victrix at 50-60 models per box for £25
And warlord at 24-30 at £15-20 if I recall

Referring to your Tamiya vs GW tanks comment, the difference in quality is gigantic between scale models and wargame minis. As someone who owns the 1/48 Tiger, it comes with a huge number of pieces in comparison to a Leman Russ with better tooling and a die-cast chassis which results in a better model overall.

By all means, compare infantry to infantry for wargames, but comparing GW's tanks to scale model tanks doesn't work.

1/48th is a common wargaming scale. It is a fair comparison.
Otherwise I'll just compare Rubicon.
The point us the same.

ValentineGames wrote:

1/48th is a common wargaming scale. It is a fair comparison.
Otherwise I'll just compare Rubicon.
The point us the same.

I have used a couple of 1/48 Tamiya models for wargaming before. They are much nicer sculpts than anything I would expect a wargaming model to be and blow any Citadel/Forgeworld vehicle model I have seen out of the water. They take more work to build and have parts that I would consider too fragile or otherwise fiddly for miniatures gaming though. So I can agree with that arguement somewhat, though; I knew several players that stuck with the Tamiya stuff since they felt 1:48 scale was more accurate.

I think Rubicon Models is an apt comparison. I think even Rubicon's worst models (I believe it was their first Panzer IV or Sherman in which they actually went back and re-did it) makes the Land Raider, Rhino or Leman Russ Tank look like 1980s G.I. Joe toys. After their first year, Rubicon hit a good compromise of detail/ease of building vs. the ruggedness of the model for wargaming purposes. I think what helped them was have several historical vehicle experts weigh in on their designs before production to both ensure accuracy and help pick and choose which details to include and which could be dropped.

To cut the argument off at the pass, if a tiny model manufacturer (Rubicon) in a tiny and saturated market (28mm WWII vehicles) can actually go back and rework a kit, the leader in the industry probably has the same ability. I can grin and bear the price for most infantry models in the Citadel line, but I can bring myself to spend $60 for a Chaos Predator when for just about half that I could get a WWII Panther Tank or Tiger I Tank of much nicer quality. Any Rhino based model seems like they are worth $40 tops to me. I know I have spent less on the two I have.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
After all, GW's models are designed to be used in games and repeatedly handled.

Are they?

Spoiler:

Really?

Spoiler:

Are you sure?

Spoiler:

Those might not even be the most egregious examples. But were some of the first that sprung to mind.

Assuming equal competence of construction, I'd say a scale tank (especially one with die cast pieces) is equally robust to many gaming minis, and not just GW.

Having used both Nagash and the Eidolon in regular games i can attest that they are perfectly fine for gaming. And if built properly, both are solid as a rock.

Sorta missed the point there chap.

Just going to add my £0.02 to this...

I find the comparison of prices of model kit tanks, to GW's tank models, rather spurious, because there are model kits of tanks out there, quite readily available, not garage resin one-offs, that cost about as much as GW's tanks, a Takom 1/35 King Tiger (which is not much bigger than a Land Raider) for example. And the price of newly tooled model kits in general seems to be rising significantly, manufacturers seem to have this trend at the moment of producing newly tooled big huge models, for example a 1/32 B-24 Liberator, or a 1/24 Hellcat, at a very huge price, whilst the usually more affordable smaller scales are being ignored. For seemingly no other reason than "'cos we can".

Having said that I have no doubt that GW's products are over priced, but I am also in no doubt that they are not the only one's in this side of the modelling hobby that are over priced. Kickstarters seem to be the fashion of the day, and some of them are horrendously expensive to get anything meaningful/useful out of...

I started with the GW hobby back in the 90s, I amassed over 100 Dark Angels infantry models, some bikes, a few Mk1 Rhino, a Mk2 Predator, and a Mk1 Land Raider. I also acquired the entirety of 2nd edition 40k, including all codices available at the time. All of which at the time felt like an achievement to me, however with the dawning of the internet age, and seeing what many people seem to own these days it seems rather insignificant.

I know however that I could not amass that many models or a complete edition of 40k 8th today on the same budget (even adjusted for inflation) as I had back then. I find myself today struggling to stay in the hobby in terms of buying anything new, and I wouldn't dream of starting a new army having written up many lists over the past year and gone to various places to cost them up.

I feel that I've been consistently, gradually, and increasingly, pushed out of the GW hobby since the 90s, not only because they've chased the pockets of the kids with rich parents, and the collectors who only buy to show off their manhoods, but also by those more affluent gamers who continue to support GW claiming their models are cheap to buy!

If the GW hobby wasn't largely the purview of the very comfortably well off middle class of the UK already, it has increasingly become so over the past 20 years.

Rob Lee wrote:

If the GW hobby wasn't largely the purview of the very comfortably well off middle class of the UK already, it has increasingly become so over the past 20 years.

Well it is. So is skiing and eating expensive cheese and drinking snobbish wine.. It is a luxary item. There are always risk boards.

My family wass P poor when I was a kid. E-bay was not really a thing so I could not afford to warhammer bar the odd brand new model someone was selling extremely cheaply at school(because stolen or wanting cigarette/drug money? )

Now days ebay is a thing. If you can hustle a bit, you can easily fund you miniatures from flipping and selling miniatures as well as finding absolute bargains! If you pay full GW prices then yeah its expensive!! But why would you ? Just be patient and hunt some bargains and it becomes very affordable. Might have to get some dettol for stripping. Wish I had these options when I was growing up.

E.g. People research ebay get a kits or two from GW or/online retailer website at a discount, and make £££ profit by re-selling the kits individualy/in bits. It takes some time and bit of ebaying but then you can buy some new shiny at not detriment to your finances. Yeah it will take a bit of work but for me its just another part of the hobby and I enjoy the old flip and hustle.