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Made in us
Dakka Veteran





There were a bunch of comments in the forge world thread regarding the price of the sanguinis model. It has been a while since there was a price thread, so I thought that I would start one.

On average GWs prices for minis have been increasing faster than inflation. When the individual price for a mini is combined with the number of minis needed to play 40k or AOS, their prices are outrageous.

It is constructive to contrast this with a comparison to other hobbies such as the price of a video game or that of a radio controlled car. Prices for console games have been relatively stagnate since the release of Super Mario 2 in the 1980s. Moreover, I can now play high quality games on my cellphone very inexpensively. RC cars have risen in price since the 80s. However, they have not risen nearly as much as miniatures. You can obtain a rereleased Tamiya kit for less that it would have cost if you in 1985 if you factor in inflation. Both the cars and the minis require precision cast parts, and in that sense are comparable.

The cost of producing minis should be lower than in the distant past now that minis are digitally sculpted. Need a Space Marine head, just copy and paste. Want to edit a weapon, no problem.

The solution to high miniature pricing is competition. Both video games and Rc cars have several major manufacturers. If you want lower prices, then it is imperative to have multiple major companies produce models. What we have seen is that competitors of GW are not doing well. Privateer Press, and Wyrd seem to be on a downturn. Battlefront is a shadow of what they used to be.

I put my money where my mouth is. I am a proud owner of kits from many games/manufacturers, including dakkas own maelstorm's edge.

Some people say, that you cannot find games using non gw minis. My response is if that is the case then you are not playing with the right people. If other people do not want to play the other games, or if they do not want to let you use proxy minis, or lend you their minis, then they are part of the problem.
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 spaceelf wrote:

The cost of producing minis should be lower than in the distant past now that minis are digitally sculpted. Need a Space Marine head, just copy and paste. Want to edit a weapon, no problem.


For troops etc mass units sure. For characters alas we then end up paying for the plastic tax.

Right tool for the right job and right material for the right purpose.

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/10/20/tneva82-tournament-report/ <- lotr painting blog

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5265 pts
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Made in gb
Heroic Senior Officer





Gone-to-ground in the craters of Coventry

GW's prices have not changed all that much, if you look at certain kits.
Repackaging from 10-body for a 5-body kit, the price was more than half after re-release.
New kits are priced at new prices, so that looks to be where the price rises are.

I'd play any 40k game against a fully non-GW model army, especially if done well.

As for the price to field a full game, just play at lower points levels.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/01 12:40:34


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"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw (probably)
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Made in be
Waaagh! Warbiker





Lier, Belgium

If you're a casual player and don't need every codex option and/or have a decent amount of models to switch your army lists, the cost drops alot.
I have everything i want for orks, and almost everything for nids so the only things i bought in last 3 years are paints, brushes, new codexes/rulebooks, and a Thousand sons killteam (2 boxes of models).

If you like assembling and painting, and count it as hobbytime, one box of troops will give you alot of hours amusement, and keeps on counting amusement time as the years you play continue.
With videogames of 50€, i'm usually finished in a week or 3 and only the best games are played a second time.

so "money spend-time wasted" for gw minis, the balance is good i think

8000 points fully painted
hive fleet belphegor 3500 points
1k sons killteam

Dakka is the ork word for shooting, but the ork concept of shooting is saturation fire. Just as there is no such thing as a "miss" in a target-rich environment, there is no such thing as a "dodge" in a bullet rich one

 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Agile Revenant Titan





London, UK

I'd rather spend my money on something I'll have constant use of and GW gives me that something. I think video games are a poor comparison considering a lot of AAA titles have very little in the way of lengthy campaigns and it's especially bad when they're digital downloads. As wallygator said, I'm never going to play a game more than once (unless it's Skyrim, but that's how long you have to go back to find a game that is replayable in my opinion).

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Made in gb
Princeps of the Emperor's Titan!






I wouldn’t worry about it.

They’re not obliged to match their prices to inflation. And being a luxury item, they’re similarly under no obligation to offer the best price possible.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives?Why not join us?

 
   
Made in ca
Eternally-Stimulated Slaanesh Dreadnought





Rzhev

Eh.

Many of us are reliant on GW stores to have a place to game and thus don't have any other option but to use GW minis.

It's all very well making baseless assertions and strawman arguments, but relying on them is foolhardy.

The Fall of Kronstaat IV
Война Народная | Voyna Narodnaya | The People's War - 2,898pts painted (updated 18/09/19)
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You know, if there's one thing I've learnt from being in the Army, it's never ignore a pooh-pooh. I knew a Major who got pooh-poohed; made the mistake of ignoring the pooh-pooh. He pooh-poohed it! Fatal error! 'Cause it turned out all along that the soldier who pooh-poohed him had been pooh-poohing a lot of other officers who pooh-poohed their pooh-poohs. In the end, we had to disband the regiment.
 
   
Made in gb
Wicked Warp Spider






Two words: Ebay, Patience.

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AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Surrey, BC - Canada

 Argive wrote:
Two words: Ebay, Patience.


Has worked for me.

Cheers,

CB


DC:70S++G+M++B+I++PW40k-89-+D+++++A+++/aWD088R+T(M)DM+  
   
Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut




 wallygator wrote:
If you like assembling and painting, and count it as hobbytime, one box of troops will give you alot of hours amusement, and keeps on counting amusement time as the years you play continue.
With videogames of 50€, i'm usually finished in a week or 3 and only the best games are played a second time.

That's my personal situation.
I usually buy a box, paint it, then move to the next one. I spend ~2.5h per infantry model between modeling and painting, so the €/h rate isn't bad at all when compared to most things. Even clampack plastic characters have a better €/h rate than watching movies or playing tennis (renting a court isn't cheap here).
My hobby is also a good part of my social life. Spending time at the shop with Warhammer friends is free, whereas going to a bar/restaurant with my other groups of friends involve spending money. That's another part of the value to me.

Of course the value would be better if GW stuff was cheaper, but my overall point is that for me, spending time hobbying/playing instead of doing other activities doesn't mean I have to spend more money.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

I'd disagree on the price of console games as although there was a fall from cartridge to CD based machines and then period of stagnation this has ended,

as too many of them now depend on you buying DLC, bonus boxes, map packs etc

but GW is expensive, but it's always been expensive compared to other figure makers even before Warhammer 40K was a thing

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




having worked as someone who puts commercial prices together I can tell you this, the "cost" of production is discussed only briefly, in order to ensure a given margin as a floor is maintained - otherwise the "price" is basically what you can get away with.

GQ stuff is expensive, its also mass produced, I've bought boxes of 60 models of a perfectly acceptable quality in 28mm, for much more minority interest games for £20, and they will still be making money.

hobbies are a "nice to have", companies can and will charge what they want.

you can find cheaper hobbies and more expensive ones, it doesn't matter, GW charge what people are prepared to pay, why wouldn't they?
   
Made in ca
Trustworthy Shas'vre






GW is expensive compared to most other minis on the market. GW is not expensive compared to other hobbies. Try owning a boat or a motorcycle and see what the initial outlay can be.

That's why GW continues to sell models, because building an army isn't a huge money sink for the middle class, and there are a lot of upper middle class that can consider it trivial expenditure (buy for their kids without blinking).

And like people said, scrounging secondhand stuff is way easier than it was years ago.


   
Made in gb
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel






My Super Nintendo system cost £100 with 2 games and 2 controllers when I was a child. My friends Xbox costs around £400 with no games and one controller.
   
Made in us
Lurking Gaunt




Portland, Maine

As others have mentioned, GW prices don't seem outrageous when you consider the $/per hour value you get. Now I've spent way more than I care to admit since getting into the hobby, but when I figure how much I am spending for the return on investment it's actually a pretty great value. I can easily drop $30+ in a bar in a couple of hours. And all this is before we even consider things like resale value. GW mini's hold their value quite well, especially if they have decent paint on them. Compared to say the video games you use in your example, I have an original XBox that I purchased for $300 that isn't worth a penny now, whereas if I gave up 40k tomorrow I feel fairly confident I would make back most of my money - especially because I have payed less than market value for most of my mini's.

But when I look at other miniature manufacturers it doesn't seem like GW prices are terribly far off. There are definitely some exceptions, but overall it looks like many other manufactures are using a similar pricing models. That said, when other manufactures are significantly less expensive, the quality is usually pretty far off GW quality so you end up getting what you pay for in the end.

At the end of the day though you aren't jest paying for the mini itself but a slew of other things as well that aren't reflected in the materials or even the design of a specific model. GW invests heavily in rules/game development and provides a level of ongoing customer support that many other companies do not match. Just look at all of the FAQs they pump out. All of those writers and play testers need to be payed somehow, and as a publicly traded company, the investors need to be payed out as well. All of that is reflected in the cost you pay at the counter.
   
Made in gb
Sure Space Wolves Land Raider Pilot





Freezing to death outside the Fang

prices have definitely gone up a bit but that's because the quality of the minis has increased an awful lot, the pricing of the kits is directly influenced by a few factors such as how many will sell (in the case of unique units) and how many man hours have gone into producing the models. Better quality models take longer to produce and so cost more.
As nearly everyone has mentioned GW isn't that bad compared to other hobbies especially if you compare how much you pay for how much fun you get out of it. Compare it to Lego for example, a similar hobby, which costs an awful lot more than Warhammer to get an equivalent kind of kit. £20-30 gets you a ten man unit, usually with lots of nice spares. £20-30 of Lego gets you barely anything and once you're done building it, that's it, you put it on a shelf and there's nothing more to do with it unless you fall between the ages of 5-12. Building and painting that £20-30 warhammer kit is going to take far longer than it did to build the Lego kit and you get to play games with the minis afterwards.

host of the eternity king 3500pts+ lizardmen 1000pts
and 2000pts+ 8000+ pts 1400+ pts
HH 7700+ pts 1350 pts HH raven guard 2500+ pts 50 pp Idoneth Deepkin 2000 pts
Glasdir's 30k space wolf blog 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Well, it is of course to each his own. If you are happy with the value of GWs prices then continue to pay the price.

One can arguably get the same value from other miniature manufacturers.

To give you an idea of the ridiculous prices that GW charges, consider smaller companies such as Khurasan miniatures. They sell 9 28mm METAL models for less than $13. Historicals such as those by the Perry Brothers are also inexpensive with a MSRP of approximately $1 per hard plastic figure. (For those who do not know, the Perry brothers sculpted for GW for many years.)

GW is simply gouging consumers.

TNEVA commented on characters. These need not be separate sprews. Last time I looked, most commanders in the military were only distinguished by an insignia. Even if they are different, they could be included on the sprew, and extra commander bits (super commander arms, etc.) could be added. The miracle of plastic.

Although there are expensive video games these days, such as ones that have DLC, many are very inexpensive and some are free. Even if you consider console prices, the nintendo switch is not considerably more expensive than the super nintendo was when it was released.

In terms of video games not having replay value, it depends on the game. People are going back to playing classic games, etc.
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

 spaceelf wrote:
The cost of producing minis should be lower than in the distant past now that minis are digitally sculpted. Need a Space Marine head, just copy and paste. Want to edit a weapon, no problem.

Compare the price of some greenstuff and some sculpting tools with a computer and the required software for that digital sculpt.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
The Hammer of Witches





A new day, a new time zone.

 Ghaz wrote:
 spaceelf wrote:
The cost of producing minis should be lower than in the distant past now that minis are digitally sculpted. Need a Space Marine head, just copy and paste. Want to edit a weapon, no problem.

Compare the price of some greenstuff and some sculpting tools with a computer and the required software for that digital sculpt.

Reminds me of the whining, 'why are game prices so high! You don't even have a physical disc! Why isn't it freeeeeeeeee~?"

Not to mention the silly argument about replaying games - I've got some minis about as old as my original NES, and the $40-$60 I was paying for cartridges back in the day. Wanna guess how many decades it's been since I've had that console. Meanwhile, in another thirty years, those minis will still be just as good.

"-Nonsense, the Inquisitor and his retinue are our hounoured guests, of course we should invite them to celebrate Four-armed Emperor-day with us..."
Thought for the Day - Never use the powerfist hand to wipe. 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 Ghaz wrote:
 spaceelf wrote:
The cost of producing minis should be lower than in the distant past now that minis are digitally sculpted. Need a Space Marine head, just copy and paste. Want to edit a weapon, no problem.

Compare the price of some greenstuff and some sculpting tools with a computer and the required software for that digital sculpt.


It is true that greenstuff and tools are less expensive than a computer. However, when you are a large business the computer is much much cheaper. You can edit files, and presumably eliminate the need to create the cast by hand. All of this saves many man hours which are costly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Bookwrack wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
 spaceelf wrote:
The cost of producing minis should be lower than in the distant past now that minis are digitally sculpted. Need a Space Marine head, just copy and paste. Want to edit a weapon, no problem.

Compare the price of some greenstuff and some sculpting tools with a computer and the required software for that digital sculpt.

Reminds me of the whining, 'why are game prices so high! You don't even have a physical disc! Why isn't it freeeeeeeeee~?"

Not to mention the silly argument about replaying games - I've got some minis about as old as my original NES, and the $40-$60 I was paying for cartridges back in the day. Wanna guess how many decades it's been since I've had that console. Meanwhile, in another thirty years, those minis will still be just as good.


I am not suggesting that minis should be free. I am stating that GWs prices are much higher than other miniature companies, for what I consider to be a comparable product.

In terms of you not playing your old nes games, there are lots of people who do play their old nes games. There are also people who do not play with old minis. It just depends on your perspective and values. For you, GWs prices may be just fine.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/02 00:31:18


 
   
Made in us
The Hammer of Witches





A new day, a new time zone.

 spaceelf wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
 spaceelf wrote:
The cost of producing minis should be lower than in the distant past now that minis are digitally sculpted. Need a Space Marine head, just copy and paste. Want to edit a weapon, no problem.

Compare the price of some greenstuff and some sculpting tools with a computer and the required software for that digital sculpt.


It is true that greenstuff and tools are less expensive than a computer. However, when you are a large business the computer is much much cheaper. You can edit files, and presumably eliminate the need to create the cast by hand. All of this saves many man hours which are costly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Bookwrack wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
 spaceelf wrote:
The cost of producing minis should be lower than in the distant past now that minis are digitally sculpted. Need a Space Marine head, just copy and paste. Want to edit a weapon, no problem.

Compare the price of some greenstuff and some sculpting tools with a computer and the required software for that digital sculpt.

Reminds me of the whining, 'why are game prices so high! You don't even have a physical disc! Why isn't it freeeeeeeeee~?"

Not to mention the silly argument about replaying games - I've got some minis about as old as my original NES, and the $40-$60 I was paying for cartridges back in the day. Wanna guess how many decades it's been since I've had that console. Meanwhile, in another thirty years, those minis will still be just as good.


I am not suggesting that minis should be free. I am stating that GWs prices are much higher than other miniature companies, for what I consider to be a comparable product.

In terms of you not playing your old nes games, there are lots of people who do play their old nes games. There are also people who do not play with old minis. It just depends on your perspective and values.


What on Earth are you nattering on about? How many video game systems still work after thirty year? Pay attention.

And you keep claiming that GW prices are higher than other companies, but have yet to make any serious arguments to back it up.

"-Nonsense, the Inquisitor and his retinue are our hounoured guests, of course we should invite them to celebrate Four-armed Emperor-day with us..."
Thought for the Day - Never use the powerfist hand to wipe. 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

Are you kidding?

You need evidence that other companies are more affordable on a per mini basis? Outside of Kingdom Death, I can't even think of another company that charges what GW charges for a clampack. And GW's big kits are terrible value compared to similar plastic kits from other companies.

GW has a great aesthetic and some of the best miniature quality around, but I'll take Mantic's GCPS over Cadians for a fourth of the price any day.

   
Made in gb
Sure Space Wolves Land Raider Pilot





Freezing to death outside the Fang

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Are you kidding?

You need evidence that other companies are more affordable on a per mini basis? Outside of Kingdom Death, I can't even think of another company that charges what GW charges for a clampack. And GW's big kits are terrible value compared to similar plastic kits from other companies.

GW has a great aesthetic and some of the best miniature quality around, but I'll take Mantic's GCPS over Cadians for a fourth of the price any day.

You are aware that the other companies are cheaper because they don’t use such high quality CAD software or don’t even use it at all in cases like the perry brothers? Industry grade CAD software packages are extremely expensive, GW’s software will cost them even more because they are paying for exclusive rights to it. I know this because I’ve asked them about what they use at previous warhammer fests, they’re not actually allowed to tell you what it is because of the exclusive licensing agreement. An awful lot of the price they charge will go towards maintaining that licence, which will be costinging them probably between £5k-10k a year.

host of the eternity king 3500pts+ lizardmen 1000pts
and 2000pts+ 8000+ pts 1400+ pts
HH 7700+ pts 1350 pts HH raven guard 2500+ pts 50 pp Idoneth Deepkin 2000 pts
Glasdir's 30k space wolf blog 
   
Made in be
Waaagh! Warbiker





Lier, Belgium

 spaceelf wrote:

To give you an idea of the ridiculous prices that GW charges, consider smaller companies such as Khurasan miniatures. They sell 9 28mm METAL models for less than $13.

I would buy a gw box at any time over this box for exact this reason: METAL.
I absolute hate it how fine parts of metal models bend, how easy they break when they fall and how easy the paint comes of when you touch them too many times. And most of the new gw models look fantastic IMO.

8000 points fully painted
hive fleet belphegor 3500 points
1k sons killteam

Dakka is the ork word for shooting, but the ork concept of shooting is saturation fire. Just as there is no such thing as a "miss" in a target-rich environment, there is no such thing as a "dodge" in a bullet rich one

 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






If the paint rubs off metal models, that's your fault, not the material it's made of. You've not primed it properly.

As to prices, Warmachine stuff is just as pricy, if not more. A heavy warjack is ~10% more than a dreadnought, for example, Protectorate Temple Flameguard cost 30% more than a unit of Primaris Intercessors. Likewise with Infinity; there basic line infantgry models are more than twice the cost (per model) of Space Marines, although individual models don't cost as much as character models from GW.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 wallygator wrote:
 spaceelf wrote:

To give you an idea of the ridiculous prices that GW charges, consider smaller companies such as Khurasan miniatures. They sell 9 28mm METAL models for less than $13.

I would buy a gw box at any time over this box for exact this reason: METAL.
I absolute hate it how fine parts of metal models bend, how easy they break when they fall and how easy the paint comes of when you touch them too many times. And most of the new gw models look fantastic IMO.


Metal is not for everyone. However, many companies produce plastic models that are cheaper than GW. I mentioned Perry Borhters in the sentence after the one that you quoted.

   
Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut




Design and aesthetics are personal, but in terms of how crisps the details are, I haven't seen any mini come close to GW's newer kits. So comparing Perry Brothers' plastics with GW doesn't make much sense.
Of course if you look at the old plastic kits from GW, the quality isn't better than the competition, but the price is still very high. There's definitely a wide spread in terms of value in what GW offers.
   
Made in be
Waaagh! Warbiker





Lier, Belgium

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
If the paint rubs off metal models, that's your fault, not the material it's made of. You've not primed it properly.



ah, that I didn't know. I just used the same primer i use on my plastic models. Could be Vallejo black primer or GW chaos black, not sure.

8000 points fully painted
hive fleet belphegor 3500 points
1k sons killteam

Dakka is the ork word for shooting, but the ork concept of shooting is saturation fire. Just as there is no such thing as a "miss" in a target-rich environment, there is no such thing as a "dodge" in a bullet rich one

 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Once the primer's on, the later coats are just sticking to the primer; it doesn't matter what's underneath it. If the primer's not sticking to the underlying model, then something's not working properly.

Metal models are more prone to chipping, but I think that's because they're heavier and any impacts are harder than between plastic models.
   
Made in us
Major




In a van down by the river

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Once the primer's on, the later coats are just sticking to the primer; it doesn't matter what's underneath it. If the primer's not sticking to the underlying model, then something's not working properly.

Metal models are more prone to chipping, but I think that's because they're heavier and any impacts are harder than between plastic models.


And metal is rather famous for having no give on impacts while plastic can distribute the force much better. Mold release cleaning is also a thing that people sometimes overlook since injection plastic doesn't require it.

On the actual topic of the thread, I do want to echo Orlando's point on video games: they've kept that price point for the "basic" version but if you get into the "true cost" of AAA games, you're actually looking at hundreds of dollars for DLCs and content that "used to be" in the game on release. Anymore you have the trend of publishers releasing a basic framework as a finished game and then showing the "roadmap" of content to actually make it the intended experience. You bring up that there are free video games, but those aren't in the class as the "brand-name" publishers and the titles that are offered "for free" are rarely enjoyable for long without spending money.

With GW, you're paying for the IP; plain and simple. Tons of people produce miniatures, but very few produce 40k Space Marines and only one manages to keep their product readily available across the globe. There are certainly companies producing objectively better miniatures, but none that produce the IP which is a huge component of GW's approach. It's the same reason that those expensive video games that rake in billions tend to be around established franchises; the brand is far more important than the product.

If the IP doesn't matter to you and you just want to play games, then GW certainly becomes a more arguable cost-benefit situation and depends on your local gaming scene. Warhammer is ubiquitous meaning the money spent on those game systems is more likely to return gaming hours across a wider variety of scenarios. Doesn't mean it's the only or best option, but that's up to the individual to decide. As the saying goes "the value of a good is what the market is willing to pay" and clearly despite what can be viewed as very high costs, people are indeed willing to pay that.
   
 
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