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Iron Man has always been popular enough to make regular appearances but never reached the kind of appeal that carried his own series. People had almost certainly encountered him whether its seeing an episode of the cartoon or in one of Capcom's fighters, but they didn't really know anything about him.
A big part of this is just that his rogue's gallery has always been kind of trash. So much of what makes a character interesting is the ability to have them face a consistent stream of exciting villains. That's really why Spidey and Batman and the X-Men thrive.
It's also hard to understate just how impactful the Extremis redesign really was. Replacing the "metallic tights" look that had dominated most of his design with something that looked like an actual machine really gave the character a proper engineer/gearhead hook that resonates with people. I still find it very hard to read any of his pre-extremis comics. The robo abs just don't work for me.
People say that Marvel aced the comic book fidelity component, but they actually redefined some of the characters quite a bit for the films. Most movie goers just didn't know it. There was some Disneyification going on there even before Disney.
The MCU is pretty heavily built upon removing the Mark Millar from Ultimates.
Yeah, with the militarized Avengers and all. Honestly, I thought that was one of the (perhaps very few) good things that they were doing on the DC side. Having the Justice League simply be an assemblage of powerful beings and not a division of a government agency. Superman explicitly telling the military/government that he won't work for them or be controlled by them is one of the things they got right in MoS, IMO.
And now there's talk of Marvel bringing RDJ and ScarJo back from the dead. If that's happening, then we know it's over...
It would be true to the source material though. Nobody killed in comic books ever truly dies.
It was one of the fundamental flaws of the MCU from the beginning. It just took time for it to become apparent. You can draw the same character for 100 years, but actors age out or move on. And star power still matters a lot in moviemaking. So if you want to keep that strict continuity, you're going to have to roll the dice on introducing new actors and characters and hoping they catch on like the originals. And audiences are more fickle than ever.
It didn't help that they likely expected Black Panther to be one of the big draws in the post-Endgame era. Then they thought they landed on the right actor-villain combo with Kang and stuff happened there too. And unlike the very early days of the MCU, it's harder for them to make easy course corrections.
LunarSol wrote: Iron Man has always been popular enough to make regular appearances but never reached the kind of appeal that carried his own series. People had almost certainly encountered him whether its seeing an episode of the cartoon or in one of Capcom's fighters, but they didn't really know anything about him.
A big part of this is just that his rogue's gallery has always been kind of trash.
Well, more than that, his most famous villain is full on Fu Manchu yellow peril nonsense, and that just doesn't fly now.
I was surprised when they managed to subvert it, and even more surprised when they managed to pull something decent out of comic's garbage fire concept in Shang Chi.
Ahtman wrote: I don't think I would say Iron Man was C tier but a solid B. Sure he wasn't as well known as Spider-Man, Hulk or Captain America but he was an original Avenger and made appearances in animated series, even had his own in the 90s, as well as an appearance on The Incredible Hulk.
It isn't like he is ROM: Space Knight.
When the first Ironman came out people thought the character was a robot.
General populous wise, people were more familiar with the song than the character.
Again didn't say he was a household name just that he wasn't so obscure that no one but die hard comic fans knew of him. There is a far bigger middle ground between zero knowledge and comic book aficionado.
Fantastic Four seems to be another that is semi known that has been hoisted up on multiple occasions (several cartoons, an anime, and a few live action) but that just can't seem to make that break through to main stream popularity.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
He would’ve been known, because he’s had cartoons in the past, and his own comic on the stands.
But, I wonder if it’s one of those characters the man in the street would recognise the name of, but not be able to say if it was a Marvel or D.C. character. That low level awareness stuff.
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Its interesting that you assume such a person would know that Marvel and DC are different (or their names).
I can't think of many non-comics people that talk about 'that DC character, XX' or 'that guy from Marvel comics.'
Its different now, of course, because the film brands are pushed hard, but in the old days, comic books were comic books. The differences were for that comic book nerd.
Pre-2008, I reckon quite a few folk would’ve heard of him. But damn few could’ve told you anything about the character and his adventures and powers.
His specific adventures? No, not likely - other than "fights Marvel Comics bad guys".
His powers though? Easy. He flies around in an armored suit & shoots lasers out of his hands.
It's also a fair guess that his suit is some degree of invulnerable & that he's rich.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
Headline on the Forbes article summed up my thoughts when the trailer started with Downey and Evans.
Spoiler:
The Final ‘The Marvels’ Trailer Is Transparently Desperate
Marvel is bracing for impact as The Marvels is shaping up to be one of the MCU’s biggest box office bombs, really no matter what the quality of the film ends up being. It’s the wrong film at the wrong time for the MCU, and early pre-sales have it tracking below DC’s disastrous The Flash.
So, Marvel and Disney are now pulling out all the stops. And by that I mean releasing a “final” trailer for the film that is so transparently desperate it actually hurts to watch. And I say that not as some weird Brie Larson-hater but as someone who is genuinely looking forward to the film (more Iman Vellani as Kamala!).
The trailer sheds the lighthearted tone of the older spots and appears to be trying to make this a direct continuation of Avengers Endgame. It opens with multiple scenes of Tony Stark and Steve Rogers, both of whom have both left the MCU at this point, flashing back to their final battle against Thanos, while reminding us that yes, Captain Marvel was also there
But it’s not just awkward nostalgia bait, The Marvels is now content to spoil some of its own plot points and cameos in order to try to sell more tickets. Namely the trailer outright teases multiverse integration when that wasn’t seen before. It also shows off a cameo from Tessa Thompson’s Valkyrie which was not previously known. And to top it all off, we have The Avengers theme playing over the title card at the end. Embarassing.
All of this serves the narrative that this is going to go badly, and Marvel knows it’s going to go badly. It feels like the last stop on the train where the MCU has been so die-hard about integrating its movies and Disney Plus shows, with Captain Marvel 1, WandaVision, Ms. Marvel and Secret Invasion all serving as “backstory” for this.
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Once upon a time there was a grand plan that the “successors” to the MCU’s Tony/Steve/Thor central trio would be Black Panther, Captain Marvel and Spider-Man. That was unraveled by Chadwick Boseman’s tragic death, then the insane online hate campaign against Brie Larson which disillusioned her from the role, and the only real thriving member for a time was Tom Holland’s Peter, but even he’s now sort of in limbo.
Plans are already changing after The Marvels on the assumption it will not do well. Disney Plus shows are being scaled back or are turning into more standalone projects that don’t require years of MCU backstory to enjoy. Marvel’s current biggest problem is figuring out what to do with Kang and Jonathan Majors, but past that, the future looks somewhat brighter with the Fantastic Four and X-Men on the way soon enough.
This isn’t going to be good, box office wise, but I do hope at least the movie itself is good, and it’s a shame they had a cut a trailer this cringe-inducing before release. Reviews should be in soon.
Tracking below The Flash in box offcie take is wild!
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
I haven’t seen a good review on anything sci fi related on the Forbes website. IMHO they seem to be a bit biased.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
The "algorithm" behind this one has been pretty wild from the get go. I can't say I've seen as much clickbait with headlines clearly designed to skew me towards assuming the worst in a long while, but I've been feeling like there's been a big upswing of that in general in the last 6-8 months. Most of the YouTube suggestions outside of my subscribed channels are why something is DOOMED or FAILED or DYING or what have you. I'm back to wielding the block button regularly again.
In one of easily the single best years in video game history, I'm just at a point where the internet needs to shut up and let me enjoy things.
I’m starting to think it’s not a Marvel thing or a Disney thing or even a “movies” thing. This is in every aspect of life now. People are sick of it—all of it—and end up hating on everything.
Its weird, I watched most of the trailer on mute at work as I was packing up, and thought while the member berries were oddly strong at the start, it actually looked like they were trying to show off an actual plot for the first time (beyond zany power swapping), with an actual villain who legitimately seems like a threat (which is pretty novel for Marvel movies).
If Forbes wants to write a Doom Screed for the movie showing off an actual plot, then... whatever.
I did? The article posted further up insists that the trailer is desperate and cringe-inducing and stuff. I mean, since the author insists he's not some weird Brie Larson hater, and I'm reasonably sure I'm not some weird Brie Larson hater, we should see eye to eye on the trailer. Right?
But totally different reception. Boggles my mind.
Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone?
Well, no. Hating Brie Larson is some weirdo deranged thing from clickbait sites.
The trailer seemed fine to me, but I can see people having completely different takes on the trailer in ways that have nothing to do with Brie Larson at all. Thats pretty normal, really.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I’m starting to think it’s not a Marvel thing or a Disney thing or even a “movies” thing. This is in every aspect of life now. People are sick of it—all of it—and end up hating on everything.
I don't think it's anything new. Sensational headlines have always sold; negative gossip has always been in heavy circulation. People write this stuff because people click on it. The main thing that's new is the ability for bots to push this stuff into heavy circulation regardless of how popular it truly is.
Well, reviews are out, and they are brutal. Critics known for their even-handedness are calling this a disaster. The only consistent point of praise is the actress who plays Ms Marvel.
Not really surprised. I've got a few critics I kind of go to that haven't chimed in I'll be curious to hear from. I learned a while back that meta scores matter far less than the opinions of people who's reviews I tend to agree with.
Oddly, IGN of all places seems pretty positive on it. At no point have I been hyped to see this one, but its increasingly becoming a curiosity.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
