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Gaunts stayed the same price and lost fleet. Hormagaunts lost 12" charge and went down to WS3. Broodlords lost power weapons and synapse. The whole army lost grenades. Practically everything else doubled in price except zoanthropes (who lost 2+ armor in favor of a 3+ invulnerable), lictors (who are like they were in 3rd edition except they're forced to be sitting ducks for a turn), and biovores (who lost anti-tank and poison mines and went up in points).


Everything lost move through cover and 2+ armor is practically a thing of the past (available only as a tyrannofex feature and ludicrously expensive hive tyrant upgrade). You are no longer allowed to manually twin-link weapons, and in many cases are not allowed to take perfectly legitimate configurations from before (sniperfexes, flesh hooks on anything but lictors, rending MCs, etc).


Even if you owned Tyranids, you're going to have to buy a new army.

Broken Loose wrote:Even if you owned Tyranids, you're going to have to buy a new army.

Except for genestealers, gargoyles, termagants, hormagaunts, zoanthropes, and magnetized carnifex/hive tyrants/warriors...etc.

You'll be changing your FoC for sure, and I don't know how I can settle on just one take-all-comers list with all of the new options.

So, question, have they finally gone back to calling Termagants by their right name?

Altimera wrote:

Broken Loose wrote:Even if you owned Tyranids, you're going to have to buy a new army.

Except for genestealers, gargoyles, termagants, hormagaunts, zoanthropes, and magnetized carnifex/hive tyrants/warriors...etc.

You'll be changing your FoC for sure, and I don't know how I can settle on just one take-all-comers list with all of the new options.

You're spot on about the genestealers, but if by "magnetized" you mean you magnetized your fexes to permanently stay in their army case, then yes, you won't need to worry about your fexes for the next 4-6 years.

Nurglitch wrote:So, question, have they finally gone back to calling Termagants by their right name?

Termagants are now back to being termagants. "Gaunts" are gone. Too bad half the internet will ever learn how to spell termagant correctly.

Here's a question for the group - based off what you have read - rumors, leaked codexes, etc. etc., is the Hive Tyrant/Tyrant Guard combo really worth it? I'm concerned about it due to the fact that the Hive Tyrant, even for a cheap setup, runs about the same cost as a landraider and is still limited to footslogging, as well as no invul save. Pyschic powers aside making it nasty in CC, would there be more cost effective options? (i.e. Alpha warrior and adding in a unit of warriors or raveners or whatnot).

Im still /sadface over the loss of broodlord as an HQ option. My genestealer cult fluffly army is nerdraging.

Broken Loose wrote:Gaunts stayed the same price and lost fleet. Hormagaunts lost 12" charge and went down to WS3. Broodlords lost power weapons and synapse. The whole army lost grenades. Practically everything else doubled in price except zoanthropes (who lost 2+ armor in favor of a 3+ invulnerable), lictors (who are like they were in 3rd edition except they're forced to be sitting ducks for a turn), and biovores (who lost anti-tank and poison mines and went up in points).

Everything lost move through cover and 2+ armor is practically a thing of the past (available only as a tyrannofex feature and ludicrously expensive hive tyrant upgrade). You are no longer allowed to manually twin-link weapons, and in many cases are not allowed to take perfectly legitimate configurations from before (sniperfexes, flesh hooks on anything but lictors, rending MCs, etc).

Even if you owned Tyranids, you're going to have to buy a new army.

Genestealers & Hormagaunts still have Move Through Cover, it is just no longer an army wide rule. Toxic sacs giving poison means those two units can kill anything with a wound value so make good troops. Termagants are more playable than before although most players are going to want different guns on them. Those players that ran there army with a sole Broodlord/Warrior as HQ will now need an Alpha Warrior and Nidzilla players got screwed but other than that players should not need new armies. A few biomorph changes and most players will be ready to go.

Broken Loose wrote:You're spot on about the genestealers, but if by "magnetized" you mean you magnetized your fexes to permanently stay in their army case, then yes, you won't need to worry about your fexes for the next 4-6 years.

There is a trade off between Carnifex and Trygon. Fex's are better against AV 14 & have better gun options. Trygon has more wounds and is better in melee. So Carnifex's have a niche roll of gun-beasts that can take out Land Raiders.

Mattbranb wrote:Here's a question for the group - based off what you have read - rumors, leaked codexes, etc. etc., is the Hive Tyrant/Tyrant Guard combo really worth it? I'm concerned about it due to the fact that the Hive Tyrant, even for a cheap setup, runs about the same cost as a landraider and is still limited to footslogging, as well as no invul save. Pyschic powers aside making it nasty in CC, would there be more cost effective options? (i.e. Alpha warrior and adding in a unit of warriors or raveners or whatnot).

Alpha Warriors are more cost effective. I will still be taking Hive Tyrants because I have the models and the Psi Powers enhance the rest of the army.

Mattbranb wrote:Here's a question for the group - based off what you have read - rumors, leaked codexes, etc. etc., is the Hive Tyrant/Tyrant Guard combo really worth it? I'm concerned about it due to the fact that the Hive Tyrant, even for a cheap setup, runs about the same cost as a landraider and is still limited to footslogging, as well as no invul save. Pyschic powers aside making it nasty in CC, would there be more cost effective options? (i.e. Alpha warrior and adding in a unit of warriors or raveners or whatnot).

tyrants base prices are about 3/4ths a land raider, they come with whip/sword/talons

kitsunez wrote:

Mattbranb wrote:Here's a question for the group - based off what you have read - rumors, leaked codexes, etc. etc., is the Hive Tyrant/Tyrant Guard combo really worth it? I'm concerned about it due to the fact that the Hive Tyrant, even for a cheap setup, runs about the same cost as a landraider and is still limited to footslogging, as well as no invul save. Pyschic powers aside making it nasty in CC, would there be more cost effective options? (i.e. Alpha warrior and adding in a unit of warriors or raveners or whatnot).

tyrants base prices are about 3/4ths a land raider, they come with whip/sword/talons

True, but they need about 1/4 of the price of a land raider in upgrades to be worth using.

Broken Loose wrote: "...früher war alles besser..." (german saying: "In the past, everything was better.")

Even if you owned Tyranids, you're going to have to buy a new army.

If you want the tournament killer list, you usually have to buy the maximum of new models with every new release. Surprise

I have to buy exactly one new model: the Trygon.

Demogerg wrote:Im still /sadface over the loss of broodlord as an HQ option. My genestealer cult fluffly army is nerdraging.

Why don't you use a Warrior Alpha for as a hq broodlord?

Greets
Schepp himself

I'm not sure how the BL got worst? If by losing power weapon ability he got worst vs MEQ's then it's a duh.

At 80pts though he was actually TOO cheap for what he did. He could usually eat entire tac squads on his own and the cheapest ones are 170 (unless combat squaded as our SM players don't min/max so most infantry squads are taken full size).

He is a termie plus a hormogaunt in cost, lost power weapon, can no longer be picked out in melee, gained a pt of T (doesn't matter until he is the last one alive which most cases he will be) but gains 2 powers that can severly weaken an enemy squad, that most times will work and even if you encounter a pesky librarian will still get the power off 50% of the time.

At the cost of 3 SM's he'll kill at least that many before he dies, especially backed up with up to 19 ablative wounds (yes stealers can go up to broods of 20 in case anyone who has seen the codex missed it and for those that haven't).

I can take 20 stealers for the price of 12 of my old ones and they are more killy. Not as durable but I gained 8 more stealers for the tradeoff of bolters and flamers killing them. Depending on what's shooting at them it does make the brood slightly more survivable. Heavy bolters never cared about the 4+ save anyway and a HB dev squad would kill a large majority of a brood of 12 in one round of shooting; now it'll take an extra round on average to wipe out a brood.

Fateweaver wrote:I'm not sure how the BL got worst? If by losing power weapon ability he got worst vs MEQ's then it's a duh.

At 80pts though he was actually TOO cheap for what he did. He could usually eat entire tac squads on his own and the cheapest ones are 170 (unless combat squaded as our SM players don't min/max so most infantry squads are taken full size).

He is a termie plus a hormogaunt in cost, lost power weapon, can no longer be picked out in melee, gained a pt of T (doesn't matter until he is the last one alive which most cases he will be) but gains 2 powers that can severly weaken an enemy squad, that most times will work and even if you encounter a pesky librarian will still get the power off 50% of the time.

At the cost of 3 SM's he'll kill at least that many before he dies, especially backed up with up to 19 ablative wounds (yes stealers can go up to broods of 20 in case anyone who has seen the codex missed it and for those that haven't).

I can take 20 stealers for the price of 12 of my old ones and they are more killy. Not as durable but I gained 8 more stealers for the tradeoff of bolters and flamers killing them. Depending on what's shooting at them it does make the brood slightly more survivable. Heavy bolters never cared about the 4+ save anyway and a HB dev squad would kill a large majority of a brood of 12 in one round of shooting; now it'll take an extra round on average to wipe out a brood.

He got worse because he is no longer an HQ option.

also, he used to be purchased with a retinue, and could not be singled out, so the change from HQ with retinue to upgrade character only really has a couple of minor changes the most important of which is that they cannot be taken as mandatory HQ slot.

/nerdrage

Well for me he got better. I can't take an HQ Broodlord but now I can take more than 2 if I want. I can also take 9 broods of stealers instead of just 6, which got better in general and the elite stealers are the bees knees.

For my stealer shock army the codex improved my army quite a bit.

Now it just means I can run a 2nd Tyrant or an Alpha warrior or the uber-badass assault tyrant (just need chapterhouse to get moving on the boneswords for nids). Wink, wink.

Gaunts stayed the same price and lost fleet.

Not quite true. The 5 point spinegaunt went up in price, the 6 point termagant went down in price. I'd rather have the new termagant over the old spinegaunt. Main reason is change to IB rules -- they can actually do what troops are suppose to do in 5ed. The boosts they get via tervigons (and their ability to make tervigons a scoring choice) are also big improvements.

Loss of fleet is minimal issue since everyone can run.

Hormagaunts lost 12" charge and went down to WS3.

Hormagaunt became a faster scythegaunt ala 3ed era. Most people with tactical sense and/or reduction of the kneejerk reaction realize hormagaunts are waay better then before. They actually have a purpose rather then being a waste compared to more efficient options.

Broodlords lost power weapons and synapse.

Broodlord also gained fleet and some nifty powers and is 0-6 instead of 0-1. Also synapse is readily available in the new dex (and is also less neccessary) so is minor loss.

The whole army lost grenades.

But then again many units gained option to take lashwhip which is better then a frag grenade. I won't argue that isn't a big hit to nid effectiveness (my stealers will miss it for sure) but I think for game balance and fluff it was a good change.

Practically everything else doubled in price except zoanthropes

Bit unfair when the so called doubling in price doesn't include the bundled gear, stat boosts from prior or general improvements for the unit. Yes many things lost their edge in efficiency but it is not end of the world/ stuff is completely unviability nerfings (at least in my opinion).

lictors (who are like they were in 3rd edition except they're forced to be sitting ducks for a turn),

Actually they deploy nothing like 3ed. They can appear anywhere legal for them to be placed, not just a terrain peice you nominate. They gained fleet (something oft overlooked -- I think they were pretty marginal without it). They do similar damage the turn they arrive via their shooting attack and since they no longer scatter, mishap or take dangerous terrain it is much more reliable. They are also more of a cc threat since they are 3-9 wounds instead of just 2 easy to kill ones (5ed made the 4eddex ones utter trash in close combat).

Lictors overall are better -- even without the much touted but vastly over rated assault after DS they used to have -- their problem now is less about rules and more becuase they compete with auto-add Hive Guard/zoanthropes.

and biovores (who lost anti-tank and poison mines and went up in points).

Biovores are cheaper! 45 now versus 50 before for cheapest biovore. They also went from 6+ save to 4+ (which is huge) and gained a pip of leadership. They are no longer 0-1 and aren't hampered by stupid rules (giving up KPs due to scatter) or dawn of war (assault1 now versus heavy1 before). They were never reliable antitank, now they simply aren't anti-tank. Personally, they would fit in nicely with a shooty oriented MSU approach army -- and I am not alone in that idea. I never bought a biovore, now I am considering it (or using a pyrovore model instead).

Everything lost move through cover

'Everything' is a much broader then reality. MCs have it by default. Both types of stealers, both types of gaunts, lictors and ravenors retain it. Of the 4ed units, only warriors, zoanthropes, rippers, gargoyles and biovores lost it (and arguably only warriors and gargoyles are a bit worse off for it).

and 2+ armor is practically a thing of the past (available only as a tyrannofex feature and ludicrously expensive hive tyrant upgrade).

You make it sound like it was readily available to begin with -- since only the heavy carnifex and tyrant could take it in 4ed. It will be less common, but considering I never took it, I am not lamenting its loss much.

You are no longer allowed to manually twin-link weapons

Except for one case on one unit that was a marginal choice to begin with(spitter warriors), no one in their right mind did this anyways.

and in many cases are not allowed to take perfectly legitimate configurations from before (sniperfexes, flesh hooks on anything but lictors, rending MCs, etc).

Making sniperfex illegal was a bit of a surprise, but considering the changes to barbed strangler and the cost, I woulda remodled my gunfex anyways. Flesh hooks modeled are mearly a cosmetic mod now -- hardly a big deal beyond the loss of frag rules (see above). And who took rending claws on MCs?

Granted, I am not all 100% behind some of the design choices in this new dex, but it isn't as bad as the vast majority of the internets seems to portray.

Broken Loose wrote:
Termagants are now back to being termagants. "Gaunts" are gone. Too bad half the internet will ever learn how to spell termagant correctly.

Or know their true definition:

ter·ma·gant (tûrm-gnt)
n.
A quarrelsome, scolding woman; a shrew.

Bonus, Harridan:

har·ri·dan (hr-dn)
n.
A woman regarded as scolding and vicious.

Someone at GW had a bad breakup...

Alpharius wrote:

Broken Loose wrote:
Termagants are now back to being termagants. "Gaunts" are gone. Too bad half the internet will ever learn how to spell termagant correctly.

Or know their true definition:

ter·ma·gant (tûrm-gnt)
n.
A quarrelsome, scolding woman; a shrew.

Bonus, Harridan:

har·ri·dan (hr-dn)
n.
A woman regarded as scolding and vicious.

Someone at GW had a bad breakup...

Peter Parker agrees!

Don't forget that lictors now have bonus usefulness with the addition of spore transports. The pin-point deepstriking and the +1 to reserve rolls might actually see some use now, whereas before lictors had very little real purpose.

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:Don't forget that lictors now have bonus usefulness with the addition of spore transports. The pin-point deepstriking and the +1 to reserve rolls might actually see some use now, whereas before lictors had very little real purpose.

only if they start on the board.... now only useful on a maybe turn 3


Automatically Appended Next Post:

kitsunez wrote:

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:Don't forget that lictors now have bonus usefulness with the addition of spore transports. The pin-point deepstriking and the +1 to reserve rolls might actually see some use now, whereas before lictors had very little real purpose.

only if they start on the board.... now only useful on a maybe turn 3

also they have to start in reserve

I think that the termagant name, in this case, was probably inspired by the critter in Jack Vance's _The Dragon Masters_, rather than by the shrewish woman:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dragon_Masters

Vance is a sufficiently well-known fantasy & SF author for it to be likely that GW staff had read him, & that book is one of his most famous (and the termagants in it are basically one of the smaller, anthropomorphic fighting dragons). In fact, I'm pretty sure that an old White Dwarf (when WD still covered non-GW games) had an article that gave game stats for dragons from _The Dragon Masters_.

kitsunez wrote:

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:Don't forget that lictors now have bonus usefulness with the addition of spore transports. The pin-point deepstriking and the +1 to reserve rolls might actually see some use now, whereas before lictors had very little real purpose.

only if they start on the board.... now only useful on a maybe turn 3


Automatically Appended Next Post:

kitsunez wrote:

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:Don't forget that lictors now have bonus usefulness with the addition of spore transports. The pin-point deepstriking and the +1 to reserve rolls might actually see some use now, whereas before lictors had very little real purpose.

only if they start on the board.... now only useful on a maybe turn 3

also they have to start in reserve

If you have the hive tyrant with the +1 reserve rolls, it would be cumulative, right? So that way you could nearly guarantee that your pods arrive early enough in the game to make a difference.

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:

kitsunez wrote:

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:Don't forget that lictors now have bonus usefulness with the addition of spore transports. The pin-point deepstriking and the +1 to reserve rolls might actually see some use now, whereas before lictors had very little real purpose.

only if they start on the board.... now only useful on a maybe turn 3


Automatically Appended Next Post:

kitsunez wrote:

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:Don't forget that lictors now have bonus usefulness with the addition of spore transports. The pin-point deepstriking and the +1 to reserve rolls might actually see some use now, whereas before lictors had very little real purpose.

only if they start on the board.... now only useful on a maybe turn 3

also they have to start in reserve

If you have the hive tyrant with the +1 reserve rolls, it would be cumulative, right? So that way you could nearly guarantee that your pods arrive early enough in the game to make a difference.

I admit thats one of the reasons to use swarmlord but i also have to say lictors are not that good i've used them a bit...they do indeed suck

Ian Sturrock wrote:I think that the termagant name, in this case, was probably inspired by the critter in Jack Vance's _The Dragon Masters_, rather than by the shrewish woman:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dragon_Masters

Vance is a sufficiently well-known fantasy & SF author for it to be likely that GW staff had read him, & that book is one of his most famous (and the termagants in it are basically one of the smaller, anthropomorphic fighting dragons). In fact, I'm pretty sure that an old White Dwarf (when WD still covered non-GW games) had an article that gave game stats for dragons from _The Dragon Masters_.

As a HUGE Jack Vance fan, you've made my day!

Eyes of the Overworld and Cugel's Saga (along with Rhialto the Marvelous) are some of the finest fantasy out there, and clearly served as inspiration for many things that were eventually found in D&D.

And believe me, Vance definitely knew the definitions to those words when he chose to use them - the man is a master wordsmith!

winterman wrote:

Gaunts stayed the same price and lost fleet.

Not quite true. The 5 point spinegaunt went up in price, the 6 point termagant went down in price. I'd rather have the new termagant over the old spinegaunt. Main reason is change to IB rules -- they can actually do what troops are suppose to do in 5ed. The boosts they get via tervigons (and their ability to make tervigons a scoring choice) are also big improvements.

Loss of fleet is minimal issue since everyone can run.

Hormagaunts lost 12" charge and went down to WS3.

Hormagaunt became a faster scythegaunt ala 3ed era. Most people with tactical sense and/or reduction of the kneejerk reaction realize hormagaunts are waay better then before. They actually have a purpose rather then being a waste compared to more efficient options.

Broodlords lost power weapons and synapse.

Broodlord also gained fleet and some nifty powers and is 0-6 instead of 0-1. Also synapse is readily available in the new dex (and is also less neccessary) so is minor loss.

The whole army lost grenades.

But then again many units gained option to take lashwhip which is better then a frag grenade. I won't argue that isn't a big hit to nid effectiveness (my stealers will miss it for sure) but I think for game balance and fluff it was a good change.

Practically everything else doubled in price except zoanthropes

Bit unfair when the so called doubling in price doesn't include the bundled gear, stat boosts from prior or general improvements for the unit. Yes many things lost their edge in efficiency but it is not end of the world/ stuff is completely unviability nerfings (at least in my opinion).

lictors (who are like they were in 3rd edition except they're forced to be sitting ducks for a turn),

Actually they deploy nothing like 3ed. They can appear anywhere legal for them to be placed, not just a terrain peice you nominate. They gained fleet (something oft overlooked -- I think they were pretty marginal without it). They do similar damage the turn they arrive via their shooting attack and since they no longer scatter, mishap or take dangerous terrain it is much more reliable. They are also more of a cc threat since they are 3-9 wounds instead of just 2 easy to kill ones (5ed made the 4eddex ones utter trash in close combat).

Lictors overall are better -- even without the much touted but vastly over rated assault after DS they used to have -- their problem now is less about rules and more becuase they compete with auto-add Hive Guard/zoanthropes.

and biovores (who lost anti-tank and poison mines and went up in points).

Biovores are cheaper! 45 now versus 50 before for cheapest biovore. They also went from 6+ save to 4+ (which is huge) and gained a pip of leadership. They are no longer 0-1 and aren't hampered by stupid rules (giving up KPs due to scatter) or dawn of war (assault1 now versus heavy1 before). They were never reliable antitank, now they simply aren't anti-tank. Personally, they would fit in nicely with a shooty oriented MSU approach army -- and I am not alone in that idea. I never bought a biovore, now I am considering it (or using a pyrovore model instead).

Everything lost move through cover

'Everything' is a much broader then reality. MCs have it by default. Both types of stealers, both types of gaunts, lictors and ravenors retain it. Of the 4ed units, only warriors, zoanthropes, rippers, gargoyles and biovores lost it (and arguably only warriors and gargoyles are a bit worse off for it).

and 2+ armor is practically a thing of the past (available only as a tyrannofex feature and ludicrously expensive hive tyrant upgrade).

You make it sound like it was readily available to begin with -- since only the heavy carnifex and tyrant could take it in 4ed. It will be less common, but considering I never took it, I am not lamenting its loss much.

You are no longer allowed to manually twin-link weapons

Except for one case on one unit that was a marginal choice to begin with(spitter warriors), no one in their right mind did this anyways.

and in many cases are not allowed to take perfectly legitimate configurations from before (sniperfexes, flesh hooks on anything but lictors, rending MCs, etc).

Making sniperfex illegal was a bit of a surprise, but considering the changes to barbed strangler and the cost, I woulda remodled my gunfex anyways. Flesh hooks modeled are mearly a cosmetic mod now -- hardly a big deal beyond the loss of frag rules (see above). And who took rending claws on MCs?

Granted, I am not all 100% behind some of the design choices in this new dex, but it isn't as bad as the vast majority of the internets seems to portray.

Best post in this thread!!!

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:Don't forget that lictors now have bonus usefulness with the addition of spore transports. The pin-point deepstriking and the +1 to reserve rolls might actually see some use now, whereas before lictors had very little real purpose.

Unfortunately they still have very little real purpose--they apparently need to be on the board to grant +1 to reserves so that means turn 3 at the very earliest since they themselves must start in reserve. Furthermore, there is also some question as to whether or not you can use their deep strike beacon ability they turn they come in--if not then it's pretty much useless.

How the hell did I doublepost?

Im still /sadface over the loss of broodlord as an HQ option. My genestealer cult fluffly army is nerdraging.

Your genestealer cult was never fluffy if all it had was genestealers and broodlords. Thats not how cults operate. The cultists and worshippers far outnumber the purestrain genestealers in a genestealer cult. You're better off using IG to represent a genestealer cult as they exist in the fluff.

Alpharius wrote:

Broken Loose wrote:
Termagants are now back to being termagants. "Gaunts" are gone. Too bad half the internet will ever learn how to spell termagant correctly.

Or know their true definition:

ter·ma·gant (tûrm-gnt)
n.
A quarrelsome, scolding woman; a shrew.

Bonus, Harridan:

har·ri·dan (hr-dn)
n.
A woman regarded as scolding and vicious.

Someone at GW had a bad breakup...

A long time ago, back before the Brits found out that the god of Islam was the same YHVH that they believed in, they thought that Muslims worshiped "Termagant." Having our line troops be named after a chief deity is WAY more badass than any alternatives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Termagant

ShumaGorath wrote:

Im still /sadface over the loss of broodlord as an HQ option. My genestealer cult fluffly army is nerdraging.

Your genestealer cult was never fluffy if all it had was genestealers and broodlords. Thats not how cults operate. The cultists and worshippers far outnumber the purestrain genestealers in a genestealer cult. You're better off using IG to represent a genestealer cult as they exist in the fluff.

and my genestealer cult is a 4 player team army consisting of 2 players with IG, one with nothing but genestealers and broodlord, and a third player with hybrids counts as gaunts.

Please stop trolling you trollish troll.

What we all have to remember is that the 5th Codex is going to be DIFFERENT to the 4th. Keep an open mind about things... People would complain if the current Codex was not updated or it was only changed very slightly and people would also complain if it changes alot. Fluff-wise, the Tyranids are constantly changing as they meet new species' and find ways to defeat them.
For now, give GW a chance to change something; once its done and published, its done. I know that GW can be a trying at times to say the least but remember that this is going to be a turning stone for Tyranids and their proper introduction to 5th.
I, for one, am looking forward to the changes. We, as gamers, are just going to have to review the Codex and play test for ourselves to see what works.

EdM

now that i have had a chance to read it....

its nice gonna be some fearsome stuff out there now from tyranid