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DarkStarSabre wrote:

Mr.Church13 wrote:

Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:So did anyone else notice that Waaagh!ing is now pretty much pointless?

Sure did! Anyone else notice how this edition slapped pretty much everything but Imperials and non Mat Ward codices with the good ole whiffle-nerf bat?

I don't know. I suppose I could say that....hmm...wait...no.

Was gonna say Orks got a boost but their army ability is a bit worthless and where some units got boosted others got ignored.
Tyranids got Psyker shenigans....if only any of their Psykers could cast a third of the abilities they have access too!

Chaos got a boost. Sort of. Khornate things got kicked but Nurgle got away all dirty.

All I say is allies - Typhus and Epidemius. Reach the magic number and Typhus becomes a GOD with 2+/5++/3+ FNP, Poison wounds on 2+ at AP2 and S5 with a force weapon. Or if he gets bored he could potentially put out 9 attacks.

Nurgle got away laughing.

Also, Chaos Spawn got kind of buffed? The wording on the FAQs is a bit vague - roll a D6 for each spawn, add them together, that is the total number of attacks the spawn get. .....Each? OH MY.

Shooting got strongly buffed, assaulting in general got made more random and in many cases weaker. This translates into a metagame shifted further towards the already dominant shooting portions of the game. There are more xenos armies forced into a purely melee role (Orks, tyranids) than imperial armies (None) so it appears that the edition is buffing imperial codices. In truth it's just buffing any army that doesn't bother to assault or which recieves assaults better than it makes them. Overwatch hurts armies with small light assault units like dark eldar badly and the reduction in cover and the general nerfing of fleet and flanking with assault forces hurts swarmy armies like nids and orks which relied on such tactics.

Guns and flying things are king in sixth.

azazel the cat wrote:I've never seen what generally happens when an edition updates before, so I've got a question:

I don't see any generalized FAQ for the core rulebook. Does this means that the old 5th Ed. core FAQ is now null & void? (I would assume so).

If that is the case, then are there any rules that prevent using abilities that require LOS which are not psychic shooting attacks while embarked in a vehicle?

Because if not, then Anrakyr the Traveller just became awesome again if he's able to use Mind in the Machine while embarked on a CCBarge, now that the previous FAQ is gone.



Can anyone clarify?



EDIT: Lukas the Trickster + challenges = funny

Personally, I'd love for anrakyr to have his MITM on the move back, but I'm a little biased.
Best challenge model = Lone Wolf, Lukas, Crowe... win or lose, you still win.

azazel the cat wrote:I've never seen what generally happens when an edition updates before, so I've got a question:

I don't see any generalized FAQ for the core rulebook. Does this means that the old 5th Ed. core FAQ is now null & void? (I would assume so).

If that is the case, then are there any rules that prevent using abilities that require LOS which are not psychic shooting attacks while embarked in a vehicle?

Because if not, then Anrakyr the Traveller just became awesome again if he's able to use Mind in the Machine while embarked on a CCBarge, now that the previous FAQ is gone.



Can anyone clarify?



EDIT: Lukas the Trickster + challenges = funny

I second this clarification, from what I have read, I think he can now use his ability.

Yes, Anrakry is good again. It's an open topped transport and the book specifically states that open topped transports do not have specific fire points---instead all passengers in an open topped transport can fire, measuring range and line of sight from any point on the hull.

After reading the brb rules related sections and such, probably the biggest game changer that I noticed is that you cannot charge out of a vehicle if it does not have the assault rule when you disembarked that turn(read here units in rhinos, razorbacks, etc.)...just one item that I think had not been mentioned yet...Otherwise it does not seem to me that any dex. got it any worse/better than the others. It is going to require that players approach list building, deployment, and game tactics with a new rules set in mind. (fill in this space with rant about crybabies and naysayers)

Looking forward to seeing lotsa you gents at the NOVA open...safe travels

Anrakyr became even better as even if your enemy aircraft moved flat-out, you may still shoot with one of its weapon at normal BS.

Because if not, then Anrakyr the Traveller just became awesome again if he's able to use Mind in the Machine while embarked on a CCBarge, now that the previous FAQ is gone.

I can't see how the FAQ being gone changes anything at all. The rules that I've read state that you can draw line of sight from the vehicle for shooting attacks and psychic shooting attacks. You can't draw line of sight for other psychic powers for example, or special abilities like Mind in the Machine.

instead all passengers in an open topped transport can fire, measuring range and line of sight from any point on the hull.

Exactly. The passengers can fire. That means they can shoot. The text reads under the header 'passengers shooting from open-topped transports'. Unfortunately like I said special abilities like Mind in the Machine aren't shooting attacks or in fact attacks of any kind.

Drunkspleen wrote:

skarsol wrote:

Fayric wrote:Fleet is a huge improvement for them, if you like footdar.

Why do people keep saying this?

That math was based on 2d6 with a flat re-roll of the full roll, It does NOT take into account Fleet's ability to re-roll an individual dice within the 2d6.

Actually, I made that chart based on rerolling *one* die, which was the only rumor I had heard at the time. It actually would get more complex to figuring out 2 dice, including figuring out at what distance and existing dice rolls you *should* attempt rerolling both dice for.

As an example, needing 6" for assault alone if you get 4" + 1" you clearly reroll the 1". But if you get 3" + 2" do you reroll just the 2" or both? A reroll of the 2" gives you a 66% chance of reaching the target, of both gives you a 72% chance - now figure that math out for every combination of initial roll + distance before deciding rerolls.

(Note: I haven't finished catching up on the thread yet, but wanted to clear up that interpretation).

Baronyu wrote:You don't get an "improved chance to roll higher" when you get a reroll, you get "another chance to roll higher", the dice doesn't say "oh, hey, I rolled a 3 last time, I must roll a 4+ to please my master!"

At least in my case, they normally say "What!!! you want me to reroll? How you dare!!! I will roll 1 or 2..."

But that is the case, lets say the only moment when re-rolling a dice to charge is 100% good is when you got 1 on the first roll... At least you can measure exactly what distance you need, and only re-roll if needed (them, if you dont get high enough, it will not make any diference anyway).

One question: overwatch shoots happens even if the charge fail? And charging units keeps standing in place when charge fail? The awser is probably yeas to booth, but i really think that this time they would make it diferent...

Lets say i need a 7 to reach my enemy and only got 6, do my charging unit still move 6 toward the enemy? In 5th it made sense for charging units not moving (they knew they could not get there, so they just dont move), but in 6th, you roll because your unit will run an aleatory value, wich means that if they dont reach the enemy, they have tried to do it. Could even be more balanced with this overwatch snapfire (that in case of characters shooting, will always hit the most usefull model in the squad).

This edition in making me angry... If my group was not so "conservative", i would throw that ruleset away, and play that leaked rules from january...

Therion wrote:

Because if not, then Anrakyr the Traveller just became awesome again if he's able to use Mind in the Machine while embarked on a CCBarge, now that the previous FAQ is gone.

I can't see how the FAQ being gone changes anything at all. The rules that I've read state that you can draw line of sight from the vehicle for shooting attacks and psychic shooting attacks. You can't draw line of sight for other psychic powers for example, or special abilities like Mind in the Machine.

instead all passengers in an open topped transport can fire, measuring range and line of sight from any point on the hull.

Exactly. The passengers can fire. That means they can shoot. The text reads under the header 'passengers shooting from open-topped transports'. Unfortunately like I said special abilities like Mind in the Machine aren't shooting attacks or in fact attacks of any kind.

Is there a section in the new book that addresses non-psychic special abilities that require LOS? I'm sincerely asking as I've missed it if there was.



If not, given the material we currently have;

Mind in the Machine triggers at the shooting phase
It requires LOS
It requires a 3+
CCB is an open topped transport that its passengers can draw LOS from any part of the hull

My impression that would be that yes, he can use Mind in the Machine from the CCB.

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:
One question: overwatch shoots happens even if the charge fail? And charging units keeps standing in place when charge fail? The awser is probably yeas to booth, but i really think that this time they would make it diferent...

Lets say i need a 7 to reach my enemy and only got 6, do my charging unit still move 6 toward the enemy? In 5th it made sense for charging units not moving (they knew they could not get there, so they just dont move), but in 6th, you roll because your unit will run an aleatory value, wich means that if they dont reach the enemy, they have tried to do it. Could even be more balanced with this overwatch snapfire (that in case of characters shooting, will always hit the most usefull model in the squad).
.

you do overwatch.

You roll the dice.

If you can't make it you stand still. You never actually move if you won't atually get in contact.

AgeOfEgos wrote:

Therion wrote:

Because if not, then Anrakyr the Traveller just became awesome again if he's able to use Mind in the Machine while embarked on a CCBarge, now that the previous FAQ is gone.

I can't see how the FAQ being gone changes anything at all. The rules that I've read state that you can draw line of sight from the vehicle for shooting attacks and psychic shooting attacks. You can't draw line of sight for other psychic powers for example, or special abilities like Mind in the Machine.

instead all passengers in an open topped transport can fire, measuring range and line of sight from any point on the hull.

Exactly. The passengers can fire. That means they can shoot. The text reads under the header 'passengers shooting from open-topped transports'. Unfortunately like I said special abilities like Mind in the Machine aren't shooting attacks or in fact attacks of any kind.

Is there a section in the new book that addresses non-psychic special abilities that require LOS? I'm sincerely asking as I've missed it if there was.



If not, given the material we currently have;

Mind in the Machine triggers at the shooting phase
It requires LOS
It requires a 3+
CCB is an open topped transport that its passengers can draw LOS from any part of the hull

My impression that would be that yes, he can use Mind in the Machine from the CCB.

unfortunatly there is nothing in the book that allows (that i and other have found so far) the use of ANY special ability from inside, with the notable exception of psykers, this means (unless someone can find it) that FNP auras, kantor and other AOE abilities dont seem to b able to work, as most people may remember the 5th book told us how to measure from the hull for such things... there is no such rule (found so far) in the 6th book

if anyone can find this rule (for NON shooting/psykers) please post up a page number, otherwise its case closed

CCB is an open topped transport that its passengers can draw LOS from any part of the hull

You conveniently forgot to finish that sentence with 'for shooting attacks'. That's what the rules say. Under the header "Passengers shooting from Open-topped Transports" it says: Open-topped Transports do not have specific Fire Points. Instead, all passengers in an Open-topped Transport can fire, measuring range and line of sight from any point on the hull of the vehicle.

And yes, the new rules also ban abilities like Weaken Resolve from being used from inside transports because every psychic ability needs you to declare a target. For you to be able to declare a target you have to be able to see it, and you can only draw line of sight for shooting attacks and psychic shooting attacks from transports.

Therion wrote:

CCB is an open topped transport that its passengers can draw LOS from any part of the hull

You conveniently forgot to finish that sentence with 'for shooting attacks'. That's what the rules say.

And yes, the new rules also ban abilities like Weaken Resolve from being used from inside transports because every psychic ability needs you to declare a target. For you to be able to declare a target you have to be able to see it, and you can only draw line of sight for shooting attacks and psychic shooting attacks from transports.

It's not a psychic ability. It is an effect that requires Los and that is it, which the CCB provides.

If that were the case, you could not assault from the ccb either.

Regardless, if you want to further discuss it you should probably start a YMDC thread.

If that were the case, you could not assault from the ccb either.

What are you talking about now? You disembark from your transport in the movement phase and assaulting happens in a different phase altogether. Why would I want to discuss this subject? This case is closed.

Therion wrote:

If that were the case, you could not assault from the ccb either.

What are you talking about now? You disembark from your transport in the movement phase and assaulting happens in a different phase altogether. This case is closed.

Just a quick reminder, we are discussing a rule for a toy soldier game---and given your flag, I doubt we will ever enjoy a game together. So there is really no need to get uptight about it, this is effectively mental masturbation.

RE: Assault
The CCB is a chariot. Chariots may declare an assault in the assault phase. You can only declare an assault against a unit you can see.

Again though, in interest of the general discussion for others--you should probably move this to YMDC if you feel strongly about it--I think we've belabored this thread enough with it .

AgeOfEgos wrote:The CCB is a chariot. Chariots may declare an assault in the assault phase. You can only declare an assault against a unit you can see.

The vehicle can see just fine and can declare assaults. The passenger can't see anything though. Units embarked on transports don't have line of sight to anything. What they can do though is shoot through fire points, and in the case of open-topped vehicles shoot from any part of the vehicle's hull. Everyone else has already accepted this and moved on but you keep on raging against it. Funnily enough you keep telling me to move this to YMDC, while you're the one who started talking about this subject and still continue to discuss it in the very same thread.

Therion wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:The CCB is a chariot. Chariots may declare an assault in the assault phase. You can only declare an assault against a unit you can see.

The vehicle can see just fine and can declare assaults. The passenger can't see anything though. Units embarked on transports don't have line of sight to anything. What they can do though is shoot through fire points, and in the case of open-topped vehicles shoot from any part of the vehicle's hull. Everyone else has already accepted this and moved on but you keep on raging against it. Funnily enough you keep telling me to move this to YMDC, while you're the one who started talking about this subject and still continue to discuss it in the very same thread.

like i said before, i cant find any reference to how non shooting and aura powers work in a transport, if it is indeed not in the book... then they cannot be used when embarked, short of another FAQ to resolve the issue, but as already stated this should be in YMDC... and it is, its under "kantor etc"

Therion wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:The CCB is a chariot. Chariots may declare an assault in the assault phase. You can only declare an assault against a unit you can see.

The vehicle can see just fine and can declare assaults. The passenger can't see anything though. Units embarked on transports don't have line of sight to anything. What they can do though is shoot through fire points, and in the case of open-topped vehicles shoot from any part of the vehicle's hull. Everyone else has already accepted this and moved on but you keep on raging against it. Funnily enough you keep telling me to move this to YMDC, while you're the one who started talking about this subject and still continue to discuss it in the very same thread.

Fluff says that you can draw LOS: "characters prefer to survey the battlefield from a lofty perch" (p.82, the bolded part). Not 100% rules ofc, but...oh well.

Sigvatr wrote:

Therion wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:The CCB is a chariot. Chariots may declare an assault in the assault phase. You can only declare an assault against a unit you can see.

The vehicle can see just fine and can declare assaults. The passenger can't see anything though. Units embarked on transports don't have line of sight to anything. What they can do though is shoot through fire points, and in the case of open-topped vehicles shoot from any part of the vehicle's hull. Everyone else has already accepted this and moved on but you keep on raging against it. Funnily enough you keep telling me to move this to YMDC, while you're the one who started talking about this subject and still continue to discuss it in the very same thread.

Fluff says that you can draw LOS: "characters prefer to survey the battlefield from a lofty perch" (p.82, the bolded part). Not 100% rules ofc, but...oh well.

hehehe i got it dont worry if no one else does

here is the YMDC link lads

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/458691.page

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:

Baronyu wrote:You don't get an "improved chance to roll higher" when you get a reroll, you get "another chance to roll higher", the dice doesn't say "oh, hey, I rolled a 3 last time, I must roll a 4+ to please my master!"

At least in my case, they normally say "What!!! you want me to reroll? How you dare!!! I will roll 1 or 2..."

But that is the case, lets say the only moment when re-rolling a dice to charge is 100% good is when you got 1 on the first roll... At least you can measure exactly what distance you need, and only re-roll if needed (them, if you dont get high enough, it will not make any diference anyway).

One question: overwatch shoots happens even if the charge fail? And charging units keeps standing in place when charge fail? The awser is probably yeas to booth, but i really think that this time they would make it diferent...

Lets say i need a 7 to reach my enemy and only got 6, do my charging unit still move 6 toward the enemy? In 5th it made sense for charging units not moving (they knew they could not get there, so they just dont move), but in 6th, you roll because your unit will run an aleatory value, wich means that if they dont reach the enemy, they have tried to do it. Could even be more balanced with this overwatch snapfire (that in case of characters shooting, will always hit the most usefull model in the squad).

This edition in making me angry... If my group was not so "conservative", i would throw that ruleset away, and play that leaked rules from january...

A: The rules for Precision Shot specifically state that it can't be used with Snapfire, Blast weapons, or attacks that don't need to roll to hit. Characters can't remove specific models for hitting with overwatch.

B: You declare the assault, resolve overwatch, and then determine necessary charge range. So when you roll for charge, you're not rolling to move, you're trying to beat a number. So you can easily suss which dice you want to reroll with fleet. (If you need a 7 to reach the enemy, and you rolled a 1 and a 5, you can just reroll the 1. If you need a 9 and rolled two 3s, better to reroll both.)

C: Everybody gets a 3" pile in on their initiative step. That essentially means that every attacker except the closest model gets 3" extra charge range. Defenders don't get the 6" engagement move from 4th edition, so flanking assaults will actually get fewer defenders involved who can attack back. Since the pile in doesn't occur until their initiative step, positioning your special melee weapons such as Power Fists behind your normals protects them until they get to attack.

Also, I think Defensive Grenades will be a popular choice for assault troops that can take them. If the charge starts within 8", the unit gets a cover save bonus.

I would like to apologize for the rules debate I apparently started in this thread. I thought it was just a simple question, until people who do not yet have the book began trying to answer it.

I humbly withdraw the question, and will ask it elsewhere.

Jidmah wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:So, if a Sergeant challenges a Nob Squad, which Nob fights?

The ork player picks one. Explicitly covered in the rules.

The joke was missed, I am sad. :(

So is it you get 2 hq, 3 elite, fast, heavy and 6 troop plus an allied detachment. Thus being 3 hq, 4 e, fa, hvy and 8 troops? I ask this because on pg 110 is says for bigger games "this gives you access up to six choices each from elites, fast attacks and heavy support, up to four HQchoices, an additional allied detachment and an additional fortification". Anyone else pick up on this or am i just wrong on this entirely.

I think the Detachments are completely seperate from the extra FoC. It's like in Fantasy, where you can normally only have 3 Special and 2 Rare choices that are identical to each other, but in 'Grand Armies', of over 3000 points, you can have more. In less than 2000 point armies, you have the normal FoC, plus Allies. In 2000 point and up armies, you have doubled FoC, plus Detachments.

so wait you cant use Weaken Resolve from inside a transport (i thought it was a witchfire power, thus giving the deny the witch ability as all maledictions are?)

So in 1999 point games i can field a total of 3 hqs (2 from primary and 1 from an allied detachment). In2000 pts 6 hqs (4 from two primary and 1 additional from the two allied detatchments? Do i have this right?

Not certain about whether the Allies double at 2000 or not, but as far as I understand it, that's the gist of it.

can Invulnerable saves be taken against perils of the warp?

under the heading invulnerable save it says "suffers any wound"

under perils it says "suffers 1 wound with no saves of any kind allowed"

i thought invulnerable always allowed you to make saves against things you normally could not?

confused......

Not even invulnerable saves can be taken against perils.