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What's your take on this issue?

Do you think the Ecclesiarch is as popular as Pope Francis?

I don't think most Imperial citizens know about the High Lords.

To them they have their local superiors through to the planetary governor or equivalent.

Above that is the Emprah, as everything is done in his name.

Well, the High Lords don't blink twice about civilizations getting wiped from existence, but I'm pretty sure any talk against the high lords, the Ecclesiarchy, etc is heresy and leads to summary execution. I mean, they are probably taught that they are of the highest holiness, aside from Emps, of course, but after seeing a bunch of 'heretics' getting burned that were their neighbors might open their eyes a little.

The scale is so massive that it is kind of difficult to compare it to our world. For one, you need to remember that there is not galaxy-wide news broadcasts. To the average Imperial citizen, Terra, the Ecclesiarch and the High Lords are more or less things of legend rather than something you discuss or get news from.

100 % approval rate - or else.

The High Lords are purposefully secretive. I'd doubt most Imperial civilians know of their existence, let alone know enough about them to formulate an opinion. Even clergy of the Ecclesiarchy is probably blind to the High Lords, preaching only the name of the Emperor.

As near as I can determine, in the old feudal world the aristocracy wasn't just a higher or better status, the group-think was that these guys were superior in intellect and virtue , and this despite common sense and experience.

--- And near as I can tell , things haven't changed much. Why does a President of the United States need millions of dollars worth of security ? Sure, he is at greater risk than a waitress , but then he's just as expendable as a waitress too. Why pay a rock star for a song he sang 40 years ago ? you don't pay a plumber for fixing your toilet 40 years ago, or if you did you would deeply resent it. All this special-ness seems to be built on a very vague notion of special-ness.
The feudal world had special bloodlines and special genealogies that somehow proved special-ness. We have the myth of the self-made man, never mind that common sense and experience should indicate to you that the self-made man idea is crap.

And then throw in -- certainly in the case of the High Lords of Terra --- actual physical remoteness , and even the most cynical critic thinks these guys are special, irrespective of whether they are 500 light years away, or on the cover every week of The National Enquirer .

 Squidmanlolz wrote:
The High Lords are purposefully secretive. I'd doubt most Imperial civilians know of their existence, let alone know enough about them to formulate an opinion. Even clergy of the Ecclesiarchy is probably blind to the High Lords, preaching only the name of the Emperor.

Some High Lords could be well known too, in a legendary sense. A Chapter Master serving as representative for the Adeptus Astartes is probably a legendary figure in his own right, as some others could be.

What they actually do is probably pretty much beyond the understanding of anyone except the highest levels of the Administratum, ofc. Any "regular" decrees they give will be filtered down through so many levels of subordinates that the guys it affects won't know where it came from anyway.

Spetulhu wrote:

 Squidmanlolz wrote:
The High Lords are purposefully secretive. I'd doubt most Imperial civilians know of their existence, let alone know enough about them to formulate an opinion. Even clergy of the Ecclesiarchy is probably blind to the High Lords, preaching only the name of the Emperor.

Some High Lords could be well known too, in a legendary sense. A Chapter Master serving as representative for the Adeptus Astartes is probably a legendary figure in his own right, as some others could be.

What they actually do is probably pretty much beyond the understanding of anyone except the highest levels of the Administratum, ofc. Any "regular" decrees they give will be filtered down through so many levels of subordinates that the guys it affects won't know where it came from anyway.

While that's true, the average Imperial Citizen will have never heard of that Chapter Master... after all, that Space Marine's legendary deeds took place in Hab-Worker #567890-DD-6086's great-great-great-great grandfather's childhood on a planet that the Hab-worker has never heard of, against a foe he cannot even imagine, let alone pronounce the foul, Xenos name of.

Not very.

Warlords of the Dark Millennium: Typhus wrote:The Zombie Plague is a Warp-disease, and it can only infect those who have no hope or faith in their hearts. In the uncaring grind of Imperial life, the vast majority of the populace can be counted amongst that number.

Codex Khorne Daemonkin wrote:The Chaos Space Marines of the Daemonkin are no more forgiving of their Cultist followers than is Khorne himself. As such, they think nothing of driving thousands of Cultists to their deaths, simply to choke the guns of the foe. Many Chaos Lords will even butcher their Cultist underlings as blood sacrifices to Khorne, slaughtering them mercilessly when better offerings cannot be found. For all this, there is no shortage of Khornate bloodcults hidden throughout the Imperium, for even the most desperate grasp for power is better than the hopeless grind of Imperial servitude.

Outside of Terra and some closeby system I doubt they have any idea who the High Lords are.

To your average citizen the symbol of Imperial authority are the Governor, Arbites, Ecclesiearchy, and Administratum.

I'm with the "High who of where?" interpretation. To try to come up with a real life equivalent, how many of you can name the US Secretary of Agriculture? I can't and I live in freaking Washington, DC, and I'm a reporter for feth's sake. (Obviously not covering agriculture policy). Asking a regular Imperial citizen to name a High Lord of Terra is a bit like asking a real-life citizen to name a cabinet secretary -- except in this case the Secretary of Agriculture lives several years of travel time away and has never heard of the planet you live on, let alone visited it.

Spetulhu wrote:
A Chapter Master serving as representative for the Adeptus Astartes is probably a legendary figure in his own right, as some others could be.

There are no representatives of the Astartes among the High Lords, because nobody cares about the Adeptus Astartes.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/High_Lords_of_Terra

Its less that nobody cares about the Adeptus Astartes and more that the Adeptus Astartes can't organise themselves cohesively enough to be representable by a single individual. :p

But yes, canonically, the identities of the High Lords are actually a complete secret. A somewhat open secret in the case of the Ecclesiarch and the Fabricator General, but a secret none the less.

I wonder if it is known, in-universe, that the Ecclesiarch is also a High Lord? That is, obviously everyone else at the Big Table knows, but outside of that immediate circle or two of people who associate with the High Lords, is that common knowledge?

Same with the Fabricator-General. If you don't have dealings with the AdMech at that (or near to that) level, would you know what the Fabricator-General is, and that he/she is also a High Lord?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:
A Chapter Master serving as representative for the Adeptus Astartes is probably a legendary figure in his own right, as some others could be.

There are no representatives of the Astartes among the High Lords, because nobody cares about the Adeptus Astartes.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/High_Lords_of_Terra

Grey Knight Grand Masters do occasionally act as the Inquisitorial representative, actually.

But that's a representative of the Inquisition, not the Astartes.

 Psienesis wrote:
I wonder if it is known, in-universe, that the Ecclesiarch is also a High Lord? That is, obviously everyone else at the Big Table knows, but outside of that immediate circle or two of people who associate with the High Lords, is that common knowledge?

Same with the Fabricator-General. If you don't have dealings with the AdMech at that (or near to that) level, would you know what the Fabricator-General is, and that he/she is also a High Lord?

The Imperium is a theocracy. Even people who have no concept of something like a 'high lord' will probably assume that the Ecclesiarch is in charge, just below the Emperor, because he's the freaking Voice of God.

There are probably quite a few people who assume that the Adeptus Terra are a division of the Adeptus Ministorum.

And there are probably folks from more secular worlds, where the Imperial Faith is mostly represented by tame chaplains assigned to various institutions, who think the Ecclesiarchy is a branch of the Ministorum.
And folks on Forge Worlds who get the Fabricator-General confused with the Omnissiah/Emperor.
And folks on Astartes homeworlds who don't realize there's an overarching structure to the Imperium beyond "our chapter is descended from this other chapter."
And folks on planets like Cadia and Krieg who assume any Imperial agency they hear about is just another office of the Departmento Munitorum.
And folks on feudal worlds who think "the Imperium" is just a big mess of trigger-happy sky gods.
And folks on death worlds who are all like "feth you I have no time for this question can't you see that plant is eating my leg RIGHT NOW?"

Maximus Bitch wrote:
What's your take on this issue?

Do you think the Ecclesiarch is as popular as Pope Francis?

Who are they to judge?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:
A Chapter Master serving as representative for the Adeptus Astartes is probably a legendary figure in his own right, as some others could be.

There are no representatives of the Astartes among the High Lords, because nobody cares about the Adeptus Astartes.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/High_Lords_of_Terra

Actually, the current Imperial government was set up by the Astartes, and their absence from the HLoT is by design.

The question of the OP can not be answered, because we have no way of polling the people of the Imperium. Not in RL because it is fiction and no author has wrote about this, and neither in-universe because a 100% approval rating is mandatory in the Imperium. Complaining about authorities (who are the representatives of the God-Emperor) is punishable by death, and worse, excommunication.
Also, the HLoT are so way high up most Imperial citizens are likely almost no knowledge of them. They will be more concerned with their local governments and planetary governor.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Actually, the current Imperial government was set up by the Astartes

If by astartes, you mean “a Primarch that was not an Astartes and no Astartes was ever part of them”, then yes . And apparently it was mostly the successor of the Council of Terra, established by the Emperor, which had already excluded astartes from it. So, yeah, nobody cares about the astartes and nobody wants them in the High Lord .

We all know who really runs things.

646.M32
Reunited
Agnathio, Chapter Master of the Ultramarines, unites over
fifty leaders from other Chapters of Space Marines and
arrives upon Terra. Such a show of power and faith puts an
end to the squabbling for the contentious seats of the High
Lords of Terra that has consumed the differing factions
since the Beheading. In locked council with the mightiest
of Mankind's warriors, such matters were quickly sorted.
None know exactly what was done or said, but when the
Space Marines departed back to their far-scattered missions,
there once again sat twelve High lords of Terra. If there
was further dissension, none dared speak it aloud.

" How popular are the High Lords of Terra with the people of the Imperium? "

The question seems to assume a knowledge.

" Do you think the Ecclesiarch is as popular as Pope Francis? "

yep, definitely assumes a knowledge.

" To try to come up with a real life equivalent, how many of you can name the US Secretary of Agriculture? "

Good point , and as usual with this one, logical, clear, and well-written.
Except, and in keeping with the question ;
If the US Secretary of Agriculture invited you to dinner, even if you couldn't say who he was beforehand , even if you had no particular interest in agricultural matters, and only learned of his identity and resume after the invitation, my guess is most people would fall all over themselves with fawning, and that's in the secular , free-thinking, egalitarian United States, not an ultra-authoritarian theocratic state where the wrong word can get you shot.

How popular are they ? Popular enough to stay in power , even without necessarily having to shoot people.

 KesaAnna wrote:
" How popular are the High Lords of Terra with the people of the Imperium? "

The question seems to assume a knowledge.

" Do you think the Ecclesiarch is as popular as Pope Francis? "

yep, definitely assumes a knowledge.

" To try to come up with a real life equivalent, how many of you can name the US Secretary of Agriculture? "

Good point , and as usual with this one, logical, clear, and well-written.
Except, and in keeping with the question ;
If the US Secretary of Agriculture invited you to dinner, even if you couldn't say who he was beforehand , even if you had no particular interest in agricultural matters, and only learned of his identity and resume after the invitation, my guess is most people would fall all over themselves with fawning, and that's in the secular , free-thinking, egalitarian United States, not an ultra-authoritarian theocratic state where the wrong word can get you shot.

How popular are they ? Popular enough to stay in power , even without necessarily having to shoot people.

Your opinion of most people is awful. I hope you're wrong

Add me to the list that thinks most Imperium citizens don't know who they are. For most, they're far away authority figures that represent the Imperium in an abstract sense, if they've heard of them at all. Therefore, people's opinion of them would tend to be whatever their opinion of the Imperium and the Emperor as a whole is. If you hate the Imperium, you're gonna hate the High Lords. If you like the Imperium as a whole, you'll like the High Lords, even if you're not too fond of this or that local official.

Even on Terra and in nearby systems, the High Lords live so far removed from the average joe that they're pretty much an abstract concept. These guys aren't making campaign speeches on TV. They hand down an order, that gets passed through dozens of layers of leadership and middlemen before you ever see it. That remoteness itself has to inspire some awe in the general population. It's like Emperor Hirohito during WWII in Japan. School kids would go to an assembly hall and there would be a set of curtains. The school officials would pull back the curtains and there'd be a door. The school officials told the kids that behind the door was a picture of the Emperor. They didn't open the door, because the Emperor was too holy for the plebes to look at. That's the level of interaction the High Lords have with the general public.