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carmachu wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:I thought the same until I moved here and have encountered several freak show Witch Hunters armies.

Weird. Because I have yet to encounter a single actual player that uses any freakshow stuff. I hear on the internet a few, But the couple sister players I know played with, SOB's.....long time players that have played them through several incarnations from 2nd ed or so and up.....

I've got a freakshow inq army...




I'm hoping these guys become more than a nice display.

Maybe an option for different types of ammo for the exorcist? Some large blast templates in the sisters army would be nice....

Also did i read something about assassins being ousted? My Vindicares are the cornerstone of punsihment and my fav way to kill multi-hundred point HQs

Creeping Dementia wrote:
I seems a bit odd they would give a new vehicle (the Repressor) without any new models at this point.

When the SM codex that introduced Drop pods came out, plastic drop pods were a long long ways off. People used the Forgeworld model.

There is a Forgeworld Repressor model, so history might be repeating it's self.

xSoulgrinderx wrote:Maybe an option for different types of ammo for the exorcist? Some large blast templates in the sisters army would be nice....

Also did i read something about assassins being ousted? My Vindicares are the cornerstone of punsihment and my fav way to kill multi-hundred point HQs

Really? I've played against Vindicares with Necrons, and I've seen them used against Tyranids, they never seemed that effective. Perhaps it was the player.

KestrelM1 wrote:You do know that they're basically the best transport hunting Heavy Support slot in the game, right? Long Fangs and Vendettas WISH they were AP1.

You're joking right? Tee hee ha ha joking? Cause that's really funny. A vehicle that can't control the number of shots it fires per turn and only has ONE weapon mount is the best in the game?

Right.

Vendettas, even with their crappy BS3, eat this tank alive with twin linking and multiple weapon pods. Every time.

MadCowCrazy wrote:
As for the Exorcist I would hope it got different missiles similar to the Whirlwind. D6 S8 Ap1, D3 S5 AP4 Large Blast, D3 S4 AP5 Large Blast, Ignore cover. This would make it a scary Whirlwind, maybe a bit OP but Sisters dont have much long range anti infantry.

I like that. I imagine they will limit it to 2 though. Personally, I think the D6 S8 AP1 and the D3 S4 AP5 Blast Ignore Cover would be the ones they would go to (incendiary just fits to SOB).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Redbeard wrote:
I've got a freakshow inq army...

I'm hoping these guys become more than a nice display.

Looks like a GK army to me. Why'd you buy so many counts-as DKs?

:(

Marthike wrote:

Penitent Engines scout? you serious?

Are you just trying to make sisters overpowered? I hope you never make an codex LOL

Can you imagine 3 Penitent Engines with scout? That is almost as bad as first turn assualt

if your serious: cuz its totally legit for 3 dredknights but not 3 penitent engines.

if your joking: disregard my comment.

Moopy wrote:Vendettas, even with their crappy BS3, eat this tank alive with twin linking and multiple weapon pods. Every time.

Against av11, Vendetta gets 1.19 useful hits (no cover, immob or better). Exorcist gets 0.91. Not that much better.

Scarey Nerd wrote:

kenzosan wrote:i dont understand how a wd codex and new models can happen. a hold over codex and new models?... reality no longer makes sense.
im happy and sad and confused. how do they have time to make models and a wd codex but not a normal codex?

They don't. They have time to make a WD codex, then the real one and the models will probably hit in a year and a half, maybe 2.

but thats what i mean. theres rumors of new models but nothing about a codex then. i mean why release a wd dex, have models made, and then in a few months release a real codex just for new models? why not just wait? i mean they waited this long already.

kenzosan wrote:but thats what i mean. theres rumors of new models but nothing about a codex then. i mean why release a wd dex, have models made, and then in a few months release a real codex just for new models? why not just wait? i mean they waited this long already.

To eliminate allies and update the last codex that had 'old wargear' to the new standards.

pretre wrote:
To eliminate allies and update the last codex that had 'old wargear' to the new standards.

They could do that with an FAQ liek they did with Dark Angels and Black Templars. Its not necessary to release a codex over two WD's to do it. Updating costs and removing allies takes less than a page of material.

kenzosan wrote:

Scarey Nerd wrote:

kenzosan wrote:i dont understand how a wd codex and new models can happen. a hold over codex and new models?... reality no longer makes sense.
im happy and sad and confused. how do they have time to make models and a wd codex but not a normal codex?

They don't. They have time to make a WD codex, then the real one and the models will probably hit in a year and a half, maybe 2.

but thats what i mean. theres rumors of new models but nothing about a codex then. i mean why release a wd dex, have models made, and then in a few months release a real codex just for new models? why not just wait? i mean they waited this long already.

Because it would be the first time in a long time that a WD had decent content. This would drive up their WD sales for 2 months, boosting their currently languishing cash flow. Then they release models and get even more money.

Scarey Nerd wrote:Because it would be the first time in a long time that a WD had decent content. This would drive up their WD sales for 2 months, boosting their currently languishing cash flow. Then they release models and get even more money.

Yep, this exactly. They are a business, after all.

Not to mention C: WH isn't as easy to update via FAQ as DA or BT were, in my opinion. It is older and significantly smaller. If they just FAQ'd out the inquisition and allies and didn't replace anything that would kind of bone a lot of folks.

Redbeard wrote:

I've got a freakshow inq army...




I'm hoping these guys become more than a nice display.

HOLY FK! THATS AWESOME! I really thought the penitent engines sucked but seeing that is just terryifing!

Pouncey wrote:
Wait, what?

Heavy bolters need 6s to glance a Penitent Engine from the front or side.

Edit: Also, a 5 damage roll on a glancing hit on an open-topped vehicle squadron would kill too, due to the vehicle squadron rules regarding immobilized results. The penetrating hits would require a mere 3+ to wreck or implode an open-topped vehicle squadron as well, given the +1 result for open-topped vehicles and, again, the vehicle squadron rules regarding immobilized results.

Was this in a previous edition?

Honestly I don't remember what edition it was, but I haven't pulled the 3 penitent's out since. And it has been a LONG while. But yeah, I know immob's take out squadrons too, but I remember that 2 of them blew up... it MUST have been a previous edition because they wouldn't be able to blow up otherwise... aw crap, my memory is failing me! ugg...

pretre wrote:

Moopy wrote:Vendettas, even with their crappy BS3, eat this tank alive with twin linking and multiple weapon pods. Every time.

Against av11, Vendetta gets 1.19 useful hits (no cover, immob or better). Exorcist gets 0.91. Not that much better.

How are you factoring in the 3 guaranteed shots with the Vendetta vs the unknown quanity of shots on the Ex?

Also, how are you factoring in the usefullness of each vehicle if it loses 1 weapons system?

Moopy wrote:
How are you factoring in the 3 guaranteed shots with the Vendetta vs the unknown quanity of shots on the Ex?

3.5 shots from the Exorcist on average.

Also, how are you factoring in the usefullness of each vehicle if it loses 1 weapons system?

Nope. I'm also not factoring in LOS, points cost, Force Org Slot, ability to hide behind terrain, transport capacity, defensive AV and the rest of the codex. Just what would happen if you shot that vehicle at an AV11 hull.

Er...other than the potential codex any other actual rumors at this point?

I think that someone should post a summary of the real facts in these 23 pages of junk. That way people can debate over the facts and not guess at what might be real/fake and spend 23 pages talking about it.

Summary plox!

The summary is on page 22, pretty much.

What I want from the new list is simple: point reductions on Seraphim, Repentia, and Engines. They are all far too expensive for what they do. Possibly on Dominion weapons, too, so we might take something that's not Sisters/Celestians. Changes on the Heavy slots. There needs to be a reason to take things that are not Exorcists, and right now there isn't.

Right now, most competitive armies consist of either all the Immolators you can spam, or Cannoness/Celestians/Sisters/Exorcists with transports. Maybe a Seraphim unit, but god they are so expensive. Being able to add Dominions or Retributors without feeling dumb would be nice.

Thanks Grog.

kenzosan wrote:but thats what i mean. theres rumors of new models but nothing about a codex then. i mean why release a wd dex, have models made, and then in a few months release a real codex just for new models? why not just wait? i mean they waited this long already.

So when 6th edition comes out and people complain that Sisters haven't been updated since 3rd edition, GW can point to the August and September 2011 issues of White Dwarf and claim otherwise.

MadCowCrazy wrote:

As for the Exorcist I would hope it got different missiles similar to the Whirlwind. D6 S8 Ap1, D3 S5 AP4 Large Blast, D3 S4 AP5 Large Blast, Ignore cover. This would make it a scary Whirlwind, maybe a bit OP but Sisters dont have much long range anti infantry.

Back when the current book was playtested, they had an idea of 2 different missles being shot- the first as you see, the second, was almost exactly that- except it was a D6 S5 or S4, Ap4 or AP5 large blasts ignoring cover.....it was deemed a bit over powered, espically vs IG, ork, DE....basically anything non-powerarmor.

I hope the exorcist still shoots D6 S8 AP1 missiles. That's one of the best parts of the codex.

pretre wrote:

Moopy wrote:
How are you factoring in the 3 guaranteed shots with the Vendetta vs the unknown quanity of shots on the Ex?

3.5 shots from the Exorcist on average.

Also, how are you factoring in the usefullness of each vehicle if it loses 1 weapons system?

Nope. I'm also not factoring in LOS, points cost, Force Org Slot, ability to hide behind terrain, transport capacity, defensive AV and the rest of the codex. Just what would happen if you shot that vehicle at an AV11 hull.

And that's where I think the scales tip. Average is not as dependable as guaranteed fixed number. Combine that will multiple weapon systems + the ability to transport troops on the rounds it can't fire, and the rediculously low cost of the vehicle (allowing for multiples) leaves the Vendetta a better choice.

Thank you for breaking down the math though- good to see real numbers.

Did anyone really think the exorcist is the better than a Vendetta?

Moopy wrote:And that's where I think the scales tip. Average is not as dependable as guaranteed fixed number. Combine that will multiple weapon systems + the ability to transport troops on the rounds it can't fire, and the rediculously low cost of the vehicle (allowing for multiples) leaves the Vendetta a better choice.

I don't think anyone would argue that a vendetta isn't a ridiculously good value. Unfortunately, Sisters don't have access to one. That being said, vendettas can't hide. If they are moving flat-out, they aren't shooting. Exorcists can hide behind terrain or even other vehicles very easily. Vendettas are 5 points cheaper, etc so on.

If Exos could squadron or were 30 points cheaper, it might be an argument, but as it is, Vendettas are clearly better. Just not necessarily against AV11.

The Grog wrote: Maybe a Seraphim unit, but god they are so expensive. would be nice.

I've never found them to be so. My squads top out at 150 points to be able to put 2 twin-linked melta shots into someone's back armor and then charge someone (not to kill but tie up for the rest of the game) blowing faith to keep them alive.

Even if they get torn apart before assaulting, if you can't find a vehicle worth at least 150 pts to blow up in today's game, then you're probably playing a frufru list someone put together "for fluff reasons" and don't need to worry about cost/return analysis anyways.


Example: Game 2 days ago, 150 pt. 5-man serephim squad DS, blows a Land Raider, ties up 6 TH/SS termies for the rest of the game. cost 150 points and 3 faith


One of the problems i have with the people on this thread whining so much about points costs is that everything but our tanks (at least the things commonly taken), have faith, which means most of you guys don't seem to be factoring that our counter assault units currently have 3++ with canoness at 2++, rending in cc, and the ability to become fearless+. Personally, the proper application of faith factors heavily into whether something is worth points costs.

androcles138 wrote:
Example: Game 2 days ago, 150 pt. 5-man serephim squad DS, blows a Land Raider, ties up 6 TH/SS termies for the rest of the game. cost 150 points and 3 faith

One of the problems i have with the people on this thread whining so much about points costs is that everything but our tanks (at least the things commonly taken), have faith, which means most of you guys don't seem to be factoring that our counter assault units currently have 3++ with canoness at 2++, rending in cc, and the ability to become fearless+. Personally, the proper application of faith factors heavily into whether something is worth points costs.

Faith rolls can be failed howevr and are never a sure thing. The Seraphim thing was a bad example though as in order to blow up a land raider you would need to drop within 3 inches of the Landraider with inferno pistols. More than that and you are not even wrecking the Land Raider as inferno pistols are AP2 and have a 6" range. Its very risky to attempt with scatter dice being what they are and the size of the Land Raider. It was a ballsy move and I applaud the guts along with the luck. its not soemthing I woudl normally attempt. I'd rather drive 12" and pile out a Celestian squad of 5 with 2 meltas to pop the Land Raider. Its generally safer and the guns are more apt to wreck the vehicle.

true, I guess a lot of it is that i play the sisters a lot different than other people