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I wasn't joking...

Omegus wrote:I wasn't joking...

Considering your other 'interesting' theories on other things, I held this to be a distinct possibility. Oh well, so much for common ground.

With the demise of the Inquisitor and return of the confessor, i don't care how much my FLGS wants wysiwig, my fething confessor is just going to use the inquisitor model i so-lovingly crafted. I'll just tell 'em "too bad, he left his goofy pope hat at home".

A pox upon thee GW, for having us put hours and hours into painstakingly crafted minis, only to have them rendered unusable.

*shakes fist*

androcles138 wrote:With the demise of the Inquisitor and return of the confessor, i don't care how much my FLGS wants wysiwig, my fething confessor is just going to use the inquisitor model i so-lovingly crafted. I'll just tell 'em "too bad, he left his goofy pope hat at home".

A pox upon thee GW, for having us put hours and hours into painstakingly crafted minis, only to have them rendered unusable.

*shakes fist*

As long as your 'Confessor' as the appropriate wargear, I don't imagine anyone will care. Confessors don't need pope hats. Popes do. Kyrinov just happens to like them.

I just had the crazy notion that SOB might get stormravens.

I must be getting delussional

Storm Ravens? But.. but.. Black Library has them zipping around in Valkyries!

Valks and Vendettas are much more appropriate.

I would gak bricks if I got Vendettas for my fast attack slot. That would be so amazing.

Yeah that would be cool too SOB do need some more units and draft ins from other armies i'm sure wouldn't go a miss especially if they cover some of the weeknesses of the dex.

pretre wrote:Not sure I get you here. By that line of reasoning, we should never gauge the strength of a previous codex until it is replaced... Afterall, how do we know how strong a codex is until it is used in every edition that it will be legal in. Under this premise, was the Necron Codex strong? It was pretty decent in 3rd and 4th and pretty poor in 5th, do we average that to 'okay'?

And I'm not sure Fleet vs Run is really Eldar's weakness at this point.

No, my point is that the new edition is probably just around the corner. Which means that the September 2011 analysis of the Codex will be obsolete in less than a year (hmm... just realized - September '11; creepy). And it's not going to get replaced until 2013 at the earliest (and quite likely not even then).

And yes, the Eldar have lots of problems due to 5th edition being 5th edition. 'Run' is just the simplest one to point to.

pretre wrote:Considering your other 'interesting' theories on other things, I held this to be a distinct possibility. Oh well, so much for common ground.

The only common ground we're likely to share is one that holds both your bloodied corpse and my iron-shod jackboots!

Melissia wrote:Least I hope they will anyway. Hopefully it won't be something stupid like having them faithfully being faithful while oufaithing the most faithfuls of any faith's faithing faithfuls who are themselves so faithful that they start new faiths which themselves are faithful to them.

Or some other stupid crap. BA and SW already suffered through this.

Maybe if Ward or Kelly does the actual book, but I was under the impression this WD 'Dex is being written by Cruddace. That means one of two things:

1. We get the Tyranid treatment. (a.k.a. the "Codex: Go buy Trygons and Hive Guard!" treatment) All our existing units become generic and flavorless, while all these new units (only 2 of which get actual models...) are better than everything you own for less points.

2. We get the IG treatment. (a.k.a. the "Codex: You can't have enough Leman Russes! treatment) Where we can suddenly field Exorcist squadrons, squadrons of a few new tanks (which look suspiciously like variants of existing tanks...) and sister squads can go up to 50.

Frankly, I hope it's the second.

streamdragon wrote:Maybe if Ward or Kelly does the actual book, but I was under the impression this WD 'Dex is being written by Cruddace. That means one of two things:

1. We get the Tyranid treatment. (a.k.a. the "Codex: Go buy Trygons and Hive Guard!" treatment) All our existing units become generic and flavorless, while all these new units (only 2 of which get actual models...) are better than everything you own for less points.

2. We get the IG treatment. (a.k.a. the "Codex: You can't have enough Leman Russes! treatment) Where we can suddenly field Exorcist squadrons, squadrons of a few new tanks (which look suspiciously like variants of existing tanks...) and sister squads can go up to 50.

Frankly, I hope it's the second.

im rolling with the first option since sisters are set up like marines in that the normal sister of battle unit could fit into heavy, fast, and troop. but hey, i hope im wrong.

streamdragon wrote:squadrons of a few new tanks (which look suspiciously like variants of existing tanks...)

I think that this, at least, can be safely ruled out. After all, this is only a WD 'dex.

gorgon wrote:

Creeping Dementia wrote:Has anyone heard anything about the Book of St. Lucius yet? Seems to be a major factor of the current army that hasn't been adressed yet.

I think you can safely say it's going to get reined in quite a bit.

Quite a bit? So what, they have to make an Ld check every turn to see if they get stubborn? How exactly do you "reign in" the BoSL? It's no overpowered as it is. Frankly it should just be part of the base rules of the Sisters units anyway.

ceorron wrote:Yeah that would be cool too SOB do need some more units and draft ins from other armies i'm sure wouldn't go a miss especially if they cover some of the weeknesses of the dex.

A weakness like not having even a third of the number of choices it should have?

Not likely to happen. I doubt we'll get any new models at all, they'll probably save them for the real codex.

Melissia wrote:

gorgon wrote:

Creeping Dementia wrote:Has anyone heard anything about the Book of St. Lucius yet? Seems to be a major factor of the current army that hasn't been adressed yet.

I think you can safely say it's going to get reined in quite a bit.

Quite a bit? So what, they have to make an Ld check every turn to see if they get stubborn? How exactly do you "reign in" the BoSL? It's no overpowered as it is. Frankly it should just be part of the base rules of the Sisters units anyway.

Hardly the most broken thing in the game, but it is quite good and seen in basically every single Sisters army. Wargear like that tends to get the nerf bat. That's just how it is.

And no, I don't think Sisters should get Stubborn as a basic rule.

gorgon wrote:

Melissia wrote:

gorgon wrote:

Creeping Dementia wrote:Has anyone heard anything about the Book of St. Lucius yet? Seems to be a major factor of the current army that hasn't been adressed yet.

I think you can safely say it's going to get reined in quite a bit.

Quite a bit? So what, they have to make an Ld check every turn to see if they get stubborn? How exactly do you "reign in" the BoSL? It's no overpowered as it is. Frankly it should just be part of the base rules of the Sisters units anyway.

Hardly the most broken thing in the game, but it is quite good and seen in basically every single Sisters army. Wargear like that tends to get the nerf bat. That's just how it is.

And no, I don't think Sisters should get Stubborn as a basic rule.

It is in 'basically every single Sisters army' because they run at the drop of the hat... we're talking about an army that, due to lack of wargear options, run due to being charged by guard... sure... they have 3+ armor, but if you want to look at it fluff-wise: Sisters are fanatically headstrong. They don't run. In fact, I personally think they should be fearless, but I would absolutely hate that in the tabletop (and would prefer stubborn).... But if *I* were translating fluff from the books/fluff to the game, they'd have fearless.

The book may be treated the same way Frag/Krak genades were treated in the last C:SM dex;
The Sister Superior upgrade comes with the BoSL standard. Celestians and Canoness get them standard.

People that think changing faith, the book, or other "little" or "OP" things makes sense don't seem to understand how central they are to the army not sucking [mod edit]. I can't imagine what they're going to do to make up for the gak-storm of (hopefully just rumored) nerfs.

JB_Man wrote:People that think changing faith, the book, or other "little" or "OP" things makes sense don't seem to understand how central they are to the army not sucking dick. I can't imagine what they're going to do to make up for the gak-storm of (hopefully just rumored) nerfs.

Just when I was wondering how this thread could get any better, I find this capstone. Great job parodying everyone else's responses, JB_Man!

It's better then nothing I guess..

I am very curious about this WD dex...

I don't play in tournament, so I must admit that I don't care very much about what is OP or a little weak. I will field different lists against my friends, with units I like or with units which suit with an army/battle theme.

The most important part is, imho, that sisters must be an army truly independent, with very recognizable characteristics, not only weakmeq with faith or femaleguard with powerarmor and "quality" gears ...
I hope for flavor and some kind of : "wow, only sisters can do that" (once again, faith and exorcist are about this, now - so I hope a lil' more.)

I am a little disapointed about a WD issue, still, not because of the "rules" themselves, but I don't like the unpleasant shape it will take. Differents pages on two WD... You can call that the "it's not a real codex" syndrome, I suppose...

gorgon wrote:

Melissia wrote:

gorgon wrote:

Creeping Dementia wrote:Has anyone heard anything about the Book of St. Lucius yet? Seems to be a major factor of the current army that hasn't been adressed yet.

I think you can safely say it's going to get reined in quite a bit.

Quite a bit? So what, they have to make an Ld check every turn to see if they get stubborn? How exactly do you "reign in" the BoSL? It's no overpowered as it is. Frankly it should just be part of the base rules of the Sisters units anyway.

Hardly the most broken thing in the game, but it is quite good and seen in basically every single Sisters army. Wargear like that tends to get the nerf bat. That's just how it is.

And no, I don't think Sisters should get Stubborn as a basic rule.

my observation of real women is that they are very stubborn...

pretre wrote:Fast attack slot would fix them pretty well.

And compete with seraphim? whatever your smoking you might want to stop....

gorgon wrote:Hardly the most broken thing in the game, but it is quite good and seen in basically every single Sisters army.

That's like saying that Mob rule and Boss Poles are both seen in every Ork army so they should be nerfed, or that ATSKNF is seen in every Marine army so it needs to be nerfed, or that CCS and Orders are seen in (just about) every Guard army, so Orders needs to be nerfed. Might as well say that troops are seen in every army so let's nerf all troops choices too.

BoSL is as vital to Sisters as ATSKNF is to Marines and Mob Rule is to Orks. Nerfing it without any logical reasoning behind it such as suggested here, IE nerfing for merely the sake of swinging the nerfbat, is hardly a good design decision.

carmachu wrote:

pretre wrote:Fast attack slot would fix them pretty well.

And compete with seraphim? whatever your smoking you might want to stop....

Indeed. They can't really compete for any slot at the moment, they're too costly for how fragile they are compared to other, less expensive/more durable/easily controlled units which usually also have more advanced tactical options.

Fredegar Kadere wrote:Storm Ravens? But.. but.. Black Library has them zipping around in Valkyries!

Good point, why do we no longer see anything about inquistion Valks?

Is GW too busy trying to sell Storm Ravens?

I would have loved to see Inquistional forces in the new Codex(s) having Valks as a dedicated or even general transport. Any hint of that?

Melissia wrote:BoSL is as vital to Sisters as ATSKNF is to Marines and Mob Rule is to Orks. Nerfing it without any logical reasoning behind it such as suggested here, IE nerfing for merely the sake of swinging the nerfbat, is hardly a good design decision.

Nonsense. There's a big difference between all the things you mention and the book. You're comparing an army's special rule and another army's very basic upgrade character equipment to a unique wargear item for ICs. The problem is that players -- perhaps rightfully so -- have become reliant on that wargear item. But the designers didn't mean to make it as intrinsic as ATSKNF, else the book rule would have been built into the Canonness. I think you know this, but this discussion has entered arguing for argument's sake territory.

Perhaps the Canonness will have some kind of similar ability in the next iteration. Who knows? But IMO, the game has too much Stubborn/Fearless/ATSKNF already. Fluffilogically, maybe Sisters are fanatics, but if you haven't noticed, everything in the game is some sort of raving lunatic on the battlefield. High Ld Stubborn is probably better than Fearless overall...and I'm not seeing how Sisters should come out ahead of Khorne Berzerkers, etc. in that regard.

I expect that Sisters are going to be just fine, especially if they release the models in Finecast at that time. They'll want to push the models, hence the rules won't suck. I'd lay money that you're looking at some significant points cuts though, and you know what that brings...

carmachu wrote:

pretre wrote:Fast attack slot would fix them pretty well.

And compete with seraphim? whatever your smoking you might want to stop....

It is called 'bring your own cover'. I can hide a lot behind 3 penitent engines.

gorgon wrote:Nonsense. There's a big difference between all the things you mention and the book.

No, there really isn't. The BoSL is all but in name the Sisters' basic rules. No, the BoSL isn't jsut for ICs. It's an upgrade to sergeants primarily, one that is mandatory because without it sisters run like Marines woudl without ATSKNF and Combat Tactics.

The fact that you claim that it's Independent Character only shows you really don't know that much about the army....

Is there any info on new special characters, or characters that change the force organisation? Full Seraphim army would look sexy.