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Melissia wrote:

JGrand wrote:Let's all freak out and judge Sisters based on incomplete rumors without points costs!!!!

I bet you nine internets that my suspicions will be proven to be completely and utterly true come release date.

So you are betting that the WD Codex will be a 'fiery black hole'? Seems like a poor choice for a bet.

No, only that it would suck as much.

Rumors I heard about new faith implementation has suck written all over it. faith works on a 5+ and only one act per unit? that sounds bad. I like the current version of faith how if you build your list around it and use it wisely it can largely impact the game.

Latest BOK rumors about the cannoness sucking has me worried. I like the current jump cannoness with the ability to get the 2+ invulnerable along with an eviserator or blessed weapon about the only thing in the codex good at cc.

I'll wait and see if it sucks I still got guard and space pups.

edit: wrong thread

My Canoness death squad is fairly infamous for the amount of punishment it can take (due to invul saves and wound allocation) along with having some bite to it. If she is nerfed as much as the rumors say (and considering that they think keeping other models more or less the same is a fantastic improvement that would be a lot) I will be pretty unhappy.

People said that this army will have a nitch outside of being a guard ripoff but I'm not sure what that is when they can spam meltas and flamers almost easily and a 3+ armor save only protects so much when everyone is T3. I'm with Melissa in that I think this isn't going to be very good and any optimism is unfounded. However if it's just the hold over I can live with it. The problem being with the new White Dwarf super blackout on all information until a day before policy we probably won't know what the intention behind this is.

Completely off topic but oddly in support of Melissa's theory.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-13783877

Does this count as a black hole on fire?

DarkStarSabre wrote:Completely off topic but oddly in support of Melissa's theory.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-13783877

Does this count as a black hole on fire?

So much for GW keeping things under wraps, pretty bad when BBC scoops them.

And my apologies to Melissia, apparently you were right. Here's a leaked pic of the new Sisters Codex from WD:



PANIC!!!!!!



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Ixquic wrote: any optimism is unfounded.

As well as any pessimism. After all, we don't have any real information.

The best thing about being a pessimist is that you are constantly either being proven right or pleasantly surprised.

Omegus wrote:The best thing about being a pessimist is that you are constantly either being proven right or pleasantly surprised.

isnt that an optimistic view of pessimism?

DarkStarSabre wrote:Completely off topic but oddly in support of Melissa's theory.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-13783877

Does this count as a black hole on fire?

The problem is that we haven't heard anything good yet. Everything if how stuff has been nerfed (Cannoness), limited, altered for 'simplicity' (Acts), or not improved enough (Repentia).

The Grog wrote:The problem is that we haven't heard anything good yet. Everything if how stuff has been nerfed (Cannoness), limited, altered for 'simplicity' (Acts), or not improved enough (Repentia).

Good thing all those nerfs are just rumors and we don't have any hard facts then, right?

Points costs reductions are increases in power, flat out. The fact that Seraphim are cheaper and better now is not a nerf. The fact that standard sisters may be able to take immolators is not a nerf. The fact that Celestian gets thrawn's version of WBB and not her old one is not a nerf.

You can twist rumors however you want so that you can PANIC, but that doesn't make them anything but rumors. Calm down a bit and just wait for the WDdex before you declare it the end of the world.


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Oh yeah, confessors getting retinues and reroll hit and wound. That's not a nerf.

Repentia with FNP, Fleet and a 4+/6+ that can strike after they die. Not a nerf.

Celestians with Combi-weapons in addition to normal weapons. Not a nerf.

Exorcist with Longer Range.

Retributors with Rending instead of just AP1.
etc so on.




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Also, d6 Faith per unit in a pool with an unknown mechanic to use it (possibly WHFB style power dice) is a change, not a nerf. For all you know, there may be one special faith power per unit and one default one for all units. (Like how GK get special Psychic Powers but all units can use NFW.)

We just don't know.

The real problem is that we won't have any real way to gauge the strength of the codex until a full year has gone by. Assuming that 6th edition is just around the corner as everyone suspects, we have no idea what GW is going to do and how they're going to change things. For instance, look at Eldar and 'Run' for an example of how something intrinsic to an army can get screwed over by out of the blue changes in a new edition.

Eumerin wrote:The real problem is that we won't have any real way to gauge the strength of the codex until a full year has gone by. Assuming that 6th edition is just around the corner as everyone suspects, we have no idea what GW is going to do and how they're going to change things. For instance, look at Eldar and 'Run' for an example of how something intrinsic to an army can get screwed over by out of the blue changes in a new edition.

Not sure I get you here. By that line of reasoning, we should never gauge the strength of a previous codex until it is replaced... Afterall, how do we know how strong a codex is until it is used in every edition that it will be legal in. Under this premise, was the Necron Codex strong? It was pretty decent in 3rd and 4th and pretty poor in 5th, do we average that to 'okay'?

And I'm not sure Fleet vs Run is really Eldar's weakness at this point.

pretre wrote:Retributors with Rending instead of just AP1.

Frankly, theyr'e still gonna suck, and this (if the rumor is true) comes at the price of removing AP1 from every other squad, dramatically reducing the Sisters' ability to deal damage. They'd no better than Marines at damage-dealing in the 0-18" range now, despite being less effective everywhere else. Lower price doesn't help much if you have nothing else really there to buy with it in the first place.

They might suck, but you can field 9 penitent engines. So that's better. Look on the bright side for a change

Redbeard wrote:They might suck, but you can field 9 penitent engines. So that's better. Look on the bright side for a change

lol...



Sisters can already take nine p.engines... most people don't because they're far, far too fragile for their price.

So, what, are Penitent Engines even worse than Killakans or something? I mean, 9 walkers is generally a whole lot...

Anvildude wrote:So, what, are Penitent Engines even worse than Killakans or something? I mean, 9 walkers is generally a whole lot...

AV11, open topped, no ranged weapons, and you can't control where they go. Pretty sure they're more expensive too, but I haven't memorized the Ork dex yet, so I may be wrong.

Edit* Has anyone heard anything about the Book of St. Lucius yet? Seems to be a major factor of the current army that hasn't been adressed yet.

They were much worse than kans before.

Kan pros: AV 11, closed-top, backed-up with a mek w/ forcefield.

Kan cons: low WS/I.

Engine Pros: WS4, moved +d6 inches/move, plus a run, ignore shaken/stunned.
Engine Cons: Cost twice as much, open topped, Only I3 (other walkers beat them), open topped, cost twice as much.


But if you dropped them to kan prices, they'd be decent. With an extra d6 move and then running, they can be in your opponent's face much faster than they usually expect.

Redbeard wrote:But if you dropped them to kan prices, they'd be decent. With an extra d6 move and then running, they can be in your opponent's face much faster than they usually expect.

Initiative 4, imo at Kan prices with them being open topped and no ranged weaponry (save for a hvy flamer) would make them decent... dunno... maybe that's too overboard, but i don't think so since they would prob take up the excorsist slots

*edit* still think they'd die in droves though :/

Fast attack slot would fix them pretty well.

Anvildude wrote:So, what, are Penitent Engines even worse than Killakans or something? I mean, 9 walkers is generally a whole lot...

80 points, AV11 front and side, open topped, with Rage so they charge the closest unit, even if it's a lone confused grot.

Dear God, any more actual news?

Creeping Dementia wrote:

Anvildude wrote:So, what, are Penitent Engines even worse than Killakans or something? I mean, 9 walkers is generally a whole lot...

AV11, open topped, no ranged weapons, and you can't control where they go. Pretty sure they're more expensive too, but I haven't memorized the Ork dex yet, so I may be wrong.

Edit* Has anyone heard anything about the Book of St. Lucius yet? Seems to be a major factor of the current army that hasn't been adressed yet.

Probably removed in favor of some half-assed faith mechanic instead, but they might pleasantly surprise us and instead integrate stubborn or the BoSL as it is into the baseline.


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Least I hope they will anyway. Hopefully it won't be something stupid like having them faithfully being faithful while oufaithing the most faithfuls of any faith's faithing faithfuls who are themselves so faithful that they start new faiths which themselves are faithful to them.

Or some other stupid crap. BA and SW already suffered through this.

Nah, the new Book will force you to make a Ld check as the Sisters skim the book to see if they are guilty of any heresies. If you succeed on the check, they've found something to make an issue of, and you replace the unit with Repentia models. If you don't have adequate Repentia models to represent the squad, it is destroyed and removed from play.

/facepalm


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Although joking, Omegus' comment brings up a cool idea. Having a Repentia work like the old Death Company would be pretty cool.

I.e. You roll for each squad and any failed rolls remove one model and place them in a 'Free' repentia squad.

Omegus wrote:Nah, the new Book will force you to make a Ld check as the Sisters skim the book to see if they are guilty of any heresies. If you succeed on the check, they've found something to make an issue of, and you replace the unit with Repentia models. If you don't have adequate Repentia models to represent the squad, it is destroyed and removed from play.

thats just... DAMN! thats just all kinds of bad.

Creeping Dementia wrote:Has anyone heard anything about the Book of St. Lucius yet? Seems to be a major factor of the current army that hasn't been adressed yet.

I think you can safely say it's going to get reined in quite a bit. The best stuff isn't going to be as good, and the worst stuff isn't going to be bad anymore. Which will cause much much gnashing of teeth on the internets, even though two things will probably become more useful for every one that gets a nerf.

gorgon wrote:I think you can safely say it's going to get reined in quite a bit. The best stuff isn't going to be as good, and the worst stuff isn't going to be bad anymore. Which will cause much much gnashing of teeth on the internets, even though two things will probably become more useful for every one that gets a nerf.

Wow. I am shocked and appalled at the lack of crazy-talk in this post. Thank you, gorgon.