Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Based on...?
Because of...?
Due to...?

Just because you and pretre are not willing to read my posts doesn't mean I have no reason.

Slinky wrote:

kestral wrote:I REALLY don't like the faith rumors. The old style faith was a powerful, unique tactical tool that you could use to turn the tide of battle a critical point. Unreliable unit upgrades add nothing to the fun of playing the army.

It was hardly reliable before, really, owing to the unit size mechanic.

Which was reliable anyway? You use divine guidance when you have a lot of bolters to shoot, hand of the emperor when you have lots of sisters to make up for hote being I1, and spirit of the martyr when your already damaged squad needs to hold out for just a few phases longer.

Intelligent and logical application led to them being quite reliable.

Melissia wrote:

Omegus wrote:Roll 4+ and he gets back up with a 1" reposition.

Ah, so it IS a nerf of Celestine's abilities.

So basically aside from Repentia, Sisters just got a bunch of nerfs based off of that rumor. And, MAYBE celestians... whom will still be shooty units with assault stats. Yay.

So this is what you said before your flaming black hole comment...

I think both H.B.M.C and I read it, we just still are confused how 1 + 1 = 24 for you...

I like the current acts of faith very characterful and good as well. Have to see how the new system works before I pass judgment but the rumors don't sound to good.

Have to dig up the Sisters fandex my friends and I made and see what we did with stuff. From memory.

Retributers should be moved to elites and given ability to take missle launchers. (this fixes the competes with exorcists and gives sisters the more anti tank they need)

Pertinent Engines should be moved to fast attack given fleet. Now that dreadknights and thunder wolves are out would consider making Pertinent Engines into a monsterous creature.

Repentia need to be able to take a transport. You don't just run across the battlefield with a chainsword expecting to make it to your opponent when they have lots of bolters unless there are 100s of you.

Rhinos should be adjusted to Space Marine cost and Immolator given a 15 point discount.

They should introduce Repressors and Razorbacks as well.

@Melissia
I see where your concern about the codex being not very good with the current rumors but I will wait and see.

Avariel wrote:Retributers should be moved to elites and given ability to take missle launchers. (this fixes the competes with exorcists and gives sisters the more anti tank they need)

Elites would be perfect for Retributors. No Missile Launchers though, please. Doesn't really fit. Rending Heavy Bolters are actually pretty decent for light transport work and this would be the perfect spot to put them.

Pertinent Engines should be moved to fast attack given fleet. Now that dreadknights and thunder wolves are out would consider making Pertinent Engines into a monsterous creature.

Definitely.

Repentia need to be able to take a transport. You don't just run across the battlefield with a chainsword expecting to make it to your opponent when they have lots of bolters unless there are 100s of you.

Ugh, no. Doesn't fit them. Just make them very cheap and I think you'll be fine. With fleet and the run forward when they miss morale, they're already doing okay. Making them super cheap and they'd be fine.

Rhinos should be adjusted to Space Marine cost and Immolator given a 15 point discount.

Sure.

They should introduce Repressors and Razorbacks as well.

I think they could solve it by just adding Heavy Flamer as an option for Rhinos (which is really all a repressor is) and making Immolators transport more girls. Please, no razorbacks or if we get them, give them something different. No Las/Plas, TL Las, etc. Maybe Heavy Flamer, Twin Linked MM and Hurricane Bolter armed Immo/Razorbacks?

Anyways, we're just wishlisting now.

A repressor is more than just a heavy flamer on top of a rhino, it has an expanded crew compartment that grants it a bunch of fire points. It's like a hybrid between a chimera and a rhino.

Omegus wrote:A repressor is more than just a heavy flamer on top of a rhino, it has an expanded crew compartment that grants it a bunch of fire points. It's like a hybrid between a chimera and a rhino.

Don't they have dozer blades as well? Or a Siege Shield or something?

Avariel wrote:Retributers should be moved to elites and given ability to take missle launchers. (this fixes the competes with exorcists and gives sisters the more anti tank they need)

Pertinent Engines should be moved to fast attack given fleet. Now that dreadknights and thunder wolves are out would consider making Pertinent Engines into a monsterous creature.

So... the only uni that would exist in the HS slot would be the exorcist?

The ONLY way this would work is if they aded five or six brand new HS choices... and no, immolators don't count, they're just overpriced razorbacks as it is


Pretre: Ah, selective quoting, such an old, tried, and true trolling method.

Melissia wrote:Pretre: Ah, selective quoting, such an old, tried, and true trolling method.

Sorry, I only quoted the entirety of one of your posts. I probably should have multi-quoted everything you wrote about sisters for the last year. My bad.

Honestly... I love the faith mechanic of sisters the way it is. It takes skill to use and experience to be good with. I've given the new GKs a run for their money using faith right...

Just Dave wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Sanctuary 101 a massacre (as far as we know), rather than a battle?

My vague recollection is that it was actually the very first battle report involving the (at the time extremely new, with only the most basic elements of the army statted out in WD) Necrons.

Melissia wrote:

Avariel wrote:Retributers should be moved to elites and given ability to take missle launchers. (this fixes the competes with exorcists and gives sisters the more anti tank they need)

Pertinent Engines should be moved to fast attack given fleet. Now that dreadknights and thunder wolves are out would consider making Pertinent Engines into a monsterous creature.

So... the only unit that would exist in the HS slot would be the exorcist?

The ONLY way this would work is if they aded five or six brand new HS choices... and no, immolators don't count, they're just overpriced razorbacks as it is

Agreed... SoB need more units. Competing units are perfectly acceptable as long as their are enough worth while units in every FOC, and given the current codex trends that seems likely.

Let's all freak out and judge Sisters based on incomplete rumors without points costs!!!!

Come on people. As of right now Sisters are not competitive, not interesting or flavorful, and not fun to play. Even the die hard Sisters players have to admit the codex is bad. Here's a nice link that breaks down the victories in 2010-2011 for the Indy GT circuit per army:

http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2011/06/06/indy-gt-circuit-2010-2011-season-in-review/

No wins by Sisters?!?! It's almost like the codex is bad. The only lists that anyone ever sees are all the same mono build. Marines light with faith points. It's a horrible codex. To those who are complaining; how are you getting worse? Because really, if you make Sisters competitive, fun, or interesting it's already an upgrade.

Slinky wrote:

kestral wrote:I REALLY don't like the faith rumors. The old style faith was a powerful, unique tactical tool that you could use to turn the tide of battle a critical point. Unreliable unit upgrades add nothing to the fun of playing the army.

It was hardly reliable before, really, owing to the unit size mechanic.

Then you didnt know what you were doing with the acts of faith. Once you get down what is what, they were VERY reiable to set off. You could tailor the sqaud to how and when, once you knew what sizes were needed.

I never had an issue setting off any of them. Only if you rolled rather bad did it become an issue.

JGrand wrote:As of right now Sisters are not competitive, not interesting or flavorful, and not fun to play. Even the die hard Sisters players have to admit the codex is bad. Here's a nice link that breaks down the victories in 2010-2011 for the Indy GT circuit per army:

http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2011/06/06/indy-gt-circuit-2010-2011-season-in-review/

No wins by Sisters?!?! It's almost like the codex is bad. The only lists that anyone ever sees are all the same mono build. Marines light with faith points. It's a horrible codex. To those who are complaining; how are you getting worse? Because really, if you make Sisters competitive, fun, or interesting it's already an upgrade.

Your version of fun and mine must not align. I also find them to be flavorful and have the swiss army knife- that is faith... used properly it can win games. Competitive-wise: I knocked out the favored Mech-IG frontrunner at a local tourny due to my troop swarm SoB list, with a crazed Callidus assassin running around his back-field the entire game. Sure: First turn I lost half my army. It sucked. No question about it. I lost 40 of my 78 model list. But all 35 (my 3 excorsists got stuck not coming in till turn 4 due to his unit adding -1 to reserve rolls) of my remaining sisters became invul on subsequent turns and rocked the hell outa him. It ended in a draw because he couldn't table me and was slow playing with his remaining 2 models, when time was called... They just happened to be on an objective and I'd just hopped 2 seraphim to contest.

As far as your tourny link there... is that how many players there were or wins each army had? It really doesn't specify...

JGrand wrote:Let's all freak out and judge Sisters based on incomplete rumors without points costs!!!!

There. I quoted the only good part of what Jgrand said.

So far, the rumours are absolutely incomplete. So I can't make an accurate assessment of what's going to happen to my current 1600pt army list.

However, if what the rumours say are true:
-I'll lose my Inquisition and assassins, meaning I'll completely lack any kind long range firepower that isn't my single lone exorcist. This will likely force me to buy more exorcists, but they're very expensive (Like, $85 per). I like the organ style ones too, so I'm not going to get the forgeworld crap. I lose my Vindicator just as he starts becoming remotely capable, which means I can no longer one shot vehicles from a distance safely anymore. I can't take out HQs from units, I can't pinpoint attack powerfists/thunder hammers/etc. I also lose my only effective blast markers through my Inq henchmen's Gun servitors. The new rules may force me to use Retributors(or whatever they're called), the sister HW squad, if they're the only ones to get Divine guidance. *sigh*
-I'll lose utility in my sister units from the "streamlining"/weakening of the faith system.
-I'll probably lose my Arco-flags unless they're miraculously left in the codex(and if a second miracle makes it so they're exponentially better than the depressingly retconned GK arco-flags), which means I no longer have an effective power weapon wielding assault squad(that also was hilariously fun to play, and whom my friends dreaded whenever they were fielded) unless the Repentia can fill that hole, and even then, it's a stretch.
-No more Anti-Psyker attacks, as I've lost my assassin and my Inquisitor. No psychic abilities at all.
-No more Old Man on the Chair. Not that he was any good to begin with.
-A seemingly nerfed Celestine. Not that she was any good to begin with.
-A seemingly ultra-nerfed Canoness, which is depressing because she was the most effective HQ choice bar none for me.
-A hopelessly useless Priest that's apparently close to unchanged. I hope his point value drops to 20, because he was so terrible.
-Repentia that's got FNP, a 6+ invuln, and are apparently cheaper. Welp, they're still going to die in droves, but at least they won't get massacred in blast templates as badly anymore.
-Seraphim lose twin-linked in exchange for two full shots. Cool, I guess. Not a big improvement, but it's welcome nonetheless. I didn't have good luck with the unit so I tend to ignore it for the most part. Maybe this codex will have me dusting them off again.
-Possibly Repressors? Would be cool. Expensive, but cool.
-No real changes to Penitent Engines, aside from potentially unit size IIRC. At my local shop, they're about as expensive as an exorcist, so I do't own any, considering they're useless in the current codex. zthey need serious work in order to be remotely effective.
-No more arbites....not that I used them, but they were always kind of funny.
-No ally support, so no IG tanks. So I hope the sisters get something to balance this out.

What I'd like to see:
-More utility in the army, or at least more specialties. I'd want to see new units replace each one we lost with an equivalent(or close to it).
-Expansion on fluff of current units
-Worthwhile HQs. The previous ones had good fluff, but were useless on the field, so maybe we can go 2 for 2 this time? Good fluff and worthwhile rules?
-Interesting new wargear options to provide new, fun ways of playing a unit or IC.
-Lower point costs across the board, generally.
-A maintained high risk/reward style of play that the army is known for. The army requires attention to detail, and if you play well, you're usually rewarded. If you make mistakes, you pay a high price. I liked that balance, felt right with the WitchHunters' polarized views on life.
-Something that sets it apart from marine armies. Without the Inquisition, there's honestly none of that now. Aside from the sex of the troops.
-Faith still be useful. It was reliable, fun and interesting. Once I learned how to pick my spots, I was hitting around 90% of faith tests, still taking the odd risk here and there.
--Anti-Psyker stuff

I hope it's goof. I'm not sure it will be though. August will be interesting, it'll either be a great birthday gift, or the worst

Is there any news on who is actually writing the SoB WD Codex so far? Since Ward is too busy writing his 'necroblasters' and 'necrofists' and 'nemesis doomnecrobloodstrikefists' I think we can safely say he is not behind the streamlining.

Ehsteve wrote:Is there any news on who is actually writing the SoB WD Codex so far? Since Ward is too busy writing his 'necroblasters' and 'necrofists' and 'nemesis doomnecrobloodstrikefists' I think we can safely say he is not behind the streamlining.

The same BoK post that said the Sisters would be getting a WD codex back in May also said Cruddace was writing it.

I'd like to see faith to become a larger part of the army, not a smaller one. i think it'd be awesome to see faith be more than a bonus here, bonus there when you need it, but more of a pervasive, all encompassing part of the army.

I think that fluff wise the sisters have so much potential that GW leaves untapped

Ugh, Cruddace is in many ways worse than Ward.

The sad thing is that all I really want are cost updates and a reworking of the terrible, cityfight units (as I call them, as they are only good in cityfight). Arcos, Priests, Repentia, Pentient Engines, and Retributors.

At least Ward writes balanced rules, now we're either gonna get poor fluff and ridiculously overpowered and undercosted sisters or poor fluff and very nerfed sisters. Woop de ******* do.

Scarey Nerd wrote:At least Ward writes balanced rules, now we're either gonna get poor fluff and ridiculoudly overpowered and undercosted sisters or poor fluff anf very nerfed sisters. Woop de ******* do.

im guessing the latter. though the former would be great, but we all know what gw does to hopes and dreams.

Eumerin wrote:

Just Dave wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Sanctuary 101 a massacre (as far as we know), rather than a battle?

My vague recollection is that it was actually the very first battle report involving the (at the time extremely new, with only the most basic elements of the army statted out in WD) Necrons.

Indeed.

This was later fleshed out/refered to in the fluff as being somewhat of a massacre.

We'll probably get some more details about this in December -- http://www.blacklibrary.com/coming-soon/december-2011/Hammer-and-Anvil.html

JGrand wrote:Let's all freak out and judge Sisters based on incomplete rumors without points costs!!!!

I bet you nine internets that my suspicions will be proven to be completely and utterly true come release date.

Scarey Nerd wrote:At least Ward writes balanced rules

I nearly wrote off a work computer's keyboard with water at this. Compare one Codex to another and tell me this. Compare the spontaneously cheaper Vanguard from one to the other.

Ward writes Codex creep.

And fluff?

Don't even get me started on that (let's ally with Necrons yay!)

reds8n wrote:

Eumerin wrote:

Just Dave wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Sanctuary 101 a massacre (as far as we know), rather than a battle?

My vague recollection is that it was actually the very first battle report involving the (at the time extremely new, with only the most basic elements of the army statted out in WD) Necrons.

Indeed.

This was later fleshed out/refered to in the fluff as being somewhat of a massacre.

We'll probably get some more details about this in December -- http://www.blacklibrary.com/coming-soon/december-2011/Hammer-and-Anvil.html

So my overall point stands in that this wouldn't be the best starter box? Unless the Sisters models were horribly mutilated or whatnot (by which I don't mean finecast )...

Also, I think that's a pretty good concept of what the SoB could/should look like on that Red. IMHO anyway, I know it's very much a preference thing with the SoB's appearance...

DarkStarSabre wrote:

Scarey Nerd wrote:At least Ward writes balanced rules

I nearly wrote off a work computer's keyboard with water at this.

OK, when I say balanced, I should have said "Mostly balanced". They're not exactly JOTWW standard, are they?

Apart from JOTWW the Wolves seem well refined.

Mind you, perhaps I'm just cynical. I mean, my Chaos were a hash job done by Gav Thorpe before he left the company which managed to genericise them - Ward then produced the SM codex which had all the options they lost....

And then I got Cruddace butchering my 'nids, turning it into obvious SELL NEW MODELS codex.

Sigh.

Hopefully when it comes out alot of the questions will be answered (fingers crossed positively!)