Sisters of Battle to receive a White Dwarf Codex (confirmation on pg 13)

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**andrewm9**

androcles138 wrote:true, I guess a lot of it is that i play the sisters a lot different than other people

Its all in how you play and whether you enjoy it or not. If it works for you then go for it though its not a maneuver I would repeat often. Incidentally the 2 Celestians in a Rhino with meltas costs about the same points. Of course you can play it even safer and drive 6" and fire both meltas out of the top without even getting out assuming people lety you run your Rhino's that way.

**androcles138**

truth. My main holdup with that is that the large portion of my sisters list is a gunline, and since besides my 3 exorcists i don't have any saturation i tend to stay away from transports.
Low saturation plus 1 or 2 transports=dead transports

**The Grog**

That has an appalling chance of screwing up. Average scatter is likely to either mishap you, or take you out of 6" range.

I say they are overpriced because they are. Assault Marines are 20 points each, and average at that price. A properly equipped 8 woman squad is 200 points, before VSS gear. Even a min squad geared to hunt tanks is 160 or 175, depending on if you like meltabombs or a VSS w/Evis. Or 10 less for a VSS with Combi-melta.

To really make Seraphim worth it you have to burn faith like water. I played a Chaos player who commented that they were really good, the star of the game for my side thanks to good luck on saves and good placement, and that I should consider taking more. Then I mentioned that they were 22 points each, and he winced.

Many of our costs are simply not consistent with modern codexi. Combi prices, transport prices, jump pack prices. Sisters need a unit to assault the remains of what you shoot but don't kill, else your Celestian/Sisters squads get dragged into long, drawn out combats that attrit your ability to focus fire even if they don't kill the unit in question. But for the price of a Seraphim unit I can give the rest of the army Evicerators or Power Weapons, kit the Cannonesses for melee combat, and sometimes buy mastercrafting too. Are they really the equal of, say, Hellions, who cost 16 each?

Do you not field actual Sisters squads? A gunline army only works if you take a lot of inducted IG, since basic Sisters squads are terrible ranged shooters.

**androcles138**

actually my 2k list typically consists of 3 sisters squads, 3 inq. squads (2 hb/plasma cannon), 3 exo's, 3 5 man serephim squads, jump canoness and around 250 discretionary points depending on who im fighting, usually another jump canoness to attach to serephim. I've actually had a much different experience with basic sisters squads and shooting.

Each sister squad looks like:
10 sisters
1 vet
imagifer

They can divine guidance for marine+ shooting, or, in this new gk ridden universe of ours, tying up a dreadknight for the entire game which from a points analysis viewpoint, is spending 144 points to nullify over 200. also their ability to tie up anything that would otherwise assault the inq. shooting squads or exorcists, get 3++ and spend the rest of the game ducking and weaving while big baddies struggle to get past their holy dodginess.

Difference of opinion maybe, but the list has won tournies

Plus i always giggle when someone says that a certain way of playing something is the "only way". i've seen competitive lists that are so out of left field that it seems almost silly to say there's an "only way" on anything

**The Grog**

I'll be honest, I have no conception of how you can beat mech IG, BA, SW, or GK Death-cult/Land Raider armies with that. Or win objectives missions.

I'm assuming the 'inq. squads' are retinues, since that is the only way you can get plasma cannons.

**androcles138**

usually then what i do is start serephim on the board, hug cover, cists on transports or ubiquitous av 12s, rely on melta for heavy tank busting, cists if there are no av 12s left. Mech guard are the easiest of what you listed, as locally most mech guard rely more heavily on chimera/Valkyries than the heavier armor. BA and GK aren't too hard either as reliance on high cost models make the armies wicked small.

**The Grog**

Hmm. Vendetta vs. Exorcist isn't a fight I expect the Exorcist to win, but if they are fielding Valkyries instead ...

I'm not sure about normal GK, but there is a 2 Raider full of Death Cult + Techmarine, one with a Librarian and one with Coteaz, along with 4 or 5 3 man henchmen squads in Assault Cannon Razorbacks with psi-ammo that is a godawful pain here. The list only has 3 actual Grey Knights in it.

I can't help but think that your list would be better if the retinues were removed for an IG platoon with autocannon HWS units. Perhaps the retinues are vastly tougher than I expect them to be at 7 models, t3, 4+. What's your composition here? But then I also expect you to lose 2/3rd of your Seraphim on the first turn due to weight of fire, 3++ or not.

**androcles138**

the retinues come out to 135 a retinue with 2 heavy bolters, a plasma cannon, 2 sages. 1 of them has a psychic hood (duh). And if 2/3 of the serephim get killed after they DS that's actually better for me bc the amount of fire it takes to down them with the 3++ in place means there's less fire goin elsewhere in the army. Another reason i swear by them is that killing //the right// 100 pts can be more valuable than taking out 2-300 pts in a less valuable location. DS behind someone at a crucial moment and gack them, serephim have done their job, any bullet-sponging they do then is just gravy. Very much a kamikaze squad the way i run em, but i rarely (read DS mishap) find them not serving their purpose well. I've thought about dropping 2 of the retinues for some guardsmen (even have the models from my old 3rd ed. basalisk and boys days), but i'm keeping at least 1 of them for the hood.

The GK lists we're finding out here mostly center on purifiers and DKs. Usually the way those games go is 1st turn cists focus on bringing down a dk, 1 sisters squad charges the other (which invariably spend the 1st turn shunting) and combined plasma bath/ serephim/ heavy bolters take out troops to deny objective grabbing capability. //usually// by that point, with the exception of the occasional stormraven/dreadnaught, they're all out of anti-armor, and objective grabbing, and then it's just a matter of serephim tying up the purifiers while my sisters scramble for the objectives.

haven't faced a deathcult gk list yet. maybe i'm ignorant here but i thought you could only have up to 3 of each kind of henchmen in a unit?

**CT GAMER**

Redbeard wrote:
I've got a freakshow inq army...

I'm hoping these guys become more than a nice display.

That pic brings tears of joy to my eyes.

**The Grog**

Nah, that's the old limit. The new codex is a unit of 3-12 filled with any combination. Death Cult assassins are S 4, I 6, A 3 for them, and Hammerhand/MoT make them S 6 (Techmarine in each unit, Librarian with one, Coteaz with the other). S 7 on the charge from rad grenades. And they're just 15 points each.

**Eumerin**

So...

Speculation time...

- Assuming that 6th edition is slated for summer of next year (which seems likely, and is the current popular theory), GW has time for two (maybe three if they really squeeze them in; let's stick with two) more codices. They can put one out before the end of this year, and one due out next year, by April at the latest (maaaaybe May, but that's probably getting too close to 6th edition's roll out).

- GW's likely rationale for releasing the WD codex is so that they can claim, with a straight face, that Sisters aren't the only army still operating with a 3rd edition Codex when 6th is unveiled (i.e. so that GW can claim that they haven't been neglecting the Sisters). And that means that Sisters won't be coming out before 6th edition.

- GW always releases new editions of the game at the end of Summer. The next thing that they've always released for 40K is a Space Marine Codex. This always appears in Fall of that year. GW never releases anything in December.

So the earliest that we might expect a real (i.e. bound as a book) Sisters codex is early 2013.

**frgsinwntr**

Here are the changes i would expect.

1)Faith points will be removed and replaced with faith checks (just a straight of LD check)

2) Exorcists will become 10 pts cheaper

3) Basic rhinos will come down to Marine costs, Immolators will be 15pts cheaper

4) Meltas in squads will be 5pts each, flamers free

5) Dominions can take more special weapons per squad for a better cost

6) penitent engines will become 3 wound toughness 6 monstrous creatures

7) Retributors will move to Elites and ALL come with HBs or can take MMs (15pts each)

8 )Seraphim become cheaper and have fleet

But then... this is just a set of predictions after talking to the writer of the current sisters codex (sadly not the future one:( ) at several of the NE 40k GTs

**dkellyj**

Did anyone really think the exorcist is the better than a Vendetta?

Sure did, about 3-5 years ago...before the Vendetta even existed.
But thas why SoBs and Crons are in so much need of a upgrade. The level of tech-n-toys in 5th ed dexes have really killed the older armies.

**Scarey Nerd**

So to sum up with enormous amounts of speculation and borrowing from Eumerin's post, this WD codex means:

A) Necrons will be "pushed" back to November at the Earliest, as there won't be room for their FOTM in any WD before then.
B) The fact that it exists shows that GW aren't going to be putting the codex, and more importantly models, out for a while, I'd say almost definitely until 6th.
C) If they are pushed into 6th, they're going to be competing with all the Marine books that need updates, as well as the big armies like Eldar, Tyranids, Chaos Marines, IG. I'd estimate that the Sisters will hit in about late 2014. Emperor willing, I'm wrong, but I tend to look on the pessimistic, and often realistic, side of things.
D) Without the release of models before the actual codex, the WD ruleset will not stoke interest in the army. You can put out as many fanboy posters for an army as you want, but if noone can buy them and still want to eat food, it's irrelevant.
E) So... grand.

**kenzosan**

Scarey Nerd wrote:So to sum up with enormous amounts of speculation and borrowing from Eumerin's post, this WD codex means:

A) Necrons will be "pushed" back to November at the Earliest, as there won't be room for their FOTM in any WD before then.
B) The fact that it exists shows that GW aren't going to be putting the codex, and more importantly models, out for a while, I'd say almost definitely until 6th.
C) If they are pushed into 6th, they're going to be competing with all the Marine books that need updates, as well as the big armies like Eldar, Tyranids, Chaos Marines, IG. I'd estimate that the Sisters will hit in about late 2014. Emperor willing, I'm wrong, but I tend to look on the pessimistic, and often realistic, side of things.
D) Without the release of models before the actual codex, the WD ruleset will not stoke interest in the army. You can put out as many fanboy posters for an army as you want, but if noone can buy them and still want to eat food, it's irrelevant.
E) So... grand.

yea, that sounds about right. you forgot tau though. atleast let tau get updated, i need something. my hopes and dreams are a shattered wreck held by string about to snap and fall into the warp. thanks gw

joking aside, i do agree with your post scarey nerd.

**Scarey Nerd**

kenzosan wrote:
Scarey Nerd wrote:So to sum up with enormous amounts of speculation and borrowing from Eumerin's post, this WD codex means:

A) Necrons will be "pushed" back to November at the Earliest, as there won't be room for their FOTM in any WD before then.
B) The fact that it exists shows that GW aren't going to be putting the codex, and more importantly models, out for a while, I'd say almost definitely until 6th.
C) If they are pushed into 6th, they're going to be competing with all the Marine books that need updates, as well as the big armies like Eldar, Tyranids, Chaos Marines, IG. I'd estimate that the Sisters will hit in about late 2014. Emperor willing, I'm wrong, but I tend to look on the pessimistic, and often realistic, side of things.
D) Without the release of models before the actual codex, the WD ruleset will not stoke interest in the army. You can put out as many fanboy posters for an army as you want, but if noone can buy them and still want to eat food, it's irrelevant.
E) So... grand.

yea, that sounds about right. you forgot tau though. atleast let tau get updated, i need something. my hopes and dreams are a shattered wreck held by string about to snap and fall into the warp. thanks gw

joking aside, i do agree with your post scarey nerd.

Woops, I knew I forgot something. Necrons and Sisters are the two armies that hold my interest consistently so I tend to focus on them.

F) Following the pattern of Imperial/Non-Imperial, if Necrons are indeed in November then between them and 6th edition will be 1 Imperial army. My guess would be Black Templars or something brand new. This then puts Tau back into the same boat as Sisters, languishing till they receive an update.

**kenzosan**

Scarey Nerd wrote:Woops, I knew I forgot something. Necrons and Sisters are the two armies that hold my interest consistently so I tend to focus on them.

F) Following the pattern of Imperial/Non-Imperial, if Necrons are indeed in November then between them and 6th edition will be 1 Imperial army. My guess would be Black Templars or something brand new. This then puts Tau back into the same boat as Sisters, languishing till they receive an update.

cuz, screw the greater good, thats why. sorry iv been holding that in for hours.

**Frazzled**

Noisy_Marine wrote:I hope the exorcist still shoots D6 S8 AP1 missiles. That's one of the best parts of the codex.

Agreed.

**Omegus**

From the rumors on BoK, this "codex" is going to be quite sad. No more AP1 flamers or 3++ invulnerable. So while they still compete before, now they will be another third tier army along with the Tau.

**pretre**

Omegus wrote:From the rumors on BoK, this "codex" is going to be quite sad. No more AP1 flamers or 3++ invulnerable. So while they still compete before, now they will be another third tier army along with the Tau.

PANIC!

**gorgon**

I think that -- as always -- people are complaining about individual (potential) changes without context.

What if sisters are like 7 pts. apiece now?

**kenzosan**

gorgon wrote:I think that -- as always -- people are complaining about individual (potential) changes without context.

What if sisters are like 7 pts. apiece now?

then everyone will go bankrupt trying to build/update an army.

**Revarien**

kenzosan wrote:
gorgon wrote:I think that -- as always -- people are complaining about individual (potential) changes without context.

What if sisters are like 7 pts. apiece now?

then everyone will go bankrupt trying to build/update an army.

I have around 100 sisters... and I would field every single one....

and never be able to get to 2000 points, lol

**Just Dave**

kenzosan wrote:
gorgon wrote:I think that -- as always -- people are complaining about individual (potential) changes without context.

What if sisters are like 7 pts. apiece now?

then everyone will go bankrupt trying to build/update an army.

Then by that reasoning they will be about 7pts each.

**kenzosan**

Revarien wrote:
kenzosan wrote:
gorgon wrote:I think that -- as always -- people are complaining about individual (potential) changes without context.

What if sisters are like 7 pts. apiece now?

then everyone will go bankrupt trying to build/update an army.

I have around 100 sisters... and I would field every single one....

and never be able to get to 2000 points, lol

haha. IF sisters are 7 pts a piece then god help me if i do decide to actually start that damn army out of shear stubbornness. i want a sisters army. i dont want to wait over a year for it though.

Just Dave wrote:
Then by that reasoning they will be about 7pts each.

haha!

**frgsinwntr**

I don't trust the Blood of Kittens Networks rumors...

When have they ever been right or close to right?

**Just Dave**

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they first predict the Sisters WD Codex anyway?
Didn't they also provide a lot of solid info for Grey Knights?

**frgsinwntr**

got some examples or links?

**Just Dave**

The opening post here for one?

Edit: I'm not saying BoK is always right or that I support them; they seem more anti-social and aggressive than many 40K sites out there, but they do however seem to be a good source for rumours IMHO...

**Omegus**

I have a bunch of models saved for posterity, but I don't actually play the Sisters. I don't care one way or the other.

But yeah, the Sisters are apparently cheaper now. In case it hasn't been posted yet, here's what we "know":

Allies gone
Inquisition gone
Faith streamlined
USRs updated to 5th
Cheaper Unit costs

So let start with the big one and perhaps most controversial change to Sisters of Battle: Faith
I was amazed reading around the Net how quite a few people are pretty close to understanding how Faith is going to work. One caveat about the faith rules: I only have most of the story so let us hope someone else can pluck the rest from the aether. The only thing that really stays the same is only faith producing units can use faith. Gone is the over and under rules based on model count and gone is faith powers that everyone can use. It is replaced with every unit has its own unit specific act of faith to call upon.

So for instance Repentia Act of Faith allows them to always land an attack even if they are killed before they can swing. They are little bonuses like re-rolling to wound and hit, no USRs. Now this if fine and dandy if you just pop a faith point and bam! power goes off, but not so fast. Acts of Faith require that you roll 5+ to activate . This makes faith much more unreliable… maybe. In addition every unit that can get faith generates 1d6 faith points per turn. This also means that a new faith pool is generated each turn with no storing of past faith. As well faith can be activated in multiple phases of the game, so for instance you can re-roll to hit in your shooting phase or in your assault phase. What is not clear is a few things. Like how many dice can you throw at a single act of faith? How many times can you attempt to activated a power? If you get an act of faith to go off in one phase does it carry over to the next phase? If you fail an act of faith does that mean you cannot try again in another phase? I don’t have the answers, but what do you think?

Random tidbits
All Faith generating units get +6 invul save
All units that can get transports get Immolators or Rhinos
Assassins gone (Death Cult still in)
Wargear with the same names as GK wargear stay and get changed over. (e.g. Psybolt Ammo)
Karamazov gone
Priests in, pretty much same as before.
No change to the general Bolter, Melta, Flame concept of the Sisters

Specifics
Sisters have about 5 HQ choices including Special

Characters
St. Celestine: Same price as a Grand Master you get 2+/+4 saves, WS/BS 7 Jump Pack, Fleet, Power Weapons always wounds on 4+ Has the power to come back like GK Thawn if killed.

Confessor: Takes the slot of the old Inquisitors. Cheap HQ (Warboss). Can create a henchman band using most of the henchman found in the GK codex. What makes the Confessor extra deadly is the ability for it to re-roll hits and wounds for her and the squad. This is the translation of the rumor matrix. So think for one second about her and the Death Cult together?

Repentia: Cheaper close to SM cost. FNP, Rage, Fearless, 6+ invul, no transports

Battle Sister Squad: Cheaper 10-20 unit size (no combat squads), but has access to Immolators which begs the question… Immolators either get increased transport capacity or Sisters break the rules concerning model count and buying transports. Multiple acts of faith.

Exocists: Pretty much same as before.