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Just Dave wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they first predict the Sisters WD Codex anyway?
Didn't they also provide a lot of solid info for Grey Knights?

Dice Like Thunder (before they became The Eternal Warriors) first reported on the WD update well over a year ago.

BoK on facebook has said more sister's rumours in 1 hour!

Heh. Rumors of more rumors.

What is not in the Codex

Repressors
Arbites

The Units (some more information than others)

Canoness: Here is my special shout out to the Canoness: you are terrible. I mean grossly underpowered. Now this is going to sound like a cop-op, but I am not going into details because my hope is that she will be changed before release. It just sounds and looks like she is an unfinished product. She gets her own retinue that cannot do anything; she starts out cheap, but her upgrades are expensive and lame when you compare to everything else. So here is hoping to GW getting her fixed.

Repentia: Forgot to mention they have fleet

Celastians: Cheaper than a Marine, but not really anything going for them (that I know of)… extra attack. Re-roll hits for act of faith

Sister Battle Squad: Can still get a Heavy Flamer

Shraphim: They are pretty amazing. Cheaper than a Space Marine you get a Jump Packing, Hit and Running, and an act of faith that has them re-rolling wounds. You can also upgrade them to run with double hand flamers and melta pistols. They act both as an extra close combat weapon and become assault 2 instead of being twin-linked. So that means Assault 2 melta weapons.

Dominion Squads: Still get 4 special weapons. Act of Faith twin-linked.

Retributor Squads: Pretty fantastic. CHEAP! Talking under Long Fang cheap to fully kit out. Expect the return of the Heavy Bolter with these. Act of Faith is Rending.

Penitent Engines: Again fantastic. Same statline (Walker). No Scout or Infiltrate. Cheaper and can be a squadron aka 9 Engines. They still get the 1D6 attacks, but any wounds generate additional attacks (don’t know if they work like Blood Talons). 6+ Invul (don’t know if they generate faith)

pretre wrote:Heh. Rumors of more rumors.

No What I said was fact just look at facebook. Besides which Mad Cow has shown the second wave of BoK sister rumours.

I dunno those rumors don't sound so great.

I guess the cheapness of the Seraphim is their selling point since re-rolling wounds from a strength 3, non powerweapon unit isn't really that impressive. Melta weapons that are only melta from 3" away are alright when they are on jump infantry but not what I'd call spectacular.

Not sure what's so fantastic about Retributors. They are still only heavy bolters and could already get the rending special faith ability.

Likewise penitent engines sound almost exactly the same but cheaper. Generating extra attacks is cool, but the problem with them was that they never made it across the table, not that they couldn't wreck things once they got there. Not sure how that is fantastic... Maybe the made it into fast attack instead of being forgotten in the heavy slot.

Basically it seems like everything is what we already are using (or crappier in the case of the Canoness) but cheaper. Whoopee....

It seems the acts of faith are pretty much gone as we knew them. No more 3++ invulnerable, +2S, +2I or AP1. He doesn't mention what the Battle Sisters' act is, unfortunately.

Celestians with 2 meltaguns in Immolators will remain the up-close tank-hunting unit of choice with 2 meltaguns that they can now re-roll hits on. Without the 3++ act of faith, they will be a suicide unit however. Thankfully, Seraphim may shore that up with assault 2 melta pistols, and with the potential of two solid melee units in the form of Confessors+Death Cultists/Arcos may have more play on the field. Retributor squads with 4 rending heavy bolters is cute (although nothing new), but I'm not sure if they are cute enough to take fewer exorcists since the sisters have no other long range anti-transport capability. Penitent engines are still AV10 with no scout or infiltrate? Lulz.

Granted, these are bare-bone rumors, but sounds super lame so far. No repressors? Gah... I'm sure all the Sisters players would have preferred to just wait for a proper book. When does this WD issue come out again?

Omegus wrote:When does this WD issue come out again?

August for the fluff and bestiary, and then I think september for the actual rules.

Mar wrote:BoK on facebook has said more sister's rumours in 1 hour!

Oh? care to post it here when you see them so we can all take a look?

Scarey Nerd wrote:

Omegus wrote:When does this WD issue come out again?

August for the fluff and bestiary, and then I think september for the actual rules.

wait. wouldnt it be july? or was that pic of the back cover from july?

Marthike wrote:

Mar wrote:BoK on facebook has said more sister's rumours in 1 hour!

Oh? care to post it here when you see them so we can all take a look?

Mad Cow posted the rumours a post or 2 after I said that =)

I'm honestly curious what the Retributors are bringing to the table that makes the guy freak out (and compare them to Long Fangs of all things). Is a slightly cheaper model going to make a lackluster heavy 3 S5 weapon any better?

Ixquic wrote:I'm honestly curious what the Retributors are bringing to the table that makes the guy freak out (and compare them to Long Fangs of all things). Is a slightly cheaper model going to make a lackluster heavy 3 S5 weapon any better?

S5 Heavy 3 Rending

Well, the rending is not guaranteed until we know exactly how faith works. Does each unit only get one act of faith? Do they get to roll D6 dice each turn and hope one of them is 5+? And even with rending, you're still hoping to get a 6 to penetrate Rhinos, and against AV12 you need a 6 followed by a 3 on a d3. Not impressive. Unless there is something else completely amazing about them, triple exorcists will remain a staple of competitive Sisters lists.

As for cost, currently a 5-girl squad of Retributors with a sisters superior and 4 heavy bolters is 129 points, which is already less than Long Fangs. It depends I guess on what "cheaper unit costs" means for models that are currently 11 points each.

Actually, when you ran nine penitent engines, typically three would make it across the field, and they're pretty good once they're there. They were even faster in 5th, because they got 6+d6 inthe move phase, and then ran another d6.

If the rumours I saw (units of 9?!) are true, I'd be running 2 exorcists and 9 engines in a heartbeat.

pretre wrote:

Ixquic wrote:I'm honestly curious what the Retributors are bringing to the table that makes the guy freak out (and compare them to Long Fangs of all things). Is a slightly cheaper model going to make a lackluster heavy 3 S5 weapon any better?

S5 Heavy 3 Rending

They can get most of the benefits of that now with the current faith powers and the extra bonus to armor penetration isn't super amazing on strength 5.

Redbeard wrote:Actually, when you ran nine penitent engines, typically three would make it across the field, and they're pretty good once they're there. They were even faster in 5th, because they got 6+d6 inthe move phase, and then ran another d6.

If the rumours I saw (units of 9?!) are true, I'd be running 2 exorcists and 9 engines in a heartbeat.

Making a walker unit with expensive models useful by requiring you to buy 9 of them to get less than half of them into combat is certainly a mixed blessing.

No, squadrons are limited to 3. The number 9 is in reference if you take three squadrons of three.

kenzosan wrote:wait. wouldnt it be july? or was that pic of the back cover from july?

That pic was from the back cover of July.

Omegus wrote:No, squadrons are limited to 3. The number 9 is in reference if you take three squadrons of three.

Then they are exactly the same only with the ability to generate extra attacks? I reiterate my "whoopee."

Omegus wrote:Well, the rending is not guaranteed until we know exactly how faith works. Does each unit only get one act of faith? Do they get to roll D6 dice each turn and hope one of them is 5+? And even with rending, you're still hoping to get a 6 to penetrate Rhinos, and against AV12 you need a 6 followed by a 3 on a d3. Not impressive. Unless there is something else completely amazing about them, triple exorcists will remain a staple of competitive Sisters lists.

No argument that exorcists are awesome.

But... Say 5 Girls, 15 shots, hitting on 4's is 10. 1.66 rends.
0 glances and 1.66 Pens against AV11,
.55 glances and .55 pens vs Armor 12,
.28 glances and .28 pens vs AV13
.28 glances vs AV14.
If they keep the AP1 thing then they pop on a 4+ once they pen or on a 6 if they glance. So heavy bolters that could pop a LR. lol

BTW, Exorcists are 3.5 shots, hitting on 4's for 2.33 hits.
.38 Glance and 1.17 Pens vs AV11
.38 Glance and .78 pens vs Armor 12
.38 glance and .38 pen vs AV13
.38 glance vs AV14

So actually, these theoretical HB Retributors are pretty decent with rending.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ixquic wrote:I guess the cheapness of the Seraphim is their selling point since re-rolling wounds from a strength 3, non powerweapon unit isn't really that impressive. Melta weapons that are only melta from 3" away are alright when they are on jump infantry but not what I'd call spectacular.

Shooting rerolls wounds. Seraphim have never been H2H monsters.

Not sure what's so fantastic about Retributors. They are still only heavy bolters and could already get the rending special faith ability.

Not rending, AP1.

Eumerin wrote:

kenzosan wrote:wait. wouldnt it be july? or was that pic of the back cover from july?

That pic was from the back cover of July.

should clarify: is the "july" issue already on shelves? so the "august" issue would release in july or august?

I assumed it was HtH since it was listed after hit and run. If it is shooting (which would make sense) that does make them better when combined with flamers.

Not rending, AP1.

AP1 is half of rending. While the bonus to armor penetration is certainly better it's not something I would consider "fantastically" better than before.

kenzosan wrote:

Eumerin wrote:

kenzosan wrote:wait. wouldnt it be july? or was that pic of the back cover from july?

That pic was from the back cover of July.

should clarify: is the "july" issue already on shelves? so the "august" issue would release in july or august?

The pic is from a leaked copy of the July issue, its not on shelves yet. The August issue will hit in August.

MadCowCrazy wrote:What is not in the Codex

Repressors
Arbites

The Units (some more information than others)

Canoness: Here is my special shout out to the Canoness: you are terrible. I mean grossly underpowered. Now this is going to sound like a cop-op, but I am not going into details because my hope is that she will be changed before release. It just sounds and looks like she is an unfinished product. She gets her own retinue that cannot do anything; she starts out cheap, but her upgrades are expensive and lame when you compare to everything else. So here is hoping to GW getting her fixed.

Repentia: Forgot to mention they have fleet

Celastians: Cheaper than a Marine, but not really anything going for them (that I know of)… extra attack. Re-roll hits for act of faith

Sister Battle Squad: Can still get a Heavy Flamer

Shraphim: They are pretty amazing. Cheaper than a Space Marine you get a Jump Packing, Hit and Running, and an act of faith that has them re-rolling wounds. You can also upgrade them to run with double hand flamers and melta pistols. They act both as an extra close combat weapon and become assault 2 instead of being twin-linked. So that means Assault 2 melta weapons.

Dominion Squads: Still get 4 special weapons. Act of Faith twin-linked.

Retributor Squads: Pretty fantastic. CHEAP! Talking under Long Fang cheap to fully kit out. Expect the return of the Heavy Bolter with these. Act of Faith is Rending.

Penitent Engines: Again fantastic. Same statline (Walker). No Scout or Infiltrate. Cheaper and can be a squadron aka 9 Engines. They still get the 1D6 attacks, but any wounds generate additional attacks (don’t know if they work like Blood Talons). 6+ Invul (don’t know if they generate faith)

Brrr, the only thing that looks good in there is the Dominions, and maybe Celestians (isn't rerolling hits and twin-linking the same thing???).

Retributors... Sisters don't need more anti-infantry. Rending Heavy bolters are not all that exciting. Its not the points cost that make me wary about them, its the slot needed. If Retributors can take Heavy Flamers I'll consider them, 4 rending Heavy flamers is awesome, 4 Heavy bolters, not so much.

Seraphim, cheaper, might be decent. Lacking the 3++ faith and Book sort of gets rid of the current point of taking them though. It'll depend on the points cost.

Repentia... doesn't really matter if they have fleet, I'm still not taking a foot based, T3, reliant on FNP unit that can't get in a transport.

Penitents... I'm not seeing why they're fantastic unless they're half the cost as they are currently. We can already take 9, statline is unchanged (open topped walker?), and they get a 6+ invuln ( ).

Cannoness... meh I usually only brought one for the retinue and to generate faith. But all thats different now.

Could use more info on Basic sister squads, we've had no real info on them yet.


Basically, the Faith powers seem pretty pathetic so far, now with less options.

This is basically the same as the Warriors of Chaos WD codex. An incredibly lackluster bare-bones deal to get you by since they don't want the older one legal anymore, but don't want people buying stuff they won't be able to use (demons, beastmen, etc).

Now if this is like that and we get a real book in half a year it's perfectly acceptable. However I'm not understanding the excitement of the rumors guy for what amounts to some nerfs, a few buffs and cheaper units. It's just not amazing at all. The penitent engine one is the most baffling; "They are fantastic, better and identical to how they are now!!" What??

MadCowCrazy wrote:Canoness: Here is my special shout out to the Canoness: you are terrible. I mean grossly underpowered. Now this is going to sound like a cop-op, but I am not going into details because my hope is that she will be changed before release. It just sounds and looks like she is an unfinished product. She gets her own retinue that cannot do anything; she starts out cheap, but her upgrades are expensive and lame when you compare to everything else. So here is hoping to GW getting her fixed.

I'm pretty certain there's still a 3 month lead time on WD, meaning that it is too late to fix the Canoness - unless BoK saw an early version of her rules, not the final set that will be printed.

pretre wrote:

Omegus wrote:Well, the rending is not guaranteed until we know exactly how faith works. Does each unit only get one act of faith? Do they get to roll D6 dice each turn and hope one of them is 5+? And even with rending, you're still hoping to get a 6 to penetrate Rhinos, and against AV12 you need a 6 followed by a 3 on a d3. Not impressive. Unless there is something else completely amazing about them, triple exorcists will remain a staple of competitive Sisters lists.

No argument that exorcists are awesome.

But... Say 5 Girls, 15 shots, hitting on 4's is 10. 1.66 rends.
0 glances and 1.66 Pens against AV11,
.55 glances and .55 pens vs Armor 12,
.28 glances and .28 pens vs AV13
.28 glances vs AV14.
If they keep the AP1 thing then they pop on a 4+ once they pen or on a 6 if they glance. So heavy bolters that could pop a LR. lol

BTW, Exorcists are 3.5 shots, hitting on 4's for 2.33 hits.
.38 Glance and 1.17 Pens vs AV11
.38 Glance and .78 pens vs Armor 12
.38 glance and .38 pen vs AV13
.38 glance vs AV14

So actually, these theoretical HB Retributors are pretty decent with rending.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ixquic wrote:I guess the cheapness of the Seraphim is their selling point since re-rolling wounds from a strength 3, non powerweapon unit isn't really that impressive. Melta weapons that are only melta from 3" away are alright when they are on jump infantry but not what I'd call spectacular.

Shooting rerolls wounds. Seraphim have never been H2H monsters.

Not sure what's so fantastic about Retributors. They are still only heavy bolters and could already get the rending special faith ability.

Not rending, AP1.

Am i missing something? I have my dex right in front of me and it lists sisters' BS as 4, which hits on 3s.

androcles138 wrote:
Am i missing something? I have my dex right in front of me and it lists sisters' BS as 4, which hits on 3s.

The math is right so I assume he means with BS 4, 10 out of 15 will hit and it was just a typo.

androcles138 wrote:
Am i missing something? I have my dex right in front of me and it lists sisters' BS as 4, which hits on 3s.

No, you're right. I mistyped, but my math was still right. 2/3 hit.

edit: Ninja'd by Ix.

Ixquic wrote:Now if this is like that and we get a real book in half a year it's perfectly acceptable.

I strongly doubt it. I'm pretty confident at this point that we're not going to be seeing a new codex until after 6th edition comes out, which means 2013 at the earliest.